Expansion draft, who are you keeping ?

[Gawdzukes]

On 3/12/2021 at 1:10 AM, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

I'm keeping

 

Pettersson, Miller, Boeser, Horvat, Motte, Gaudette, Lind

 

Schmidt, Juolevi, Myers.

 

Demko

 

I think find a way either to reup Hamonic or Edler just to expose to meet a 1 dman exposed who is under contract. I know people hate Myer's contract and him overall, but he has been a pillar for us this season. Without him we would be in serious trouble. Not really all that concerned about losing Rafferty, Chatfield etc.

 

I'm sorta torn, not really wanting to expose MacEwen, but I feel I would regret letting a second round pick go in Lind. My gut sense is Canucks lose a forward in the expansion draft. A toss up of either losing Lind, MacEwen, Virtanen or Gaudette

I'm definitely protecting Lind, then it's a tossup between Gaudette and Virtanen. MacEwen has interesting tools but I'm not sure he ever fully gets, or is a player an expansion team would be interested in.

[Gawdzukes]

One can dream but what if they e3nded

On 3/12/2021 at 12:08 PM, mll said:

Canucks have to expose one of Myers or Schmidt to meet the exposure requirements.  Don’t see Edler or Hamonic agreeing to an extension to be exposed.  Do the Canucks really want to extend Benn + it will be giving him leverage in the negotiations and if not taken they’ll be stuck with his contract.  Not sure either that they want to give up assets to trade for a D that meets the exposure requirements.

If we expose Benn, Holtby, Gaudette, and MacEwen there could be the slimmest of chances they choose a Roussel, or Beagle. I mean one can dream right? Haha

[JM_]

11 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Sbisa? Gudbranson? 

 

Just off the top of my head.

so you're not giving any consideration to context or timing in your judgment of Jim? 

[kanucks25]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

so you're not giving any consideration to context or timing in your judgment of Jim? 

What you see as context and timing, I see as excuses

 

We can agree to disagree.

 

(not saying context isn't important - just that the "reasons" I'm always given don't hold up, IMO)

Edited March 24, 2021 by kanucks25

[JM_]

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

What you see as context and timing, I see as excuses

 

We can agree to disagree.

 

(not saying context isn't important - just that the reasons I'm always given don't hold up, IMO)

I agree that Jims pro scouting decisions have often been poor, but I don't agree that his RFA deals have been bad when he's been president and gm alone. 

 

He did poop the bed on the Guddy deal, but he also fixed it. Pearson was a solid return on that. You have to be willing to give some credit to fix a mistake. 

 

Where I don't want Jim making any more big decisions is in the UFA market, other than making a play for Lowry. Outside of that I want him to take a pass on anything that isn't under 1 mil. 

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I agree that Jims pro scouting decisions have often been poor, but I don't agree that his RFA deals have been bad when he's been president and gm alone. 

 

He did poop the bed on the Guddy deal, but he also fixed it. Pearson was a solid return on that. You have to be willing to give some credit to fix a mistake. 

 

Where I don't want Jim making any more big decisions is in the UFA market, other than making a play for Lowry. Outside of that I want him to take a pass on anything that isn't under 1 mil. 

I think JB takes a lot of unwarranted heat for trying to put competitive teams on the ice while we all wait for the young guns to mature.  

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think JB takes a lot of unwarranted heat for trying to put competitive teams on the ice while we all wait for the young guns to mature.  

sure, because the tankists wanted higher picks. Even though history of it showed how that "plan" can easily fail, and you can also end up picking the best guys anyway. Petey is the best player from the 2017 draft. You can make cases back and forth between him and Makar maybe depending on team need, but I don't think Makar is the clear winner yet. Pretty easy to do for the rest of the top 10 tho. 

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think JB takes a lot of unwarranted heat for trying to put competitive teams on the ice while we all wait for the young guns to mature.  

And a lot of misconstruing of what 'competitive' means while they're at it.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I agree that Jims pro scouting decisions have often been poor, but I don't agree that his RFA deals have been bad when he's been president and gm alone. 

 

He did poop the bed on the Guddy deal, but he also fixed it. Pearson was a solid return on that. You have to be willing to give some credit to fix a mistake. 

 

Where I don't want Jim making any more big decisions is in the UFA market, other than making a play for Lowry. Outside of that I want him to take a pass on anything that isn't under 1 mil. 

Jimmy McGill.... well said.  I have the same anxieties around JB going after a glut of UFAs again to plug holes.   But also understand why he did that going back to Miller (goalie) and Vrbata (targeted Iginla first got the second best UFA at the time).   Also feel he's learned his lesson with LE.   Nothing like that has happened since ... yet Buffalo did Okposo, Skinner and now Hall lol.     Don't care about the placeholders as in Gagne, Del Zotto etc, or the tweener's, Bear and Vey, we still sucked enough to get what we needed from the draft.    And Myers  .... screw that talk because we need the guy.   And he hasn't at all disappointed.     We need more Myers, Schmidt prime Edler types so won't go there, not less.   Ferland was for sure a mistake.   Whoops.   But he's on the LTIR, and when he does play....well it balances out more or less.   

 

Some folks think Seattle should take Myers.   I don't want them too.   Watched Rafferty (ok in his defense only one game), watched Chatfield (at best a 7/8 call-up and he got a lot of games), doubt Tree is going to be anything more then a 6-7 D on a good team .... but maybe i'm wrong there but also doubt he's even coming back.   Cap wise if anyone feels like to look back to when we had Ballard as the 7th D and compare cap hits percentage wise .... Myers at 6 doesn't look so bad does it?  

 

Anyways he's also taken advantage of Covid times and got Hamonic (who just like the rest of the team was terrible at the start... ) so can also see the other side of the coin.    But a team needs some structure and solidarity.   Myers and Schmidt and soon to be QHs cap hits matter on this front - same with to a lesser degrees Edler's next deal (if he gets one).   This year there is nobody better then Myers left aside from Hamilton which is a total lottery ticket.  As in who knows where he's going and CAR has a jump on anyone else.  Brodin and Petry signed.   Who's left?   Well a lot of folks wanted to trade BB plus plus for Dumba and Trouba a little...how's that working out?  Not good.  

 

Sorry for the diatrabe.   But JB can be excused for almost all his UFA contracts but LE.   And yes i also worry what he will do next because there really haven't been any home runs.   Why i said let all of them go last off season.  Hard to get max value over the duration of any UFA deal.   Also hope he stays away from the market but you can bet he will have to plug the 3 C hole and will also have to deal with Edler. 

[kanucks25]

18 minutes ago, aGENT said:

And a lot of misconstruing of what 'competitive' means while they're at it.

You can spin competitive to mean whatever you want it to mean to fit the desired narrative.

 

We haven't been competitive whatsoever (in the traditional sense of the term - AKA "not complete ass") for the majority of Benning's tenure and only the most extreme apologists would try to argue otherwise.

 

So go ahead.

Edited March 24, 2021 by kanucks25

[AV.]

38 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think JB takes a lot of unwarranted heat for trying to put competitive teams on the ice while we all wait for the young guns to mature.  

Meh.  If these are his best efforts at icing a competitive team, they leave a lot to be desired for.

 

At the same time, what young guns could he be possibly waiting for after 7 years on the job, 5 of which he drafted inside the top 10?

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

You can spin competitive to mean whatever you want it to mean to fit the desired narrative.

 

We haven't been competitive whatsoever (in the traditional sense of the term - AKA "not complete ass") for the majority of Benning's tenure and only the most extreme apologists would try to argue otherwise.

 

So go ahead.

Do you really think Petey e.g., would have developed this well this fast if he had poorer line mates, and not have guys like Beagle and Sutter to take the heavier minutes? I don't.

 

The vet's expiring this year and next are really from two batches. Loui and Sutter are Linden-era re-jig on the fly stuff. Beagle and Rooster were there for the kids to develop. 

 

Benning has had two tenures in reality. 

[kanucks25]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Do you really think Petey e.g., would have developed this well this fast if he had poorer line mates, and not have guys like Beagle and Sutter to take the heavier minutes? I don't.

 

The vet's expiring this year and next are really from two batches. Loui and Sutter are Linden-era re-jig on the fly stuff. Beagle and Rooster were there for the kids to develop. 

 

Benning has had two tenures in reality. 

Guys like Vesey, Leivo, Boyd, etc. can eat up garbage minutes just fine.

 

Even if you want to argue they aren't as good as a Beagle or a Sutter (whole other can of worms that isn't important right now), it doesn't really make much of a difference in the standings.

 

Benning has shown he can and is willing to acquire cheap players that don't require commitment, for some reason it just seems to be a last resort for him when there are no other options. He's done some nice things, but the story of his tenure will be that he always got in his own way.

Edited March 24, 2021 by kanucks25

[JM_]

21 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Jimmy McGill.... well said.  I have the same anxieties around JB going after a glut of UFAs again to plug holes.   But also understand why he did that going back to Miller (goalie) and Vrbata (targeted Iginla first got the second best UFA at the time).   Also feel he's learned his lesson with LE.   Nothing like that has happened since ... yet Buffalo did Okposo, Skinner and now Hall lol.     Don't care about the placeholders as in Gagne, Del Zotto etc, or the tweener's, Bear and Vey, we still sucked enough to get what we needed from the draft.    And Myers  .... screw that talk because we need the guy.   And he hasn't at all disappointed.     We need more Myers, Schmidt prime Edler types so won't go there, not less.   Ferland was for sure a mistake.   Whoops.   But he's on the LTIR, and when he does play....well it balances out more or less.   

 

Some folks think Seattle should take Myers.   I don't want them too.   Watched Rafferty (ok in his defense only one game), watched Chatfield (at best a 7/8 call-up and he got a lot of games), doubt Tree is going to be anything more then a 6-7 D on a good team .... but maybe i'm wrong there but also doubt he's even coming back.   Cap wise if anyone feels like to look back to when we had Ballard as the 7th D and compare cap hits percentage wise .... Myers at 6 doesn't look so bad does it?  

 

Anyways he's also taken advantage of Covid times and got Hamonic (who just like the rest of the team was terrible at the start... ) so can also see the other side of the coin.    But a team needs some structure and solidarity.   Myers and Schmidt and soon to be QHs cap hits matter on this front - same with to a lesser degrees Edler's next deal (if he gets one).   This year there is nobody better then Myers left aside from Hamilton which is a total lottery ticket.  As in who knows where he's going and CAR has a jump on anyone else.  Brodin and Petry signed.   Who's left?   Well a lot of folks wanted to trade BB plus plus for Dumba and Trouba a little...how's that working out?  Not good.  

 

Sorry for the diatrabe.   But JB can be excused for almost all his UFA contracts but LE.   And yes i also worry what he will do next because there really haven't been any home runs.   Why i said let all of them go last off season.  Hard to get max value over the duration of any UFA deal.   Also hope he stays away from the market but you can bet he will have to plug the 3 C hole and will also have to deal with Edler. 

don't be sorry, its good stuff and makes sense to me.

 

Rafferty and Chatifled are not on the top 6 next year, if they are we are in big trouble. Myers has played well, but he gets micro-critiqued on here by the Benning haters because they need to focus on that vs. the gains the team has made. 

 

As far as expansion goes, I can see a good argument to expose him as well as keep him. It all depends what the alternative is, but the only one I see right now is to pay Hamilton even more and he's a soft player, so thats a big risk too. Or maybe we lose Myers and use that cap to get an excellent 3C and another depth d UFA. I don't think its a disaster to lose him but you can't just throw that cap away.

 

[JM_]

Just now, kanucks25 said:

Guys like Vesey, Leivo, Boyd, etc. can eat up garbage minutes just fine.

 

Even if you want to argue they aren't as good as a Beagle or a Sutter (whole other can of worms that isn't important right now), it doesn't really make much of a difference in the standings.

 

Benning has shown he can and is willing to acquire cheap players that don't require commitment, for some reason it just seems to be a last resort for him when there are no other options. He's done some nice things, but the story of his tenure will be that he always got in his own way.

Sure it does, there's no way we go on a bubble playoff run like we did with "garbage minute" guys. That playoff experience was huge for Petey and Hughes in particular. 

[kanucks25]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Sure it does, there's no way we go on a bubble playoff run like we did with "garbage minute" guys. That playoff experience was huge for Petey and Hughes in particular. 

With better management we could have been a playoff team last year, this year, perhaps 2 years ago, perhaps earlier.

 

We don't live in a world where whatever Benning did is the best-case or only-case scenario.

 

(not to mention that there's an argument to be made that we only got an invite to the dance because of COVID)

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

With better management we could have been a playoff team last year, this year, perhaps 2 years ago, perhaps earlier.

 

We don't live in a world where whatever Benning did is the best-case or only-case scenario.

 

(not to mention that there's an argument to be made that we only got an invite to the dance because of COVID)

thats true, if we didn't have Loui's cap hit and dead Spooner money maybe we get by Vegas. Now that would have been something. 

 

I do think something that gets undervalued in the Benning critiques is the value of guys like Beagle in development of younger players. You could literally see Petey figure out playoff hockey in front of your eyes, that was fun to see. That does not happen if we're doing the replacement-player thing and don't make that run. 

 

Like I've said many times, imo Jim has been good on some things, bad on others. Like many GMs. With the Aqua-Linden plan to give the Sedin's one more go, I don't see how the 1st 4 years plays out any other way.  

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[kanucks25]

11 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I do think something that gets undervalued in the Benning critiques is the value of guys like Beagle in development of younger players. You could literally see Petey figure out playoff hockey in front of your eyes, that was fun to see. That does not happen if we're doing the replacement-player thing and don't make that run. 

Not saying veteran presence/leadership/etc. isn't important. The Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, etc. have talked about in the past what having Sundin around for not even a full season meant to their careers.

 

But there are a lot of "good guys" in the league that can eat an NHL shift that you don't need to sign for 3-4 years @ 3-4 mil. You can't assume that Beagle, Sutter, etc. were the only guys that could groom our prospects and anybody else would have been lesser.

 

13 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

With the Aqua-Linden plan to give the Sedin's one more go, I don't see how the 1st 4 years plays out any other way.  

So what are you suggesting Benning be fired for?

That original plan not working?

Or going along with the original plan thinking it was a good idea?

Or going along with the original plan, even though he knew it was a bad idea, but doing it anyway?

 

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Not saying veteran presence/leadership/etc. isn't important. The Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, etc. have talked about in the past what having Sundin around for not even a full season meant to their careers.

 

But there are a lot of "good guys" in the league that can eat an NHL shift that you don't need to sign for 3-4 years @ 3-4 mil. You can't assume that Beagle, Sutter, etc. were the only guys that could groom our prospects and anybody else would have been lesser.

 

So what are you suggesting Benning be fired for?

That original plan not working?

Or going along with the original plan thinking it was a good idea?

Or going along with the original plan, even though he knew it was a bad idea, but doing it anyway?

 

you won't get me to dump on Beagle, I'm a fan of his play and what he brings. Rooster... ugh, pre-knee injury it was looking good, now, not so much.

 

If you can show me who was out there, willing to come to us, that was better than Beagle for cheaper, I'm all ears.

 

If we must fire Benning, if we're going down that path for a moment, I'd say cap management. This year should have been better. That doesn't mean I wanted Marky and Tanev on their deals because I think letting them go was the right move, but still paying for Gagne and not finding a way to move Loui would be the reasons. I do not blame him for the Sedin re-jig crashing and burning, I put most of that on Linden and Aqua as they set the vision, Jim did his best to make it happen. 

 

But then that begs the question - who's better and available? Futa? another rookier GM? tell me who's out there that would be better for right now. 

[mll]

4 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

One can dream but what if they e3nded

If we expose Benn, Holtby, Gaudette, and MacEwen there could be the slimmest of chances they choose a Roussel, or Beagle. I mean one can dream right? Haha

Would be surprised if Seattle picks an expensive contract from Vancouver.

 

To give an idea of what it would take to move an unwanted 3M contract.  Staples for The Athletic NYI asked fans to submit trade proposals and he had a couple of NHL executives assess them.

 

Executive 1 doesn’t think Hall can bring back a 1st at the TDL, but he doesn’t think that 2x 1st (2021 & 2022) + Komarov can get Hall.  The cost to dump Komarov’s 3M contract in this flat cap world is near impossible according to him.

 

Would expect teams to have a hard time moving unwanted contracts.  Seattle might be able to make out like bandits if that’s the cost to clear 3M - it’s not even 2M on the cap if he gets demoted to the AHL.

 

There will probably be good players available at a more efficient cap hit in free agency than the players Vancouver wishes to move.  The trade market might not be any better than last off-season with the cap staying flat for several years.