Value of Dougie Hamilton (Discussion/Proposal)

[Elias Pettersson]

Hamilton is not a fit with Hughes.  We need a younger, bigger meaner version of Tanev.  The only two guys that come to mind are Brandon Carlo and Erik Cernak.  Boston has the cap space to re-sign Carlo, but Tampa is screwed next year and will need to move millions if they want Kucherov back in their lineup.  They were able to circumvent the cap this year with that joke of a trade to get two players on LTIR but I don't think that will work this summer.

 

Like others mentioned if our season is going down the toilet I would consider trading Pearson, Sutter, Virtanen and Gaudette for assets at the deadline and then trying to flip some of those assets in the summer to try and move Loui.  In addition I would expose Myers and see if Seattle bites.  Throw them a 3rd rounder to take him.  If you can get both Eriksson and Myers off the books then Benning will have probably the most cap flexibility in the entire NHL to do something special this summer.  We could sign Larsson as a UFA and then go hard for Cernak, offering to take Johnson or Killorn off their books so Tampa can become cap compliant.

 

Miller            Pettersson    Boeser

Hoglander    Horvat          Podkolzin

Killorn         Trenin          Lind

Motte           Beagle         MacEwen

Roussel      Hawyrluk

 

Hughes     Cernak

Juolevi      Larsson

Tryamkin   Schmidt

Edler

 

Demko   Holtby

 

Now THAT is a prime NHL defense that will take us somewhere.  That would be my dream defense for next season.  And we now have an actual 3rd line that can hit and forecheck the opposition's top line taking the pressure off of BO's line.  

 

Larsson you get as a UFA.  Killorn and Cernak you get by packaging an asset or two to Tampa to help them get cap compliant, and Trenin you can get by trading either Gaudette or Virtanen to Nashville.

[NHL'er]

Did Dougie Hamilton's love of museums get him traded?

 

 

[NHL'er]

43 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Hamilton is not a fit with Hughes.  We need a younger, bigger meaner version of Tanev.  The only two guys that come to mind are Brandon Carlo and Erik Cernak.  Boston has the cap space to re-sign Carlo, but Tampa is screwed next year and will need to move millions if they want Kucherov back in their lineup.  They were able to circumvent the cap this year with that joke of a trade to get two players on LTIR but I don't think that will work this summer.

 

Like others mentioned if our season is going down the toilet I would consider trading Pearson, Sutter, Virtanen and Gaudette for assets at the deadline and then trying to flip some of those assets in the summer to try and move Loui.  In addition I would expose Myers and see if Seattle bites.  Throw them a 3rd rounder to take him.  If you can get both Eriksson and Myers off the books then Benning will have probably the most cap flexibility in the entire NHL to do something special this summer.  We could sign Larsson as a UFA and then go hard for Cernak, offering to take Johnson or Killorn off their books so Tampa can become cap compliant.

 

Miller            Pettersson    Boeser

Hoglander    Horvat          Podkolzin

Killorn         Trenin          Lind

Motte           Beagle         MacEwen

Roussel      Hawyrluk

 

Hughes     Cernak

Juolevi      Larsson

Tryamkin   Schmidt

Edler

 

Demko   Holtby

 

Now THAT is a prime NHL defense that will take us somewhere.  That would be my dream defense for next season.  And we now have an actual 3rd line that can hit and forecheck the opposition's top line taking the pressure off of BO's line.  

 

Larsson you get as a UFA.  Killorn and Cernak you get by packaging an asset or two to Tampa to help them get cap compliant, and Trenin you can get by trading either Gaudette or Virtanen to Nashville.

Not sold on Juolevi in the top 4 as soon as next season but potentially swap him and Schmidt and I could get on board. 

[Azzy]

6 hours ago, wildcam said:

1. Hughes --2 x 6.7 million

2. Petey --- 2 X 6.7 million

3. Person---2 X 3 million ?

4.Demko ---2 X 2.5 million ? See how his season turns out -- Early

5 Tryamkin -- 2 X 1.5 million ? Would be nice to have his toughness # 4 OR 5 guy..

6. Edler  --- 1 X 2.8 million ?

7. Juolevi -- 2 X  1 million 

Literally every single one of those numbers is under-baked. About the only one that might even be vaguely accurate is Tryamkin but if you think Hughes, Pettersson and Demko all sign for such low figures, you're in dreamland.

[Tinky-Winky]

Wish Dustin byfuglien would comeback, but looks like hes done in the NHL ...always loved hsi physical game play with the jets

[GritGrinder]

6 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

The Cane we want is Brett Pesce. He would complement QH perfectly.

 

Canes will want to resign Hamilton but will also struggle to protect their Dmen in the Seattle expansion if they resign him.

 

One solution is CAR resigns Hamilton and then carries out a two part trade with VAN.

 

Part 1 before the Seattle expansion...

To VAN: Pesce

To CAR: Virtanen + 2022 2nd + 2022 3rd

 

CAR protects 7F: Aho, Staal (nmc), Teravainen, Trocheck, Svechnikov, Foegle, Virtanen, 3D: Hamilton, Slavin, Skjei, 1G: Mrazek

VAN protects 7F: Petey, Miller, Horvat, Boeser, Gaudette, Motte, MacEwen, 3D: Pesce, Juolevi, Schmidt, 1G: Demko

 

 

Part 2 after Seattle expansion...

To VAN: Nieddereiter + 2022 2nd

To CAR: Schmidt

 

Essentially it is Schmidt + Virtanen + 3rd for Pesce + Niedderreiter

CAR do this to keep a strong top 4 group of Dmen

VAN takes on $800k more cap in the deal

 

 

CAR moves Svechnikov to their 2LW and Virtanen joins as 3RW, their defense next season becomes:

Hamilton Slavin

Skjei Schmidt

Gardiner Fleury

 

VAN next season:

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Hoglander Horvat Podz

Nieddereiter Gaudette MacEwen

Roussel Beagle Motte

(Hawryluk/Lind/Jasek)

 

Hughes Pesce

Edler Myers

Juolevi Tryamkin

(Rathbone/Chatfield)

 

Demko, Holtby

Not sure why Carolina keeps Skjei instead of Pesce though.

 

Pesce is younger, bigger, makes $1m less aav and his #'s are similar or better than Skjei over the last couple of seasons.

[Crabcakes]

12 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Is there any evidence out there to support that or is it just speculation?

Apparently the reason why Calgary moved him.  LIkes museums......real weirdo 

[JM_]

14 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Apparently the reason why Calgary moved him.  LIkes museums......real weirdo 

...but I like museums too... 

 

I don't mind the idea of Doogie at the right price and term, but think he'll be offered more elsewhere. If Schmidt works out we don't really need to add in another high paid offensive d man, and we can replace Myers size with Tryamkin if we lose Myers to Seattle. 

 

But with covid who knows, maybe we can get DH on a 1 or 2 year term, which would be all I'd want to commit to for him. 

[BCNate]

14 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Dougie Hamilton 27 years old

RHD

6'6"       229 lbs

+/- Solid and in the positive

 

My suggestion is we sign him as a UFA this summer, if we can move one of Myers or Schmidt

 

More so Schmidt, who will bring in a kings ransom or slightly less

 

Cost? Hmmm? 7.5 Million Covid contract

 

Do we do it if we can clear cap? I would much rather have him that OEL that Benning was going after last summer

 

I Hamilton is going to cash in pretty big this offseason, much like Pietrangelo did last year.  Hamilton is only 27.  I think he stays in Carolina.  I'd rather look for a value RD in a trade pre expansion draft, or look at a lower cost option like Savard, Kevan Miller, or Montour.  I'd vote for us to stay out of the big UFA market this offseason and save the cap for the following summer for 2 reasons:  It will become more clear what we need as all of our key prospects will have graduated, and that UFA class has the potential to be massive (I get that most will resign).

 

 

[Tom Sestito]

One of the twenty best defensemen in hockey? @oldnews says no.

 

A 4.5 being paid like the 23rd (at the time the contract was signed) best defenseman in hockey? Oldnews defends it constantly.

 

Just because Hamilton plays well with good players and is an introvert doesn’t make him an unattractive target lol.

 

Just like Schmidt, this would be a fantastic acquisition. 

['NucK™]

14 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Is there any evidence out there to support that or is it just speculation?

The only actual "evidence" (came from a teammate iirc) is that he likes to visit museums and other cultural landmarks on trips rather than hitting up a bar or an event.

 

Definitely doesn't' sound like something that is going to rip a team apart lol.... and what's with the "makes teammates uncomfortable" talk. Jesus, these are grown men in a workplace environment.. if someone isn't acting like a true "hockey player", they can suck it up 

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, Tom Sestito said:

One of the twenty best defensemen in hockey? @oldnews says no.

 

A 4.5 being paid like the 23rd (at the time the contract was signed) best defenseman in hockey? Oldnews defends it constantly.

 

Just because Hamilton plays well with good players and is an introvert doesn’t make him an unattractive target lol.

 

Just like Schmidt, this would be a fantastic acquisition. 

oldnews says

oldnews says.

Hmm.  What did Tom Sestito say about Motte?  What does Sestito say in every trade or signing thread?

 

Hamilton is the Canes #3 - but Tom Sestito says he's a top 20.  LOL to that.

I'd make my point but I don't think I'll bother with your one-liner until you are able to substantiate your claim. 

'Just because he's an introvert doesn't make him an unattractive target'... wgaf?

If you think he's a top 20 NHL I don't want to see the team of Barries, Subbans and Gardiners you'd build.

Tom Sestito provides more evidence that Hamilton is one of the most over-rated ("top 20") defensemen in the NHL.

 

10 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

The Cane we want is Brett Pesce. He would complement QH perfectly.

 

Exactly.  What the Canucks need is a Pesce.

However, the cost of acquiring Pesce would be steep.  4 years 4ish million cap remaining on his excellent contract.

However there are a number of good potential targest out there that might be avialable pre-expansion draft.....

Some young guys like Foote will be e.d. eligible.  Timmins won't but I'd love to take him off the Avs.

I like Larsson as a better fit and more affordable target than a piggy-back Hamilton, who wouldn't be able to do that here unless he were playing with an Edler - which negates the point.  Guys like Mayfield might be available / unprotectable - and his contract is as good as it gets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fanuck]

16 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Sounds like Hamilton might of grown up.

If we were looking to sign a fringe depth-type defenceman to league minimum then I'd be ok with 'might'. 

But this guy is perhaps going to command 6mil+ with term as a UFA and I'm not ok with 'might' in that scenario - it has to be 100% unequivocal that he's a team-first kind of player imo.   

 

[oldnews]

First thing people might want to look at when proposing acquisitions - particularly ones to play with Hughes - are things like where their production comes from.

With a player like Hamilton -you can trim 1/3 of his production off immediately - because he won't be quarterbacking the powerplay here - that is Hughes' role and Hughes is going nowhere in that sense.   

 

And then you have to ask whether that player - that you're signing based on a premium/role they won't play here - whether the rest of their game is worth the 7.5 million you're proposing to pay them.  And then look at the context of their 5 on 5 outcomes - who they have played with.  If their principal partners have been Norris D at every step - Chara, Giordano, Slavvin - then you have to ask yourself what that player is likely to look like relatively - when they no longer have that #1 beside them (sorry, but Hughes is not a "#1" - certainly not in the sense that all situations, hard minutes, two way legitimate top 20 defensemen - like Chara was, like Giordano was/is, like Slavvvin is)....Is Hamilton's 5 on 5 even likely to sustain?   

 

And then we also need to ask - what is it we need in a RHD beyond being a partner for Hughes?   And the answer to that, imo is arguably or ideally a principal penalty killer - which is a much more important facet in an acquisition than an overlapping powerplay quarterback imo (we already have a few capable 2nd unit D)..  So if you can't get that all situations type player, you lean towards the one that can handle himself in hard minutes, can anchor Hughes and let him do his thing,  can otherwise kill penalties... and balance out the blueline better. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by oldnews

[smokes]

The only big D I want to see come to our line up next year is Tryamkin.

[Junkyard Dog]

3 hours ago, Fanuck said:

If we were looking to sign a fringe depth-type defenceman to league minimum then I'd be ok with 'might'. 

But this guy is perhaps going to command 6mil+ with term as a UFA and I'm not ok with 'might' in that scenario - it has to be 100% unequivocal that he's a team-first kind of player imo.   

 

From all the quotes and reports I have read he seems like a weird guy. More like Booth than someone like Evander Kane. 
 

As long as he isn’t as weird as Bryzgalov I’d be okay if we magically had the cap. So a pipe dream at this point. 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, oldnews said:

First thing people might want to look at when proposing acquisitions - particularly ones to play with Hughes - are things like where their production comes from.

With a player like Hamilton -you can trim 1/3 of his production off immediately - because he won't be quarterbacking the powerplay here - that is Hughes' role and Hughes is going nowhere in that sense.   

 

And then you have to ask whether that player - that you're signing based on a premium/role they won't play here - whether the rest of their game is worth the 7.5 million you're proposing to pay them.  And then look at the context of their 5 on 5 outcomes - who they have played with.  If their principal partners have been Norris D at every step - Chara, Giordano, Slavvin - then you have to ask yourself what that player is likely to look like relatively - when they no longer have that #1 beside them (sorry, but Hughes is not a "#1" - certainly not in the sense that all situations, hard minutes, two way legitimate top 20 defensemen - like Chara was, like Giordano was/is, like Slavvvin is)....Is Hamilton's 5 on 5 even likely to sustain?   

 

And then we also need to ask - what is it we need in a RHD beyond being a partner for Hughes?   And the answer to that, imo is arguably or ideally a principal penalty killer - which is a much more important facet in an acquisition than an overlapping powerplay quarterback imo (we already have a few capable 2nd unit D)..  So if you can't get that all situations type player, you lean towards the one that can handle himself in hard minutes, can anchor Hughes and let him do his thing,  can otherwise kill penalties... and balance out the blueline better. 

The only two guys that fit your description to a tee are Brandon Carlo and Erik Cernak.  Carlo is unavailable but Cernak may be had depending on Tampa's cap issue in the summer.  If Benning wants to go after only one player this summer it should be Erik Cernak.  He is the perfect partner for Quinn Hughes.  And our #1 priority is to find a partner for Hughes so we can get the best out of him.  Playing with Jordie Benn is not getting the best out of Hughes.  Tanev would have helped tremendously this year but Benning decided not to give any UFA's long term deals, so he's gone.  

[CaptKirk888]

20 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

For the small upgrade in cost, we get a better player and we get that asset we acquire when we trade Schmidt

This I find ridiculous Jan. Schmidt has played 19 games for us. Perhaps in this f**cked up, COVID cap crunch season where there was no time for camp, pre-season gelling etc. we give the guy a chance?

[J.I.A.H.N]

@Fanuck

@oldnews

 

Can you name me the top ten defensemen voted on the Norris Trophy in 2020..

2020...........7th in voting...........26 years old

2019.........14th in voting...........25 years old

2018.........14th in voting...........24years old

2017...........9th in voting...........23 years old

2016..........Missed

 

Yeah, he is not very good! 

[Junkyard Dog]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The only two guys that fit your description to a tee are Brandon Carlo and Erik Cernak.  Carlo is unavailable but Cernak may be had depending on Tampa's cap issue in the summer.  If Benning wants to go after only one player this summer it should be Erik Cernak.  He is the perfect partner for Quinn Hughes.  And our #1 priority is to find a partner for Hughes so we can get the best out of him.  Playing with Jordie Benn is not getting the best out of Hughes.  Tanev would have helped tremendously this year but Benning decided not to give any UFA's long term deals, so he's gone.  

Alec Martinez would go good with Hughes but someone would have to play RD. Martinez is a good partner for the offensive minded Theodore. Theodore is playing his off-side

 

Montour might be an interesting target as well.