Coronavirus outbreak

[-DLC-]

14 minutes ago, Hectic said:

Everyone is going to have their arguments for or against the vaccine, and we have to respect that. It's a new vaccine with limited data, and there's no arguing that. So let people decide for themselves if they want to get it or not. 

 

What we can't be OK with, however, is people comparing COVID to polio like you just did. I mean come on.. 

I agree with stawns.

 

People cannot decide for themselves...there are public health orders in place and going against them puts us at risk.  

 

If people get it, they also take up space in hospital beds and we ALL need to try to avoid that.  Our nurses and doctors are PLEADING with the public...so it's selfish to think "I can do what I want".  Only if you sign on the dotted line saying you'll deal with the illness at home and not call on services to help you get through it.

 

If I feel like I could drive drunk that doesn't mean I should....the decisions that endanger others are NOT our own to make.  Thankfully.

[Hectic]

5 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I agree with stawns.

 

People cannot decide for themselves...there are public health orders in place and going against them puts us at risk.  

 

If people get it, they also take up space in hospital beds and we ALL need to try to avoid that.  Our nurses and doctors are PLEADING with the public...so it's selfish to think "I can do what I want".  Only if you sign on the dotted line saying you'll deal with the illness at home and not call on services to help you get through it.

 

If I feel like I could drive drunk that doesn't mean I should....the decisions that endanger others are NOT our own to make.  Thankfully.

If this was smallpox, or polio, or measles, I'd be first in line to get the vaccine. 100%. 

 

But this is COVID. Media attention and the impact on our lives has thrown this way out of proportion. Half of all people who have died are over the age of 85. The average life expectancy in Canada is 82.5. 

 

Since when has the media ever announced the deaths due to any cause in a daily update? If people were to hear about the number of influenza cases/deaths daily I'm sure there would be a different perception of this as well. I mean how many people who never get the flu vaccine are all of a sudden the first people to advocate for the COVID vaccine? How did we get here? 

 

I'll express my vaccine-related concerns below (note that I get the flu vaccine every year.. I actually gave over 1500 of them in 2020 too!). I feel these are pretty valid, so please be respectful in your response for/against my case here: 

 

- I have anaphylactic food allergies. What's to say I don't get a reaction from this vaccine? I get the flu vaccine every year, but this is a different type of vaccine. And what's the risk/benefit for me here? Again, COVID isn't polio or smallpox. 

- Fastest vaccine to come to market, and liabilities waived for the manufacturers if something goes horribly wrong. 

- 95% effective? Well, this is based on 2 months of data. Also, this is based on people living in a quarantined world, not the world I plan to live in once this is all over. So in terms of efficacy, we can't say it's effective as initial reports - confounding variables. 

- Argument about long term COVID effects. Well the same goes for long term vaccine effects, no? Limited data both ways. 

 

Look, I want to get my life back to normal just like everyone else does. But what has happened is a complete disregard for critical thinking - opinions like mine are completely dismissed and taken as uneducated, or irrational, or just plain stupid. For clarity, I don't participate in any crazy anti-mask rallies, I wear a mask where it's required, and New Years is my favourite time of year to have a party and I'm doing a 1-1 date night with the lady. So actions speak louder than words - please consider this before a condescending or aggressive reply to this message. 

 

All in all, I'm just really choked about everything that's happened, and the reaction the public has had to it, because it is going to take forever for us to ever get back to a world where we can watch a Canucks game with a packed stadium, no masks, and people not being afraid to hug/high five random fans. I can see this never happening again in our generation! And that's just really, really sad. 

[-DLC-]

2 minutes ago, Hectic said:

If this was smallpox, or polio, or measles, I'd be first in line to get the vaccine. 100%. 

 

But this is COVID. Media attention and the impact on our lives has thrown this way out of proportion.

I stopped reading here.

 

And I urge everyone to.

[kesler_sedins]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7544950/mpp-randy-hillier-posts-a-photo-of-15-people-in-one-room-celebrating-christmas/?utm_source=GlobalBC&utm_medium=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR25c7zNjyEXhjco-J8kUlSouDDJO444BWHQFKbIjtK31_OMslRxbGvlHvI

MPP Randy Hillier had an Xmas party of 15 people...

Quote

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by kesler_sedins
Add image

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Hectic said:

If this was smallpox, or polio, or measles, I'd be first in line to get the vaccine. 100%. 

 

But this is COVID. Media attention and the impact on our lives has thrown this way out of proportion. Half of all people who have died are over the age of 85. The average life expectancy in Canada is 82.5. 

 

Since when has the media ever announced the deaths due to any cause in a daily update? If people were to hear about the number of influenza cases/deaths daily I'm sure there would be a different perception of this as well. I mean how many people who never get the flu vaccine are all of a sudden the first people to advocate for the COVID vaccine? How did we get here? 

 

I'll express my vaccine-related concerns below (note that I get the flu vaccine every year.. I actually gave over 1500 of them in 2020 too!). I feel these are pretty valid, so please be respectful in your response for/against my case here: 

 

- I have anaphylactic food allergies. What's to say I don't get a reaction from this vaccine? I get the flu vaccine every year, but this is a different type of vaccine. And what's the risk/benefit for me here? Again, COVID isn't polio or smallpox. 

- Fastest vaccine to come to market, and liabilities waived for the manufacturers if something goes horribly wrong. 

- 95% effective? Well, this is based on 2 months of data. Also, this is based on people living in a quarantined world, not the world I plan to live in once this is all over. So in terms of efficacy, we can't say it's effective as initial reports - confounding variables. 

- Argument about long term COVID effects. Well the same goes for long term vaccine effects, no? Limited data both ways. 

 

Look, I want to get my life back to normal just like everyone else does. But what has happened is a complete disregard for critical thinking - opinions like mine are completely dismissed and taken as uneducated, or irrational, or just plain stupid. For clarity, I don't participate in any crazy anti-mask rallies, I wear a mask where it's required, and New Years is my favourite time of year to have a party and I'm doing a 1-1 date night with the lady. So actions speak louder than words - please consider this before a condescending or aggressive reply to this message. 

 

All in all, I'm just really choked about everything that's happened, and the reaction the public has had to it, because it is going to take forever for us to ever get back to a world where we can watch a Canucks game with a packed stadium, no masks, and people not being afraid to hug/high five random fans. I can see this never happening again in our generation! And that's just really, really sad. 

They've already said people with anaphylaxis allergies shouldn't get it, so that's a moot point.  Everyone else should be getting it.

 

We're one year onto Covid and it's proven itself to be highly infectious and deadly.  If we let it just hang around and it mutates onto a more lethal form, then what?  Nip this in the bud before it gets completely out of control

 

[-SN-]

6 minutes ago, Hectic said:

But this is COVID. Media attention and the impact on our lives has thrown this way out of proportion. Half of all people who have died are over the age of 85. The average life expectancy in Canada is 82.5. 

This is a bit more cold-hearted than I would expect from you. A bit. 

[-DLC-]

20 minutes ago, Hectic said:

If this was smallpox, or polio, or measles, I'd be first in line to get the vaccine. 100%. 

 

But this is COVID. Media attention and the impact on our lives has thrown this way out of proportion. Half of all people who have died are over the age of 85. The average life expectancy in Canada is 82.5. 

 

Since when has the media ever announced the deaths due to any cause in a daily update? If people were to hear about the number of influenza cases/deaths daily I'm sure there would be a different perception of this as well. I mean how many people who never get the flu vaccine are all of a sudden the first people to advocate for the COVID vaccine? How did we get here? 

 

I'll express my vaccine-related concerns below (note that I get the flu vaccine every year.. I actually gave over 1500 of them in 2020 too!). I feel these are pretty valid, so please be respectful in your response for/against my case here: 

 

- I have anaphylactic food allergies. What's to say I don't get a reaction from this vaccine? I get the flu vaccine every year, but this is a different type of vaccine. And what's the risk/benefit for me here? Again, COVID isn't polio or smallpox. 

- Fastest vaccine to come to market, and liabilities waived for the manufacturers if something goes horribly wrong. 

- 95% effective? Well, this is based on 2 months of data. Also, this is based on people living in a quarantined world, not the world I plan to live in once this is all over. So in terms of efficacy, we can't say it's effective as initial reports - confounding variables. 

- Argument about long term COVID effects. Well the same goes for long term vaccine effects, no? Limited data both ways. 

 

Look, I want to get my life back to normal just like everyone else does. But what has happened is a complete disregard for critical thinking - opinions like mine are completely dismissed and taken as uneducated, or irrational, or just plain stupid. For clarity, I don't participate in any crazy anti-mask rallies, I wear a mask where it's required, and New Years is my favourite time of year to have a party and I'm doing a 1-1 date night with the lady. So actions speak louder than words - please consider this before a condescending or aggressive reply to this message. 

 

All in all, I'm just really choked about everything that's happened, and the reaction the public has had to it, because it is going to take forever for us to ever get back to a world where we can watch a Canucks game with a packed stadium, no masks, and people not being afraid to hug/high five random fans. I can see this never happening again in our generation! And that's just really, really sad. 

OK, took a deep breath, regrouped and read.  

I have a Dad I'm trying to protect and I get really upset when people "want to get back to normal" and watching games in person when others are just trying to ... make sure they live through it.  It seems a little selfish NOT to consider that.  He's battled cancer and we're doing everything in our power to make sure HE gets to see another game.  Not sure why your wanting to do so is any more important than his?

 

The part where age was mentioned?  Human beings aren't defined by a number.  And your life is no more valuable or important than theirs.  Maybe even less so, if they're compassionate, caring, empathetic individuals and your concern is that you like to have a party at New Years and are feeling inconvenienced in all of this.  If that sounds cold and brash well, sorry?

 

We will get back to normal faster if everyone does what is needed.   Sure...questioning things is good.  But I believe science and health officials and not sure why you are more credible?  

 

I've sacrificed a whole lot (too) but it's for good reason.  Until we do see this thing through, expect that most aren't going to agree with you because it undermines everything we are doing.  The vaccine is our glimpse of light at the end of this tunnel and to dismiss it and expect this to just go away is a little far fetched.  

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Me_ said:

Man...Willie Mitchell sure aged badly since his Canucks playing days..

[Gurn]

9-10 months in.

Still getting false info and false equivalence from posters and people out in the 'real' world.

 

I have a really smart cat. That cat has not gotten any smarter in the last two years, but when judged against some people, his intelligence shines.

May re-name him from Ginsu to Einstein.

[bishopshodan]

35 minutes ago, Hectic said:

Argument about long term COVID effects. Well the same goes for long term vaccine effects, no? Limited data both ways.

Which vaccines are considered to have bad long term effects? 

I know there isn't much info on the long haul symptoms of covid but the stories seem to be popping up more and more. Otherwise healthy people getting troubling conditions.

 

I did a quick google and found this from Western Aus.

All the side effects of these various vaccines claim 'Serious adverse events are very rare'

 

https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/Articles/A_E/Comparisons-of-the-effects-of-diseases-and-the-side-effects-of-vaccines

 

[-DLC-]

14 minutes ago, gurn said:

9-10 months in.

Still getting false info and false equivalence from posters and people out in the 'real' world.

 

I have a really smart cat. That cat has not gotten any smarter in the last two years, but when judged against some people, his intelligence shines.

May re-name him from Ginsu to Einstein.

I wish that people would connect the necessary dots.

Quote

I'm just really choked about everything that's happened, and the reaction the public has had to it, because it is going to take forever for us to ever get back to a world where .....

We're all choked and tired of this but it's not a reason to give up the fight.  To quit at the halfway point and find excuses to opt out.  It's unacceptable.

 

Being tired of it doesn't mean we can just pretend it isn't there and get back to normal. 

 

The more that people do that, the more it'll likely prolong things.  And cause unnecessary death.

 

I have seen my son 3 times since March...all outside/masked and without really being able to visit comfortably.  I get it.  I'm tired too.   We all need to hang in there and do whatever it takes to get rid of this thing.  So we CAN get back to normal.

 

 

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I wish that people would connect the necessary dots.

We're all choked and tired of this but it's not a reason to give up the fight.  To quit at the halfway point and find excuses to opt out.  It's unacceptable.

 

Being tired of it doesn't mean we can just pretend it isn't there and get back to normal. 

 

The more that people do that, the more it'll likely prolong things.  And cause unnecessary death.

 

I have seen my son 3 times since March...all outside/masked and without really being able to visit comfortably.  I get it.  I'm tired too.   We all need to hang in there and do whatever it takes to get rid of this thing.  So we CAN get back to normal.

 

 

Imagine what what our grandparents had to deal with growing up with Polio, the Spanish Flu (which killed 50 million out of one billion folks), then the Great Depression and the Second World War...

[thedestroyerofworlds]

Why can't we be more like Elvis, and roll up our sleeves when we get the chance to get vaccinated.  He did it for polio.  We've seen countless examples for Covid-19, but still have people on the fence. 

 

Backstage at CBS Studio 50, before a 1956 airing of The Ed Sullivan Show, New York City Commissioner of Health Leona Baumgartner, right, holds the arm of Elvis Presley as Assistant Commissioner Harold Fuerst administers the polio vaccine to the king of rock ‘n’ roll. In 1963, the health commissioner at that time announced that vaccination had reduced the number of new cases in Gotham to zero.

[ImConfused]

5 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

Those were just accidents ok, no foul play involved, fake news trying to discredit Putin!

4 hours ago, wloutet said:

I know how you feel. I have a very bright cousin who is Pro-Trump, Q-Annon, anti-mask, anti-vaccination, and right into the alternate web sites. No arguement works, it's all fake news, we are sheeple, show me your research (that's a good one). So sad.....

Emphasis on oxymoron

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, Hectic said:

What we can't be OK with, however, is people comparing COVID to polio like you just did. I mean come on.. 

Has  a problem with comparison

1 hour ago, Hectic said:

Since when has the media ever announced the deaths due to any cause in a daily update?

makes a comparison.   

[ImConfused]

58 minutes ago, Hectic said:

1) If this was smallpox, or polio, or measles, I'd be first in line to get the vaccine. 100%. 

But this is COVID. Media attention and the impact on our lives has thrown this way out of proportion.

 

2) Also, this is based on people living in a quarantined world, not the world I plan to live in once this is all over.

 

3) Look, I want to get my life back to normal just like everyone else does.

 

4) But what has happened is a complete disregard for critical thinking - opinions like mine are completely dismissed and taken as uneducated, or irrational, or just plain stupid.

 

5) All in all, I'm just really choked about everything that's happened, and the reaction the public has had to it, because it is going to take forever for us to ever get back to a world where we can watch a Canucks game with a packed stadium, no masks, and people not being afraid to hug/high five random fans. I can see this never happening again in our generation! And that's just really, really sad. 

1) Way out of proportion? What?? Just.. what?! I don't care to elaborate more on this other than to say that claim is quite.. confusing..

 

2) How do you plan to achieve this world you want to live in "once this is all over", if it's never over, because nobody gets vaccinated?

 

3) See response #2

 

4a) Yeah, there is definitely a complete disregard for critical thinking, but not from who you might be implying but rather those who belong to your line of reasoning

4b) There's a reason your opinion is perceived this way

 

5) See response 2 and GO CANUCKS GO!

[Hectic]

2 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I wish that people would connect the necessary dots.

We're all choked and tired of this but it's not a reason to give up the fight.  To quit at the halfway point and find excuses to opt out.  It's unacceptable.

 

Being tired of it doesn't mean we can just pretend it isn't there and get back to normal. 

 

The more that people do that, the more it'll likely prolong things.  And cause unnecessary death.

 

I have seen my son 3 times since March...all outside/masked and without really being able to visit comfortably.  I get it.  I'm tired too.   We all need to hang in there and do whatever it takes to get rid of this thing.  So we CAN get back to normal.

 

 

Thanks for being respectful in your responses. I know it's an emotional time for everyone, and I know that my opinions can make people snap pretty easily. But I promise I come in peace, and I'm not doing anything to worsen the situation from an actions perspective. 

 

What is troubling for me though, is when we talk about returning to normal, there's a bit of an overarching belief that we WILL return to normal because of the vaccine. And to that I'll say these points: 

 

- Our goal is not to eradicate COVID. That will not happen. The flu vaccine exists, but there are still cases, and deaths, due to the flu. So when the COVID vaccine gets rolled out, and people still get COVID, are we always going to be scared of it? My thoughts are that yes, there will always be a level of fear. 

- Our perception of other people, public gatherings, events, etc will forever be changed. Everyone's life was impacted by this to such an extent that it's shaped our behaviour. I held the door open for someone at a bookstore the other day, and they didn't even walk through the door. The more we dig this hole, the more likely that our behaviour will continue to change to a point where, like I mentioned earlier, going to a Canucks game with 18000+ people not wearing masks becomes less likely of a possibility. When did we become so afraid of diseases, and dying, that we stopped living? 

 

And I feel the need to comment on your point about looking after the elderly. It's a tough spot to be in, no doubt. But I feel like if I was someone who was 90+, living in the time we're living in now, I would have a really hard time with restrictions. I mean the measures that are meant to protect elderly people, are isolating them in their homes, depriving them of enjoying experiences with friends/family, and there's no end in sight. There was a survey by the Seniors Advocate in BC that overwhelmingly showed that the majority of elderly people would much rather see friends/family and get COVID than be restricted/locked down. Why are these voices ignored, if they are the people we're trying to protect? 

[ImConfused]

2 minutes ago, Hectic said:

- Our goal is not to eradicate COVID. That will not happen.

 

- When did we become so afraid of diseases, and dying, that we stopped living? 

 

- There was a survey by the Seniors Advocate in BC that overwhelmingly showed that the majority of elderly people would much rather see friends/family and get COVID than be restricted/locked down. Why are these voices ignored, if they are the people we're trying to protect? 

1) Speak for yourself, and what proof can you provide that eradicating the disease is impossible?

 

2) Late 2019-Early 2020. I hear there are people that have quite literally stopped living.

 

3) I guess we should ask them again if they'd rather see friends/family AFTER they are suffering from the effects of the infection and see if they still answer the same way

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Hectic said:

If this was smallpox, or polio, or measles, I'd be first in line to get the vaccine. 100%. 

 

But this is COVID. Media attention and the impact on our lives has thrown this way out of proportion. Half of all people who have died are over the age of 85. The average life expectancy in Canada is 82.5. 

 

Since when has the media ever announced the deaths due to any cause in a daily update? If people were to hear about the number of influenza cases/deaths daily I'm sure there would be a different perception of this as well. I mean how many people who never get the flu vaccine are all of a sudden the first people to advocate for the COVID vaccine? How did we get here? 

 

I'll express my vaccine-related concerns below (note that I get the flu vaccine every year.. I actually gave over 1500 of them in 2020 too!). I feel these are pretty valid, so please be respectful in your response for/against my case here: 

 

- I have anaphylactic food allergies. What's to say I don't get a reaction from this vaccine? I get the flu vaccine every year, but this is a different type of vaccine. And what's the risk/benefit for me here? Again, COVID isn't polio or smallpox. 

- Fastest vaccine to come to market, and liabilities waived for the manufacturers if something goes horribly wrong. 

- 95% effective? Well, this is based on 2 months of data. Also, this is based on people living in a quarantined world, not the world I plan to live in once this is all over. So in terms of efficacy, we can't say it's effective as initial reports - confounding variables. 

- Argument about long term COVID effects. Well the same goes for long term vaccine effects, no? Limited data both ways. 

 

Look, I want to get my life back to normal just like everyone else does. But what has happened is a complete disregard for critical thinking - opinions like mine are completely dismissed and taken as uneducated, or irrational, or just plain stupid. For clarity, I don't participate in any crazy anti-mask rallies, I wear a mask where it's required, and New Years is my favourite time of year to have a party and I'm doing a 1-1 date night with the lady. So actions speak louder than words - please consider this before a condescending or aggressive reply to this message. 

 

All in all, I'm just really choked about everything that's happened, and the reaction the public has had to it, because it is going to take forever for us to ever get back to a world where we can watch a Canucks game with a packed stadium, no masks, and people not being afraid to hug/high five random fans. I can see this never happening again in our generation! And that's just really, really sad. 

Dude.   It’s taken this long just to get to most people wearing masks.    I highly doubt things won’t take long to get back to normal - say fall of 2021.    There’s enough folks out there that have proper critical thinking to be aware that this isn’t the end of the world or a forever thing.   Sure maybe for a few months people will be tentatively get back to normal.   And at least these generations will be cognizant of future CDC warnings and take them seriously.   

[-DLC-]

16 minutes ago, Hectic said:

Thanks for being respectful in your responses. I know it's an emotional time for everyone, and I know that my opinions can make people snap pretty easily. But I promise I come in peace, and I'm not doing anything to worsen the situation from an actions perspective. 

 

What is troubling for me though, is when we talk about returning to normal, there's a bit of an overarching belief that we WILL return to normal because of the vaccine. And to that I'll say these points: 

 

- Our goal is not to eradicate COVID. That will not happen. The flu vaccine exists, but there are still cases, and deaths, due to the flu. So when the COVID vaccine gets rolled out, and people still get COVID, are we always going to be scared of it? My thoughts are that yes, there will always be a level of fear. 

- Our perception of other people, public gatherings, events, etc will forever be changed. Everyone's life was impacted by this to such an extent that it's shaped our behaviour. I held the door open for someone at a bookstore the other day, and they didn't even walk through the door. The more we dig this hole, the more likely that our behaviour will continue to change to a point where, like I mentioned earlier, going to a Canucks game with 18000+ people not wearing masks becomes less likely of a possibility. When did we become so afraid of diseases, and dying, that we stopped living? 

 

And I feel the need to comment on your point about looking after the elderly. It's a tough spot to be in, no doubt. But I feel like if I was someone who was 90+, living in the time we're living in now, I would have a really hard time with restrictions. I mean the measures that are meant to protect elderly people, are isolating them in their homes, depriving them of enjoying experiences with friends/family, and there's no end in sight. There was a survey by the Seniors Advocate in BC that overwhelmingly showed that the majority of elderly people would much rather see friends/family and get COVID than be restricted/locked down. Why are these voices ignored, if they are the people we're trying to protect? 

You as well...it's an emotional time for everyone.

 

We won't immediately "return to normal" because of the vaccine...the vaccine is simply our vehicle to eventually get us to a place where it isn't as prominent or threatening to the masses.  To help ensure hospitals aren't overloaded to the point where decisions of who lives and who dies have to be made.  To pace ourselves.  It's not a magic cure but it is going to help reduce the numbers so that we can make sure that our healthcare system isn't busting at the seams.  And it will start to break chains of transmission.  

 

Elderly people aren't all of the same mindset and those who'd "rather get COVID" are, once again, thinking of self but it extends beyond that.  Who they will transfer that to matters.  If you've been placed "in care"  there are others to consider as part of that.  

Voices aren't being ignored as much as tough decisions are being made.  It's horrible, but it's just a reality of this pandemic. 

There is an end in sight but, for some, that end will be death.  So we have to do what we can to prevent that as the driving force.  If some are sad, lonely, depressed through it all they can at least hope for a better day.  Someone who's died has been deprived of that.