Josepho Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, JM_ said: not sure how you can't see it as anything other than damage control at this point, thats a big miss on such a high pick. It's pretty much the opposite of damage control. He's publicly admitting to being wrong about that pick and is cutting his costs while he can get maximum value. Damage control would be force-feeding Kotkaniemi undeserved PP minutes to boost his point totals to make the pick look better or whatever. We would've been better off moving on from Juolevi or Virtanen (even excluding the off-ice stuff) similarly, when we saw that their development wasn't going particularly well. The best trade of the last decade came from when Islanders admit that they were wrong about Griiffin Reinhart in 2015. On a smaller scale, Pittsburgh got a 4th for Pouliot and they sure as hell wouldn't have been able to if they held onto him for another year desperately hoping that their top 10 pick would figure things out. There are lots of teams that still stupidly bite on a disappointing/flatlining player because they were drafted high and it usually doesn't work out well for the buyer. Edited September 5, 2021 by Josepho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alflives Posted September 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, Josepho said: It's pretty much the opposite of damage control. He's publicly admitting to being wrong about that pick and is cutting his costs while he can get maximum value. We would've been better off moving on from Juolevi or Virtanen (even excluding the off-ice stuff) similarly, when we saw that their development wasn't going particularly well. The best trade of the last decade came from when Islanders admit that they were wrong about Griiffin Reinhart in 2015. On a smaller scale, Pittsburgh got a 4th for Pouliot and they sure as hell wouldn't have been able to if they held onto him for another year desperately hoping that their top 10 pick would figure things out. There are lots of teams that still stupidly bite on a disappointing/flatlining player because they were drafted high and it usually doesn't work out well for the buyer. No he (Bergevin) isn’t maximizing value. First He got embarrassed losing JK to the Canes, and then bent over a barrel by the Coyotes in his foolish trade for Dvorak. He lost his Danault replacent, and then paid his first round pick (likely 11-15th) in a draft that is in Montreal in a sad attempt to fix his error. This is almost as bad as his giving up Sergachev for Drouin! OMG! lmfaao. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josepho Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: No he (Bergevin) isn’t maximizing value. First He got embarrassed losing JK to the Canes, and then bent over a barrel by the Coyotes in his foolish trade for Dvorak. He lost his Danault replacent, and then paid his first round pick (likely 11-15th) in a draft that is in Montreal in a sad attempt to fix his error. This is almost as bad as his giving up Sergachev for Drouin! OMG! lmfaao. Why did he get embarrassed? He got decent value for what is currently a flatlining middle 6 player and Carolina is now paying way too much for him. His draft position is completely irrelevant in terms of evaluating who the player is today. Did the Islanders get embarrassed when they lost Reinhart to Edmonton in 2015? I'm not totally sure if trading for Dvorak makes sense for a team in Montreal's position (and I personally probably would've just kept the picks), but at this point he's very likely to be a better asset than Kotkaniemi moving forward and a young 2C for an 11-15 pick isn't even a bad trade. Edited September 5, 2021 by Josepho 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 7 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Pretty decent recovery for Bergevin actually. Essentially Kotkaniemi at 6.1 mil expiring next year and a future 2nd for Dvorak at 4 and change for 4 more years and a 3rd. Agreed plus the Habs media (at least from TSN) don't really see Kotkaniemi as anything but a bottom 6 center at this point. Though they also admit this was due to the Habs rushing him in the NHL. That said Bergevin did the best he could in a no win situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 2 hours ago, stawns said: I feel like they're living out the hockey version of Major League. I expect Loui to have a shrine to Jobu in his stall or like the old Montreal Expos - minus the scouting (Yotes scouting, even when you consider their low operating budget, sucks Gillis type bad! I mean, even the Expos were able to scout, sign & develop legit baseball hall of famers like our "hometown BC boy" Larry Walker, Andre Dawson, Gary Carter, and Tim Raines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Garland and Dvorak are the same age... Dvorak has played quit a few more games than Garland at this point in his career, but Garland has a higher points per game average Anyway just an interesting comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucksownyou Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 It's amazing seeing scabs fans thinking their team is somehow contenders still after all this. Their trip to the finals is fooling people into thinking they are better than they actually are. In a normal season, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Nucksownyou said: It's amazing seeing scabs fans thinking their team is somehow contenders still after all this. Their trip to the finals is fooling people into thinking they are better than they actually are. In a normal season, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs. “Scabs”. I have not heard that before; I like it! Fits Bergevin perfectly! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Josepho said: It's pretty much the opposite of damage control. He's publicly admitting to being wrong about that pick and is cutting his costs while he can get maximum value. Damage control would be force-feeding Kotkaniemi undeserved PP minutes to boost his point totals to make the pick look better or whatever. We would've been better off moving on from Juolevi or Virtanen (even excluding the off-ice stuff) similarly, when we saw that their development wasn't going particularly well. The best trade of the last decade came from when Islanders admit that they were wrong about Griiffin Reinhart in 2015. On a smaller scale, Pittsburgh got a 4th for Pouliot and they sure as hell wouldn't have been able to if they held onto him for another year desperately hoping that their top 10 pick would figure things out. There are lots of teams that still stupidly bite on a disappointing/flatlining player because they were drafted high and it usually doesn't work out well for the buyer. Agreed on Jake but not Juolevi. OJ has had injuries hamper his development and we really don't know what he is yet. What Bergeclown did is damage control from the pov of salvaging value. But he may also be wrong. If JK hits 60 pts next year e.g. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 I feel like this is quite an over pay for Dvorak probably should have just taken the picks. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 19 hours ago, Crabcakes said: I doubt Carolina ever thought that Montreal wouldn't match. They went off the board when the drafted KK and now, he performs more to the expected level of a mid-1st round pick and $6.1 is a big over payment. The real tragedy here is that Kotkaneimi, if he doesn't live up to his $6.1M, will wind up not getting qualified next year and then what??? I don't think so. This was very carefully crafted to have either a solid chance of succeeding (it did) or completely handcuffing MTL's cap. I'd be shocked if they don't already have a largely agreed upon, cheaper, longer term extension. I doubt the QO even comes in to play. This was a very shrewd move with a solid helping of revenge on the side. And all it cost CAR was one piddly year of cap space they had, and a late 1st/3rd to add a promising, young F. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 12 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: So Arizona currently has over $11 million in cap space. They are collecting 1st round picks like there is going to be a shortage. Maybe they are looking at making an offer sheet to a big time RFA. At a cap hit over $10 million. I wonder who is left out there that could possibly be worth $10 million? I know you're joking, and that is not Arizona's plan as they will rebuild with the picks - but its reasonably likely that all four 1st round picks in the next 4 years will be lottery and maybe all top 4. That would be a heck of a haul! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mackcanuck Posted September 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2021 5 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Mackcanuck said: Excellent point. Miller is a far superior player to Dvorak too. Miller is a 70 point, top line power forward. And he cost us pick 20. Habs are very likely giving up pick 11-15 for Dvorak, who is, at best, a second line player on a horrid team. Bergevin should have kept those picks. Stupid move on his part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isam Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Alflives said: No he (Bergevin) isn’t maximizing value. First He got embarrassed losing JK to the Canes, and then bent over a barrel by the Coyotes in his foolish trade for Dvorak. He lost his Danault replacent, and then paid his first round pick (likely 11-15th) in a draft that is in Montreal in a sad attempt to fix his error. This is almost as bad as his giving up Sergachev for Drouin! OMG! lmfaao. Not even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isam Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Dvorak is a player on the rise with a career 51.5 faceoff percentage in the dot with some surprisingly good underlying numbers. Mtrl did good to clean up that offer sheet 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, aGENT said: I don't think so. This was very carefully crafted to have either a solid chance of succeeding (it did) or completely handcuffing MTL's cap. I'd be shocked if they don't already have a largely agreed upon, cheaper, longer term extension. I doubt the QO even comes in to play. This was a very shrewd move with a solid helping of revenge on the side. And all it cost CAR was one piddly year of cap space they had, and a late 1st/3rd to add a promising, young F. Maybe you know this, I'm not finding the answer easily online. Most RFA's force a team into making a qualifying offer if their contract is expiring because they will get a minimum offer depending on their salary. In the case of kk it would be 100% of his salary in their final year (since it's >$1M). However, kk could accept less if he signed before the QO deadline? Unusual but possible? Re-reading, I guess this is what you're saying. Edited September 6, 2021 by Crabcakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarcore Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 On 9/4/2021 at 4:02 PM, Alflives said: Quebec City is going to have a better team than Montreal! Considering how good the Nordiques were when they left they'd deserve it. Unlike those cow pokers in Denver. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: Maybe you know this, I'm not finding the answer easily online. Most RFA's force a team into making a qualifying offer if their contract is expiring because they will get a minimum offer depending on their salary. In the case of kk it would be 100% of his salary in their final year (since it's >$1M). However, kk could accept less if he signed before the QO deadline? Unusual but possible? Re-reading, I guess this is what you're saying. Likely a handshake deal in place. Wouldn't be surprised to see it happen in January 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beary Sweet Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 Good pick up for the Habs. Dvorak is a proven commodity and has been a solid scorer since coming into the league. He’s a decent upgrade over KK but time will tell on how it’ll work out for the Habs. For now, I think it’ll work out for the Habs especially if KK doesn’t get extended by CAR after his contract expires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now