Coronavirus outbreak

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

To be fair, I'm not sure if these people were ever thinking rationally. 

except, the concern isn't coming from social media, or the media etc, as those who are shrugging this off want tobelieve.  This is coming from the WHO, from the CDC, from infectious disease experts across the entire planet.  Do people really believe a country like Italy would risk completely shutting down, a country as huge as India closing themselves off to tourists, professional sports teams losing billions of dollars because of media hype?

 

These extreme measures are being taken at the recommendations of the WHO, CDC etc etc, not twitter and facebook

[stawns]

1 minute ago, J-Dizzle said:

I legitimately purposefully ignore the news - especially when everyone is so rational when something like covid rears its ugly head - what’s causing the system in Italy to collapse? 

their health care system is collapsing because people are overwhelming ER's and ICU's to the point that they are turning infected people away because they are less "saveable" than others.  Now their Dr's and nurses are becoming infected........when they are unable to perform their duties, it's game over for an awful lot of people there.

[nuckin_futz]

Dear Covid-19,

 

   If you could please spare the elderly and those with compromised immune systems and direct your ire towards the deniers and idiots among us that would be great.

 

Regards,

Futz

[Canadian]

5 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

I'm not sure I'd go that far (depending on who you are blaming). If medical professionals warned about it, yet nobody took any preventative measures, I'm not that surprised that they would be recommending more drastic solutions. The call for drastic solutions to me is more about reducing the burden on the health care system than it is about the prevention of deaths. 

But so intertwined - if numbers spread like crazy (which they likely will), then the number of patients that can be effectively treated is limited based on healthcare system capacity, and that's not even including all the patients who would miss out on treatments for other things. In Wuhan (where I live), they had to built a lot of temporary hospitals because there were no beds, all-hands-on-deck from health care professionals, import oxygen-therapy respirators (which not all hospitals had), etc. Obviously the density in China is much higher than in N.A., but there's still all of the components for this to spread significantly if it's not taken seriously.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Canadian

[-SN-]

Just now, nuckin_futz said:

Dear Covid-19,

 

   If you could please spare the elderly and those with compromised immune systems and direct your ire towards the deniers and idiots among us that would be great.

 

Regards,

Futz

Why wish harm on anyone? This is a time to work together, not hope that certain groups are killed for your benefit. Even as a joke it's not really the time. 

[Down by the River]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

except, the concern isn't coming from social media, or the media etc, as those who are shrugging this off want tobelieve.  This is coming from the WHO, from the CDC, from infectious disease experts across the entire planet.  Do people really believe a country like Italy would risk completely shutting down, a country as huge as India closing themselves off to tourists, professional sports teams losing billions of dollars because of media hype?

 

These extreme measures are being taken at the recommendations of the WHO, CDC etc etc, not twitter and facebook

I was referring moreso to the people fighting over toilet paper... not the ones concerned about the actual transmission of the virus. 

[nuckin_futz]

1 minute ago, StealthNuck said:

Why wish harm on anyone? This is a time to work together, not hope that certain groups are killed for your benefit. Even as a joke it's not really the time. 

 Got the best of me. This is a frustrating thread to read.

[-SN-]

Just now, nuckin_futz said:

 Got the best of me. This is a frustrating thread to read.

Fair enough. We'll try to keep it from going too far down that hole (ty Temp earlier). 

[Petey40]

New report coming out that the virus can live in air up to 3 hours and on surfaces for up to 3 days. 
 

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487110-tests-indicate-coronavirus-can-survive-in-the-air 

 

Italy reports 200 more deaths in 24 hours for a total of 887 deaths and 10000 total confirmed cases. https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487124-italy-confirms-nearly-200-people-died-from-coronavirus-in-24-hours-report. 

[J-Dizzle]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

except, the concern isn't coming from social media, or the media etc, as those who are shrugging this off want tobelieve.  This is coming from the WHO, from the CDC, from infectious disease experts across the entire planet.  Do people really believe a country like Italy would risk completely shutting down, a country as huge as India closing themselves off to tourists, professional sports teams losing billions of dollars because of media hype?

 

These extreme measures are being taken at the recommendations of the WHO, CDC etc etc, not twitter and facebook

Legitimate question.... WHO’s website shows about 10,000 cases in Italy.... that’s A LOT but at the same time seems a little low to be shutting down hospitals??? 

[Muscatel Marauder]

“After much thought about whether and what to write about what is happening to us, I felt that silence was not responsible,” Macchini wrote in his post, as translated by Dr. Silvia Stringhini, an epidemiologist and researcher at the Geneva University’s Institute of Global Health.

“I will therefore try to convey to people far from our reality what we are living in Bergamo in these days of Covid-19 pandemic. I understand the need not to create panic, but when the message of the dangerousness of what is happening does not reach people I shudder,” he said.

In Bergamo, a city of about 122,000 some 30 miles northeast of Milan, 1,245 people have been diagnosed by the coronavirus in one of the country’s worst affected areas.

“I myself watched with some amazement the reorganization of the entire hospital in the past week, when our current enemy was still in the shadows: the wards slowly ’emptied,’ elective activities were interrupted,” he continued in the chilling post, which was shared more than 29,000 times.

“All this rapid transformation brought an atmosphere of silence and surreal emptiness to the corridors of the hospital that we did not yet understand, waiting for a war that was yet to begin and that many (including me) were not so sure would ever come with such ferocity,” he said.

“I still remember my night call a week ago when I was waiting for the results of a swab. When I think about it, my anxiety over one possible case seems almost ridiculous and unjustified, now that I’ve seen what’s happening. Well, the situation now is dramatic to say the least,” Macchini added.

A traveler wears a mask as he waits inside Rome’s Termini train station.AP

“The war has literally exploded and battles are uninterrupted day and night. But now that need for beds has arrived in all its drama. One after the other the departments that had been emptied fill up at an impressive pace.

“The boards with the names of the patients, of different colors depending on the operating unit, are now all red and instead of surgery you see the diagnosis, which is always the damned same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia.”

The doctor urged people not to describe COVID-19 as a bad case of the flu.

“Now, explain to me which flu virus causes such a rapid drama. … And while there are still people who boast of not being afraid by ignoring directions, protesting because their normal routine is ‘temporarily’ put in crisis, the epidemiological disaster is taking place,” he said.

“And there are no more surgeons, urologists, orthopedists, we are only doctors who suddenly become part of a single team to face this tsunami that has overwhelmed us.

“Cases are multiplying, we arrive at a rate of 15-20 admissions per day all for the same reason. The results of the swabs now come one after the other: positive, positive, positive. Suddenly the E.R. is collapsing.”

Describing every available ventilator as “gold,” Macchini said the doctors and nurses working at his side are exhausted.

“I saw the tiredness on faces that didn’t know what it was despite the already exhausting workloads they had. I saw a solidarity of all of us who never failed to go to our internist colleagues to ask, ‘What can I do for you now?’

“Doctors who move beds and transfer patients, who administer therapies instead of nurses. Nurses with tears in their eyes because we can’t save everyone, and the vital parameters of several patients at the same time reveal an already marked destiny.

“There are no more shifts, no more hours. Social life is suspended for us. We no longer see our families for fear of infecting them. Some of us have already become infected despite the protocols,” he said.

Macchini noted that some of his colleagues have become infected themselves and then infected their relatives who “are already struggling between life and death.”

“So be patient, you can’t go to the theater, museums or the gym. Try to have pity on the myriad of old people you could exterminate,” he said.

“I finish by saying that I really don’t understand this war on panic. The only reason I see is mask shortages, but there’s no mask on sale anymore. We don’t have a lot of studies, but is panic really worse than neglect and carelessness during an epidemic of this sort?”

[Hectic]

I really don't understand what's going on here. this is absolutely ridiculous. people are following the media frenzy and this is getting a bit out of hand. 

 

is cancelling the NBA season going to stop the spread of the virus? No, it's a virus, it's going to spread anyways. I don't think putting life on pause because of a virus makes any sense - people who are more susceptible can make that decision for themselves, but to me this just shows how people will just follow whatever information they head in the news and absolutely lose their minds. 

 

I can see why limiting the spread of the virus is something that people should be doing, for all diseases, but for this to be overblown to the point of actually cancelling major sports leagues and to the point where the stock market is taking a huge hit and toilet paper is comically in demand.. I'm just having a hard time understanding how the majority of our society today is responding to this the way that they are. 

[Glug Datt]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

their health care system is collapsing because people are overwhelming ER's and ICU's to the point that they are turning infected people away because they are less "saveable" than others.  Now their Dr's and nurses are becoming infected........when they are unable to perform their duties, it's game over for an awful lot of people there.

that's friggin brutal.. I thought most infected people could self isolate & ride it out at home.. does every patient in Italy actually need to be in a hospital? what happens if someone comes in with a legit problem (heart attack, industrial accident)? 

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, Hectic said:

I really don't understand what's going on here. this is absolutely ridiculous. people are following the media frenzy and this is getting a bit out of hand. 

 

is cancelling the NBA season going to stop the spread of the virus? No, it's a virus, it's going to spread anyways. I don't think putting life on pause because of a virus makes any sense - people who are more susceptible can make that decision for themselves, but to me this just shows how people will just follow whatever information they head in the news and absolutely lose their minds. 

 

I can see why limiting the spread of the virus is something that people should be doing, for all diseases, but for this to be overblown to the point of actually cancelling major sports leagues and to the point where the stock market is taking a huge hit and toilet paper is comically in demand.. I'm just having a hard time understanding how the majority of our society today is responding to this the way that they are. 

The idea is to slow the spread of the virus so our hospitals can have some hope of keeping up.

[Petey40]

2 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

Legitimate question.... WHO’s website shows about 10,000 cases in Italy.... that’s A LOT but at the same time seems a little low to be shutting down hospitals??? 

Usually hospitals run fairly close to capacity on an everyday basis combating all the other illnesses that are happening. So when you suddenly get thousands more every 2 days needing treatment or diagnoses you simply don’t have the resources or beds or staff to handle such a drastic increase in the sick. 

[Cerridwen]

11 minutes ago, Petey40 said:

New report coming out that the virus can live in air up to 3 hours and on surfaces for up to 3 days. 
 

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487110-tests-indicate-coronavirus-can-survive-in-the-air 

 

Italy reports 200 more deaths in 24 hours for a total of 887 deaths and 10000 total confirmed cases. https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487124-italy-confirms-nearly-200-people-died-from-coronavirus-in-24-hours-report. 

It's an ugly one. For the nay-sayers and pooh-pooers and minimizers....imagine how 200 bodies look all lined up in tidy rows wrapped in sheets awaiting burial. 200 people A DAY.... start doing the math...

Edited March 12, 2020 by Cerridwen

[Cerridwen]

6 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

Legitimate question.... WHO’s website shows about 10,000 cases in Italy.... that’s A LOT but at the same time seems a little low to be shutting down hospitals??? 

The hospitals are overwhelmed with patients. They cannot treat any more because of lack of equipment and room. Doctors and nurses are getting sick and burnt out.Doctors are having to triage who to treat and who not. Elderly people are being turned away because there are not enough respirators or staff to look after people. Who do you save? The young..........or the old????

NOBODY should ever have to make that sort of decision.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Cerridwen

[-SN-]

5 minutes ago, Hectic said:

I really don't understand what's going on here. this is absolutely ridiculous. people are following the media frenzy and this is getting a bit out of hand. 

 

is cancelling the NBA season going to stop the spread of the virus? No, it's a virus, it's going to spread anyways. I don't think putting life on pause because of a virus makes any sense - people who are more susceptible can make that decision for themselves, but to me this just shows how people will just follow whatever information they head in the news and absolutely lose their minds. 

 

I can see why limiting the spread of the virus is something that people should be doing, for all diseases, but for this to be overblown to the point of actually cancelling major sports leagues and to the point where the stock market is taking a huge hit and toilet paper is comically in demand.. I'm just having a hard time understanding how the majority of our society today is responding to this the way that they are. 

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/health-professionals/public-health-measures-mitigate-covid-19.html

[Petey40]

1 minute ago, Cerridwen said:

It's an ugly one. For the nay-sayers and pooh-pooers and minimizers....imagine how 200 bodies looks all lined up wrapped in sheets awaiting burial. 200 people A DAY.... start doing the math...

Normalcy bias. As described by Wikipedia is a tendency for people to believe that things will always function the way they normally have functioned and therefore to underestimate both the likelihood of a disaster and its possible effects. This may result in situations where people fail to adequately prepare themselves for disasters, and on a larger scale, the failure of governments to include the populace in its disaster preparations. About 70% of people reportedly display normalcy bias during a disaster.^[1]

[J-Dizzle]

4 minutes ago, Cerridwen said:

The hospitals are overwhelmed with patients. They cannot treat anymore because of lack of equipment and room. Doctors and nurses are getting sick and burnt out.

Fair.... so why is Italy’s rate of death showing around 8% when the overall rate is .03?  Again, this is a legitimate question I’m actually curious.... seems like there has to be some extenuating circumstances or something missing? 
 

sorry, 3% not .03. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by J-Dizzle