[Trade] Canucks trade Jay Beagle, Loui Eriksson, Antoine Roussel, 2021 1st-round pick, 2022 2nd-round pick, 2023 7th-round pick to Coyotes for Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland

[dougieL]

5 hours ago, coryberg said:

Yep! All 3000 fans in their tiny little arena, watching their 31st place team lose night in and night out while any player who shows a pulse is sent packing. They are most certainly laughing.

I was talking about Arz the organization, and their having gotten rid of the OEL deal having only to retain under 1m. But good job trying to belittle my point with completely irrelevant points. As if Arz's lack of fans or arena makes this trade any less stupid 

Edited December 8, 2022 by dougieL

[Jester13]

5 hours ago, HKSR said:

Not gonna lie, I supported Benning all along, but this trade even had me baffled.

 

We could have waited 1 more year.  1 more year and we would have had all the flexibility we needed. 

One fact I feel gets lost with this trade is the comments Bo and Petey made before the trade happened on how they both want to play for a playoff team. Their strong hints that the team had to improve, or else, forced Benning to make this trade, as our top guys obviously didn't want to play the upcoming year with the same team that had Loui & Co on it. 

[coryberg]

1 hour ago, dougieL said:

I was talking about Arz the organization, and their having gotten rid of the OEL deal having only to retain under 1m. But good job trying to belittle my point with completely irrelevant points. As if Arz's lack of fans or arena makes this trade any less stupid 

Yep! Arizona management in their tiny little arena, watching their 31st place team lose night in and night out while any player who shows a pulse is sent packing. They are most certainly laughing.

 

Fixed it for you 

[iinatcc]

Sportsnet 650 called this the worst trade in Canucks history. They may be right, this trade may have not only wasted Horvat and Boesers but also the peak years of Pettersson and Hughes 

[dougieL]

29 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

Sportsnet 650 called this the worst trade in Canucks history. They may be right, this trade may have not only wasted Horvat and Boesers but also the peak years of Pettersson and Hughes 

One big reason the Neely trade ended up being awful is because Neely turned out to be awesome. This is a trade that was awful the moment it was made, is awful now, and will be viewed as awful 10 years from now.

[iinatcc]

6 hours ago, dougieL said:

One big reason the Neely trade ended up being awful is because Neely turned out to be awesome. This is a trade that was awful the moment it was made, is awful now, and will be viewed as awful 10 years from now.

I think Neely is an oops moment for the Canucks the same way Penguins trading away Naslund was an oops moment for them. It sucks but a team can just move on from it.

 

This trade has more long terms impacts to the Canucks from losing a potential prospect, no cap flexibility, etc.

[canucklehead44]

13 hours ago, dougieL said:

One big reason the Neely trade ended up being awful is because Neely turned out to be awesome. This is a trade that was awful the moment it was made, is awful now, and will be viewed as awful 10 years from now.

The Neely trade would have been like us trading Virtanen after his third season plus a first round pick for Tyler Seguin without a salary cap. At the time it looked like a good trade - its just everything went right for Boston. 

There is no guarantee Neely would have turned it around in Vancouver - his goal totals dipped from 21 to 14 and was a -30, I don't think he would have followed up 3 disappointing seasons with 30+ goals but nobody knows. 

Also Glen Wesley was a great pick but right after him went McBean, Chris Joseph, and Dave Archibald - again no guarantee. 

Barry Pederson was also a point per game player for his first two seasons (similar point totals as the year before in Boston) and overall put up ok numbers - he is also in the Geoff Courtnall/Momesso/Ronning trade trade so this trade was more so "great for Boston" than hurting the Canucks. 

The OEL trade was terrible no matter how you sliced it. Dylan Guenther is a top 15 NHL prospect, and not only that there were three fantastic RHD drafted at a 50, 53, and 55 when we had the 47 pick. Garland is giving us about 3.7M in value right now and OEL maybe 4 million? So even if Guenther is a bust Arizona still wins this trade by a landslide - its just him having an NHL career will be salt in the wound.

And this is still early on - it will only get worse. The cost of unloading OEL will be enormous and Garland has playing his way to having zero value as well given his cap hit. We essentially gave up two good prospects for negative value - at least Barry Pederson was worth something. 

 

This is the type of trade you make to win the cup or you have an expiring window for your star players - like when the Raptors went all in for Leonard and won the championship, it was a huge cost but worth it. We weren't even a playoff team nor completed our rebuild. Every bad move Gillis made combined is a fraction as bad as this one trade by Benning. It was like a snowballing of terrible decisions. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by canucklehead44

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

The Neely trade would have been like us trading Virtanen after his third season plus a first round pick for Tyler Seguin without a salary cap. At the time it looked like a good trade - its just everything went right for Boston. 

There is no guarantee Neely would have turned it around in Vancouver - his goal totals dipped from 21 to 14 and was a -30, I don't think he would have followed up 3 disappointing seasons with 30+ goals but nobody knows. 

Also Glen Wesley was a great pick but right after him went McBean, Chris Joseph, and Dave Archibald - again no guarantee. 

Barry Pederson was also a point per game player for his first two seasons (similar point totals as the year before in Boston) and overall put up ok numbers - he is also in the Geoff Courtnall/Momesso/Ronning trade trade so this trade was more so "great for Boston" than hurting the Canucks. 

The OEL trade was terrible no matter how you sliced it. Dylan Guenther is a top 15 NHL prospect, and not only that there were three fantastic RHD drafted at a 50, 53, and 55 when we had the 47 pick. Garland is giving us about 3.7M in value right now and OEL maybe 4 million? So even if Guenther is a bust Arizona still wins this trade by a landslide - its just him having an NHL career will be salt in the wound.

And this is still early on - it will only get worse. The cost of unloading OEL will be enormous and Garland has playing his way to having zero value as well given his cap hit. We essentially gave up two good prospects for negative value - at least Barry Pederson was worth something. 

 

This is the type of trade you make to win the cup or you have an expiring window for your star players - like when the Raptors went all in for Leonard and won the championship, it was a huge cost but worth it. We weren't even a playoff team nor completed our rebuild. Every bad move Gillis made combined is a fraction as bad as this one trade by Benning. It was like a snowballing of terrible decisions. 

Guys on 650 saying that our owner was pushing Benning to make “win now” trades.  For sure Benning made our worse trade ever, but did he have a choice?  Nonis did say in his recent interview that he refused our owner’s request to give up futures (Edler and Kessler at the time) to get Brad richards. And that got him fired.  

[canucklehead44]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Guys on 650 saying that our owner was pushing Benning to make “win now” trades.  For sure Benning made our worse trade ever, but did he have a choice?  Nonis did say in his recent interview that he refused our owner’s request to give up futures (Edler and Kessler at the time) to get Brad richards. And that got him fired.  

Ownership is definitely to blame but Benning also spent money on terrible players. Even though the team is a bit of a mess I think JR and Allvin have done a fantastic job with trades and signings with the exception of the Dickinson deal. But even with that one - if we traded a 2nd + Dickinson for Bear with salary retained and then a 5th for Stillman I would have liked those deals so in the big picture they are still ahead.

Edited December 9, 2022 by canucklehead44

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

Ownership is definitely to blame but Benning also spent money on terrible players. Even though the team is a bit of a mess I think JR and Allvin have done a fantastic job with trades and signings with the exception of the Dickinson deal. But even with that one - if we traded a 2nd + Dickinson for Bear with salary retained and then a 5th for Stillman I would have liked those deals so in the big picture they are still ahead.

Agreed that the new group is doing better than Benning did but the direction is still the same.  We will see if Bo is traded for futures, for other guys already at their ceiling, or we extend him with a big contract.  IMHAO it will not be the first option.  

[Mustard Tiger]

Can this just be deleted. H8 seeing this topic 

[awalk]

1 hour ago, Mustard Tiger said:

Can this just be deleted. H8 seeing this topic 

100% and if we could just go back and delete this trade too while we are at it 

[MeanSeanBean]

16 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Sportsnet 650 called this the worst trade in Canucks history. They may be right, this trade may have not only wasted Horvat and Boesers but also the peak years of Pettersson and Hughes 

Yupp... I was part of the vocal minority when this trade went down that hated it. Took a ton of heat at the time, and did for months after when my opinion never waived. Validation is supposed to help things, but this one just feels gross. 

[AnthonyG]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Guys on 650 saying that our owner was pushing Benning to make “win now” trades.  For sure Benning made our worse trade ever, but did he have a choice?  Nonis did say in his recent interview that he refused our owner’s request to give up futures (Edler and Kessler at the time) to get Brad richards. And that got him fired.  

He also made one of our best trades, (JT Miller) which increased in value and our current management group sh!t the bed on turning it into a fortune and now we risk losing Horvat whos younger and a better 2way player and an untamed beast in the circle and we’ll have an aging JT Miller and Horvat still has 4-5 really good years of hockey before he begins to slow. Miller has a 2-3.. Benning handed this group assets he had to fight for and spend time drafting and building. 
Miller+Garland would have netted the exact same we gave away in both the Miller and OEL/Garland deals, PLUS would net a prospect and or young player. Millers value at last TDL was at peak value.. so really the JTM and OEL trades would offset each other and with Garland it would have a positive value IF… IF our braindead management group actually moved Miller and re-signed Bo.

 

also… Cam Neely. By far the worst trade ever.

[ShawnAntoski]

7 hours ago, canucklehead44 said:

The Neely trade would have been like us trading Virtanen after his third season plus a first round pick for Tyler Seguin without a salary cap. At the time it looked like a good trade - its just everything went right for Boston. 

There is no guarantee Neely would have turned it around in Vancouver - his goal totals dipped from 21 to 14 and was a -30, I don't think he would have followed up 3 disappointing seasons with 30+ goals but nobody knows. 

Also Glen Wesley was a great pick but right after him went McBean, Chris Joseph, and Dave Archibald - again no guarantee. 

Barry Pederson was also a point per game player for his first two seasons (similar point totals as the year before in Boston) and overall put up ok numbers - he is also in the Geoff Courtnall/Momesso/Ronning trade trade so this trade was more so "great for Boston" than hurting the Canucks. 

The OEL trade was terrible no matter how you sliced it. Dylan Guenther is a top 15 NHL prospect, and not only that there were three fantastic RHD drafted at a 50, 53, and 55 when we had the 47 pick. Garland is giving us about 3.7M in value right now and OEL maybe 4 million? So even if Guenther is a bust Arizona still wins this trade by a landslide - its just him having an NHL career will be salt in the wound.

And this is still early on - it will only get worse. The cost of unloading OEL will be enormous and Garland has playing his way to having zero value as well given his cap hit. We essentially gave up two good prospects for negative value - at least Barry Pederson was worth something. 

 

This is the type of trade you make to win the cup or you have an expiring window for your star players - like when the Raptors went all in for Leonard and won the championship, it was a huge cost but worth it. We weren't even a playoff team nor completed our rebuild. Every bad move Gillis made combined is a fraction as bad as this one trade by Benning. It was like a snowballing of terrible decisions. 

Yeah, Aquamans tendency to give out short term deals - has only handcuffed, all his FO's.   The endeavor is still profitable and it will continue: NHL Purgatory,  for the foreseeable future 

[awalk]

5 hours ago, Shayster007 said:

Yupp... I was part of the vocal minority when this trade went down that hated it. Took a ton of heat at the time, and did for months after when my opinion never waived. Validation is supposed to help things, but this one just feels gross. 

I called it a GM making a desperate play to save his job and that was not well received here 

and in the end, the validation sucks because the trade still happened... 

 

But hey maybe OEL will have an Eriksson-lite career comeback at some point and we'll be able to trade him. 

[PhillipBlunt]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:08 AM, DeNiro said:

Benning was so obviously just making it up as he went. 
 

Like every free agent signing or trade was made because the player wanted to be in Vancouver. Yet he still overpaid every time.

 

OEL said he only wanted to come here or Boston. So Benning became obsessed with acquiring him.

 

Eriksson was another one who clearly wanted to play with the Sedins, yet he still gave him a ridiculous deal.

 

Same thing with Myers too. We were clearly his number 1 choice yet again we paid market value.

 

Its like he had none of his own targets in mind he just waited for players to say they wanted to come here.

 

I think you’re right. Benning should have never been a GM. He lacked the capabilities that a strong GM needs to build a team that can actually contend. Benning was a great scout, but that’s where his strengths really topped out at. 

[dougieL]

9 hours ago, canucklehead44 said:

The Neely trade would have been like us trading Virtanen after his third season plus a first round pick for Tyler Seguin without a salary cap. At the time it looked like a good trade - its just everything went right for Boston. 

There is no guarantee Neely would have turned it around in Vancouver - his goal totals dipped from 21 to 14 and was a -30, I don't think he would have followed up 3 disappointing seasons with 30+ goals but nobody knows. 

Also Glen Wesley was a great pick but right after him went McBean, Chris Joseph, and Dave Archibald - again no guarantee. 

Barry Pederson was also a point per game player for his first two seasons (similar point totals as the year before in Boston) and overall put up ok numbers - he is also in the Geoff Courtnall/Momesso/Ronning trade trade so this trade was more so "great for Boston" than hurting the Canucks. 

The OEL trade was terrible no matter how you sliced it. Dylan Guenther is a top 15 NHL prospect, and not only that there were three fantastic RHD drafted at a 50, 53, and 55 when we had the 47 pick. Garland is giving us about 3.7M in value right now and OEL maybe 4 million? So even if Guenther is a bust Arizona still wins this trade by a landslide - its just him having an NHL career will be salt in the wound.

And this is still early on - it will only get worse. The cost of unloading OEL will be enormous and Garland has playing his way to having zero value as well given his cap hit. We essentially gave up two good prospects for negative value - at least Barry Pederson was worth something. 

 

This is the type of trade you make to win the cup or you have an expiring window for your star players - like when the Raptors went all in for Leonard and won the championship, it was a huge cost but worth it. We weren't even a playoff team nor completed our rebuild. Every bad move Gillis made combined is a fraction as bad as this one trade by Benning. It was like a snowballing of terrible decisions. 

You lay it out very clearly here. How people fail to understand this is beyond me.

[higgyfan]

45 minutes ago, dougieL said:

You lay it out very clearly here. How people fail to understand this is beyond me.

Most of the members on this board were either not born or too young to care about a trade that happened in 1986.

 

Not having the patience to wait out those 3 contracts for the season (so that he could bring back OEL) was

a grave error for sure.  

 

Everyone knows that OEL is underperforming by $3m ($4m replacement value) and the long term is

creating havoc on the team's salary cap.  It's what it is. 

 

Going on & on about the trade has no effect on the outcome and clarifies nothing.

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

10 hours ago, canucklehead44 said:

The Neely trade would have been like us trading Virtanen after his third season plus a first round pick for Tyler Seguin without a salary cap. At the time it looked like a good trade - its just everything went right for Boston. 

There is no guarantee Neely would have turned it around in Vancouver - his goal totals dipped from 21 to 14 and was a -30, I don't think he would have followed up 3 disappointing seasons with 30+ goals but nobody knows. 

Also Glen Wesley was a great pick but right after him went McBean, Chris Joseph, and Dave Archibald - again no guarantee. 

Barry Pederson was also a point per game player for his first two seasons (similar point totals as the year before in Boston) and overall put up ok numbers - he is also in the Geoff Courtnall/Momesso/Ronning trade trade so this trade was more so "great for Boston" than hurting the Canucks. 

The OEL trade was terrible no matter how you sliced it. Dylan Guenther is a top 15 NHL prospect, and not only that there were three fantastic RHD drafted at a 50, 53, and 55 when we had the 47 pick. Garland is giving us about 3.7M in value right now and OEL maybe 4 million? So even if Guenther is a bust Arizona still wins this trade by a landslide - its just him having an NHL career will be salt in the wound.

And this is still early on - it will only get worse. The cost of unloading OEL will be enormous and Garland has playing his way to having zero value as well given his cap hit. We essentially gave up two good prospects for negative value - at least Barry Pederson was worth something. 

 

This is the type of trade you make to win the cup or you have an expiring window for your star players - like when the Raptors went all in for Leonard and won the championship, it was a huge cost but worth it. We weren't even a playoff team nor completed our rebuild. Every bad move Gillis made combined is a fraction as bad as this one trade by Benning. It was like a snowballing of terrible decisions. 

You're omitting one homegrown talent right in our backyard.  Some nobody name Joe Sakic.  But of course, with ace amateur scout Delorme who "found" Elias, of course he would've convinced the GM to pick Sakic had we kept our first round pick that year.  Same 'horse whisperer' that found another prospect playing for the Vancouver Giants (Brendan Gallagher).

Edited December 10, 2022 by NewbieCanuckFan