[Edited] Bottom 5 Finish Now in Reach!

[AV.]

I mean, the OP is correct.

 

Playoffs are pretty much out of the question, unfortunately.  Hd we taken care of business against Montreal or Toronto even 2-3 times, maybe its a different story.  But we didn't.

 

Can't really fault the players though, likewise the coach.  They're doing what they can but the team isn't good enough.  That's on the GM.

[King Heffy]

4 hours ago, oldnews said:

It's for the people that understand the game - or have some interest in understanding the game.

 

Highlight reel fanboys never understand the value of players like this and probably never will - because they willfully blind themselves to defend their egos, weak takes, and are too busy fanning the 'stars' and obsessing over ignorantly received whipping boys to recognize the role players, the team game.

 

Guys like Beagle who eat extremely high levels of dzone starts (and who are consistently at the bottom of the team in goals against 5 on 5 per 60 - ie the team's best defensive forwards), who generate positive territory, are among the best faceoff guys in the league, and who are the first guys on the ice for a penalty kill... people who believe the team is "significantly better" without them - have a noob's eye view, plain and simple.   Provost is never able to respond to the actual outcomes, so he runs on in predictable one-trick, one-note, substance-free soliloquys for misdirection.  'Er, I've been attacked, ad hominemz' by too much objectivity / too many actual statistics!'

 

Beagle brings a lot of the same elements Malhotra did.  People whined about that signing too.

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Beagle brings a lot of the same elements Malhotra did.  People whined about that signing too.

People will whine when Beagle is gone too if it's Bailey taking over. 

[AV.]

Nobody said anything when Malholtra was signed, mostly because he was useful and the impacts he had were both tangible and visible, unlike whatever it is we're supposed to believe Beagle brings.

[Gurn]

3 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Besides, it's telling and quite funny how you omit Richardson,

The guy just stomped on 8 of 9 from your list and you are trying to claim victory?

Hahahahahahahahaha.

[spur1]

8 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Nobody said anything when Malholtra was signed, mostly because he was useful and the impacts he had were both tangible and visible, unlike whatever it is we're supposed to believe Beagle brings.

So...is Beagle the reason we are supposedly missing the playoffs?

[AV.]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

The guy just stomped on 8 of 9 from your list and you are trying to claim victory?

Hahahahahahahahaha.

There is no "victory" to be had.  I was talking about the usefulness and cost-effectiveness of bottom-six forwards around the NHL, he was referring to how each of those players plays the center position or something along those lines.  Idk, nothing oldnews says is ever thought-provoking nor on topic.  It's all mindless dribble with some cherrypicked analytics thrown in there to prove a "point".

1 minute ago, spur1 said:

So...is Beagle the reason we are supposedly missing the playoffs?

No, not directly anyways.  A poorly constructed team playing against better constructed teams in the division is the biggest reason for where we are, IMO.

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

There is no "victory" to be had.  I was talking about the usefulness and cost-effectiveness of bottom-six forwards around the NHL,

give that goal post another nudge. You listed 9 players you asserted were better than Beagle.

He replied and crushed your suggestions.

For the one he omitted to reply about; why don't you go and find the stats that make your case?

Telling that you haven't.---- something similar to what you said to him huh?

[AV.]

7 minutes ago, gurn said:

give that goal post another nudge. You listed 9 players you asserted were better than Beagle.

He replied and crushed your suggestions.

For the one he omitted to reply about; why don't you go and find the stats that make your case?

Telling that you haven't.---- something similar to what you said to him huh?

What?  Are you asking me to provide stats for why Richardson is better?

 

Uhhh, he played here.  Basic memory tells me he was effective or useful in like 60% of the games he played in this uniform as opposed to the 10% or so we get with Beagle.

 

Again, sometimes you just need to watch the games and see what goes down to contextualize these statistics.

 

"Stats" from last year would have people believe Jake Virtanen is a near 20 goal scorer, while watching the games would tell you he's a floater with an inflated shooting percentage.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Alain Vigneault

[spur1]

This is in the wrong thread is what I was hinting at. Woosh. 

[AV.]

5 minutes ago, spur1 said:

This is in the wrong thread is what I was hinting at. Woosh. 

Ok.  Thank you for your feedback.

[IBatch]

12 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

What?  Are you asking me to provide stats for why Richardson is better?

 

Uhhh, he played here.  Basic memory tells me he was effective or useful in like 60% of the games he played in this uniform as opposed to the 10% or so we get with Beagle.

 

Again, sometimes you just need to watch the games and see what goes down to contextualize these statistics.

 

"Stats" from last year would have people believe Jake Virtanen is a near 20 goal scorer, while watching the games would tell you he's a floater with an inflated shooting percentage.

That's called deflecting.   Beagle is one of a few Canucks that doesn't back down or hesitate to get busy after the whistle.   He's also part of the reason why our team is so good in the dot - a team strength last playoffs.    Hands of stone around the net - but his work does help his wingers at least get a chance to score...JV is another pickle for sure.   At least Beagle can go to bed with a cup ring under his pillow - or wherever he wants.     Personally i'd like to see Sutter re-upped and take over Beagles spot if the contract is palatable.   We don't have  much of any C prospect depth for the time being.   

[AV.]

Just now, IBatch said:

That's called deflecting.   Beagle is one of a few Canucks that doesn't back down or hesitate to get busy after the whistle.   He's also part of the reason why our team is so good in the dot - a team strength last playoffs.    Hands of stone around the net - but his work does help his wingers at least get a chance to score...JV is another pickle for sure.   At least Beagle can go to bed with a cup ring under his pillow - or wherever he wants.     Personally i'd like to see Sutter re-upped and take over Beagles spot if the contract is palatable.   We don't have  much of any C prospect depth for the time being.   

Ok but there's a difference between wanting veterans who are good in the dot (which is totally fine and almost necessary for making a good team) and overpaying for those types of players and having them be the thorn in your side, like Beagle and Sutter have been.  And no, being a rebuilding team is not an excuse for overpyaing  Good, well-run teams are proactive and work within their limitations to get on top (see: Gillis, Mike signing Samuelsson for 2.5M annually while his peers were dumping 6M+ on Gaborik, Havlat, and co. to get the same type of production that Samuelsson gave Vancouver).

 

If Beagle and Sutter were making 1M - 2M, nobody would care about their daily impact.  But they don't.  They make 3M and 4.35M, respectively, and for that money, fans have every reason to expect more out of them, especially in a cap world.

 

Beagle has good qualities in his game, sure, but for his price and what he's costing us, he's a bum and we could do much better.

[Provost]

[grandmaster]

This team is done. As the OP said with each game we lose others on this stupid division keep getting points. We are too far behind now. This team is incapable of going on a 3/4 win ratio to the end. That’s what teams like Tampa and Vegas can do. Not us. It will definitely be a lottery pick draft.

 

I’m also not sure what some folks here are saying about being trade deadline sellers. Who is gonna want our trash?
 

Given these untouchables - Brock, Miller, Petey, Bo, Hughes, Hogs & Pods...everyone else has a low return rate!

[Provost]

8 hours ago, grandmaster said:

This team is done. As the OP said with each game we lose others on this stupid division keep getting points. We are too far behind now. This team is incapable of going on a 3/4 win ratio to the end. That’s what teams like Tampa and Vegas can do. Not us. It will definitely be a lottery pick draft.

 

I’m also not sure what some folks here are saying about being trade deadline sellers. Who is gonna want our trash?
 

Given these untouchables - Brock, Miller, Petey, Bo, Hughes, Hogs & Pods...everyone else has a low return rate!

We will drop another couple points back in the race  this weekend as Calgary and Edmonton play each other and one of them is guaranteed to get points out of it... the literal point of my OP and how this season works... too many guaranteed points between the three teams we are chasing.

 

It isn’t impossible... but highly improbable.

 

I have high hopes for the trade deadline actually.  Values get inflated and 3rd/4th round picks are nothing to scoff at.  That should be the going rate for Sutter and Benn.  Pearson maybe even better then that.

 

The picks themselves don’t have a ton of value since 3rd rounders are low odds to become meaningful contributors... but I believe those type of picks will be the exact currency we need before expansion to pick up a couple of D that teams can’t protect.  
 

Soucy, Foote, Gudas, Borgen and a whole host of big boys will be available for mid round picks.  If we can get a few of those picks at the deadline to use as currency, we are golden.  Add in the possibility of Tryamkin coming back as a 3rd pairing guy and we have an entirely remade defence in one offseason.

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Provost

[Junkyard Dog]

We are currently 4 games under .500

 

3 games left(1 Jets, 2 Oilers) in February and with this homestand. We have a 3 day break then play the Jets in a back to back in Winnipeg at the beginning of March. Then we'll play the Leafs and Habs at home(2/2) on an every other day schedule.

 

Oilers are gonna have 2 days off before they play us. They play the Flames tomorrow then the break. They are 8-2 in their last 10. Habs will be on an every other day schedule when they face us. Leafs will be tired and play us the day after playing the Oilers and then play us the 3rd game in 4 night the following game. We will have an advantage of energy only vs the Leafs. Oilers will have an extra day off compared to us. Jets and Habs should be even in energy.

 

This will probably be the stretch(9 games) that determines whether or not we're still barely fighting or out of it. We can't go worse than 7-2 which would put us 1 game over .500 and keep us afloat. We'd also likely need help from the Sens.

 

Possible but improbable. 

 

March 25-30 are 6 days off for us, 1 game from March 25th to April 2nd(1 game in 9 days). Would make sense to trade UFAs then.

[DefCon1]

9 hours ago, IBatch said:

People will whine when Beagle is gone too if it's Bailey taking over. 

That would be even worse because its like going backwards while Hoglander, Hughes and Petey are on ELC. Instead of adding vets that are cheap but useful, we replace them with mediocre ones that are cheaper but a downgrade. Beagle is probably signed for 1 million per  since that is all he is worth as a PK and faceoff specialist on the 4th line, not 3 million

[ImConfused]

12 hours ago, Provost said:

 universally considered

There you go using words literally that you don't quite understand again like "mathematically eliminated"

 

I'm pretty sure there's SOMEBODY out there that thinks at least one other team has a worse bottom 6 than us, so that would mean, in fact, it's not universal.

 

8 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Ok but there's a difference between wanting veterans who are good in the dot (which is totally fine and almost necessary for making a good team) and overpaying for those types of players and having them be the thorn in your side, like Beagle and Sutter have been.  And no, being a rebuilding team is not an excuse for overpyaing  Good, well-run teams are proactive and work within their limitations to get on top (see: Gillis, Mike signing Samuelsson for 2.5M annually while his peers were dumping 6M+ on Gaborik, Havlat, and co. to get the same type of production that Samuelsson gave Vancouver).

 

If Beagle and Sutter were making 1M - 2M, nobody would care about their daily impact.  But they don't.  They make 3M and 4.35M, respectively, and for that money, fans have every reason to expect more out of them, especially in a cap world.

 

Beagle has good qualities in his game, sure, but for his price and what he's costing us, he's a bum and we could do much better.

Wait.

 

So what you're saying is, we should sign better players.. and try to pay them less money?

 

WHY HASN'T ANYONE TOLD BENNING ABOUT THIS INGENIOUS AND DASTARDLY SCHEME!?

Edited February 20, 2021 by ImConfused

[DownUndaCanuck]

In such an average division anything is possible, especially because every game is 4 points. We could go 7-3 and because we're stealing points from rivals, easily bump up. 

 

Right now there are glimpses of us playing better but we still give up another breakaway which is the game winner.

 

I wouldn't say we're done yet but it's close. Toronto and Montreal are pulling away but Calgary, Edmonton and to a lesser extent Winnipeg are all beatable.

 

Crazy to think we may miss the playoffs with 2 top-10 scorers and 3 point per game players...