Geoff Courtnall to return to Canucks?

[tas]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

nice. OK maybe I should have said 40  but I do think this is all for the consumption of the older, big spenders. 

 

I really don't agree with the idea that the fan base is behind any knee jerk kind of moves either, we've been a loyal bunch through a lot of rough times. 

you might want to check that math again.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, tas said:

you might want to check that math again.

why don't you check it for me 

[tas]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

why don't you check it for me 

I already know that being 3 years old in 1991 still makes you a lot younger than 40. 

[Chickenspear]

18 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

why don't you check it for me 

 

11 minutes ago, tas said:

I already know that being 3 years old in 1991 still makes you a lot younger than 40. 

 32

[stawns]

36 minutes ago, Josepho said:

Between comments from Miller/Horvat/Matthias/Toffoli, is it really that hard to believe that this management group is awful at communicating, and that that might impact their relationship with the players?

 

Anyone who's had a job ever should know going to work and trying your best is easier when you believe in the process. 

I think you're taking quotes from players that were answers to specific question in contextualizing them into those players making "statements"

[aGENT]

45 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

Green stated or at the very least implied JB want him back but ownership is not ponying up. So it is really players,coach,management vs. ownership.

The rift is the limitation of resources from Aqua's penny pinching. This management, coaching staff, and players were setup to fail and the reputation of the franchise now shows it. 

That is why I don't care if JB is fired or not cause nothing will fundamentally change if Francesco is still in charge or they don't hire a CEO for CSE.

Or its just The normal ebb and flow of a standard negotiation?

 

One where ownership/management have likely made a lower initial offer and Green and his representation are asking for more...

 

I remember when Edler was 100% leaving too according to our media.

[kloubek]

I am sure Courtnall would have the passion and would be a good addition. I say absolutely bring him in - but he said himself he's not cut out for a high level position so it would be more of a consultant role. I think if we are doing a management change here, it is highly beneficial to have some guys who are inherently loyal to the club from the beginning. Kinda like the Trevor Linden thing - with a better end result...

[24K PureCool]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Or its just The normal ebb and flow of a standard negotiation?

 

One where ownership/management have likely made a lower initial offer and Green and his representation are asking for more...

 

I remember when Edler was 100% leaving too according to our media.

At this point, it is not normal for coaches.

When was the last time you see an coach extended after the last game on their current contract. 

 

Edler is also not a good comparison as he is only going to play in Vancouver. 

 

Just admit ownership dropped the ball this season and setup the team for failure this season for understandably financial reasons due to Covid. 

 

That said, this is professional sports and if they are not willing to lose money to win, then maybe they are not in the right business. As it is very easy to lose money if ownership don't spend it in professional sports. 

[Josepho]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think you're taking quotes from players that were answers to specific question in contextualizing them into those players making "statements"

Okay, let's look at the gist of what all of these quotes:

 

Miller: clearly pissed off about how the schedule was formed.

Horvat: asked about support from management during COVID breakout, immediately mentions fan and family support without ever once mentioning management.

 

Any reasonable person can put 2 and 2 together here to realize that the players were very unhappy about the schedule that management/ownership agreed to. It's extremely naive to interpret these comments otherwise. Horvat is an NHL captain who has interviewed a ton, he clearly knows what he's doing there.

 

Matthias: said management didn't even tell him that they weren't going to offer him a contract.

 

This is just severely unprofessional and will &^@# over potential relations with future players. This is extremely basic stuff and Benning failed to do it.

 

Toffoli: basically just suggested management told him to wait while they were too busy chasing OEL, management didn't even offer a contract.

 

Also very unprofessional and shows a lack of planning. 

[Fred65]

I wonder about the Gillis drafting era. There's no doubt it wasn't great!! however a couple of things happened during his time that most seem to forget. 

 

Hodgson should have been a good pick but injuries and an overbearing father combined to kill his career. As I recall he was MVP in the last year of junior at the WJC. He was a good pick but for circumstances.

 

Schroeder was drafted, after... after Bettemman declared the days of clutching and grabbing were over in the NHL and small skilled  players should be allowed to show their skills without being mugged every shift. That lasted for about half a season. Gillis's problem was he believed Betteman and drafted Schroeder. I don't think Schroeder would have shone regardless but I think he might of survived.

 

Gillis drafted Horvat with a pick he got from Schneider ... and certainly got the best of that transaction.

 

The problem with comparing drafting it excludes every thing outside of drafting ie the FA signing of NCAA defenseman Christ Tanev and under very difficult circumstances ( Mrs Loungo needing to have him home where she and her piazza loving family could keep an eye on him) Gillis aquired Markstrom. So some times drafting in isloation paints the bad picture, 2+2 is not always = 4. I'm no fan of thee Gillis drafting era but there were some bright spots to. Where would Vcr be without Horvat might be a question to ask yourself

[JM_]

1 hour ago, tas said:

I already know that being 3 years old in 1991 still makes you a lot younger than 40. 

cool beans, I bet that memory of Courtnall is still sharp from when you were 3. 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, 24K PureCool said:

At this point, it is not normal for coaches.

When was the last time you see an coach extended after the last game on their current contract. 

 

Edler is also not a good comparison as he is only going to play in Vancouver. 

 

Just admit ownership dropped the ball this season and setup the team for failure this season for understandably financial reasons due to Covid. 

 

That said, this is professional sports and if they are not willing to lose money to win, then maybe they are not in the right business. As it is very easy to lose money if ownership don't spend it in professional sports. 

First, what the hell HAS been normal about this season?

 

It's less common but not completely unheard of to see an extension at/past this point.

 

I don't need to 'admit' to anything. Until there's some actual facts like Green getting a contract elsewhere/us hiring another coach etc, this is all the same, usual, hyperbole and conjecture that our trash media always peddles 

 

[tas]

29 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

cool beans, I bet that memory of Courtnall is still sharp from when you were 3. 

I mean, I was 5 in '91 personally, but my memories of him from '94 are pretty clear and I'm only 34. 

[whirledpeas]

What wholesome Canuck fan wouldn't want Geoff Courtnall in the org. he could be a the mentor for Jake Virtanen plus the added bonus of taking the heat off the slum lord blueberry farmer.

[Hairy Kneel]

1 hour ago, kloubek said:

I am sure Courtnall would have the passion and would be a good addition. I say absolutely bring him in - but he said himself he's not cut out for a high level position so it would be more of a consultant role. I think if we are doing a management change here, it is highly beneficial to have some guys who are inherently loyal to the club from the beginning. Kinda like the Trevor Linden thing - with a better end result...

I agree that if Courtnall himself has said those kinds of things then I'd rather see someone like Ryan Johnson be moved up to a president role. In past interviews he's sounded very competent in his role with Utica. 

[canuck73_3]

Being part of a sexual assault case in 1990_ I think hiring Courtnall as Jake is being investigated is a bad and tone deaf move. 

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Being part of a sexual assault case in 1990_ I think hiring Courtnall as Jake is being investigated is a bad and tone deaf move. 

maybe, but there wasn't enough evidence for charges or for a civil case. Not sure what that means by todays standards but it does mean something, and I can see how some people would be legitimately bothered by it. 

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

maybe, but there wasn't enough evidence for charges or for a civil case. Not sure what that means by todays standards but it does mean something, and I can see how some people would be legitimately bothered by it. 

Not a good look at all given current circumstances. 

[wallstreetamigo]

The issues go much further than just a GM or a coach.

 

Elliotte Friedman made some good points about the management and business structure having significantly eroding since the Gillis days.

 

There are essentially 3 or 4 voices in the room making all the key decisions now. They have fired/let go of a President and Head of Amateur Scouting (and I believe also eliminated their head of player development specific role) and have not replaced them. Benning, Weisbrod, and Gear are the only ones overseeing all of that now. 

 

Its been credibly reported that the Canucks have one of the thinnest front offices in the NHL.

 

Courtnall isnt the answer.

 

If they are going to consolidate that much decision making in such a small group then its obvious huge errors will be made.

 

People hate Gillis but as a Presiddnt he was really forward thinking. And he got Aquilini to pony up the dough for a functional front office. Of course, a winning team and playoff revenue minus a pandemic helped with that.

 

The problem is Benning, Weisbrod, and Gear are not good enough individually or collectively at such a wide range of management responsibilities. In fairness to them, it would be difficult for any group of 3 people to handle what they are foing and not "run out of time".

 

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

I wonder about the Gillis drafting era. There's no doubt it wasn't great!! however a couple of things happened during his time that most seem to forget. 

 

Hodgson should have been a good pick but injuries and an overbearing father combined to kill his career. As I recall he was MVP in the last year of junior at the WJC. He was a good pick but for circumstances.

 

Schroeder was drafted, after... after Bettemman declared the days of clutching and grabbing were over in the NHL and small skilled  players should be allowed to show their skills without being mugged every shift. That lasted for about half a season. Gillis's problem was he believed Betteman and drafted Schroeder. I don't think Schroeder would have shone regardless but I think he might of survived.

 

Gillis drafted Horvat with a pick he got from Schneider ... and certainly got the best of that transaction.

 

The problem with comparing drafting it excludes every thing outside of drafting ie the FA signing of NCAA defenseman Christ Tanev and under very difficult circumstances ( Mrs Loungo needing to have him home where she and her piazza loving family could keep an eye on him) Gillis aquired Markstrom. So some times drafting in isloation paints the bad picture, 2+2 is not always = 4. I'm no fan of thee Gillis drafting era but there were some bright spots to. Where would Vcr be without Horvat might be a question to ask yourself

Horvat was obtained by trading Schneider, a Nonis pick. I think an equally interesting question would be what would happen if Horvat didn't pan out, considering how poor the drafting/development period was.

 

Hutton and Horvat are practically the only pieces from a time period - one of which was obtained through trading an established player from another regime. So yes, Gillis was really bad at drafting/developing, and this has played a role in our current roster.