CanucksJay Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, JM_ said: its not entitled to get your market value though. What is market value for them? I feel like JB wouldhave already offered that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 1 minute ago, CanucksJay said: Horvat signed a team friendly deal So did Boeser So did the Sedins So did Edler So did Salo Maybe we are spoiled as we had great character guys who sacrificed for the team previously. I am curious though. maybe i'm missing something Why do you side with the players? My thought would be that a a fan of the team, I want our GM to stretch the money as much as possible and sign as much talent as possible when restricted by a team salary cap. Signing someone for maximum value in a salary cap era has a direct correlation to who else a GM can sign. I want the Canucks to be a perrenial contender and a cup champion. Best way this can be achieved is by signing Petterson and Hughes to fair deals (fair is relative I suppose) Players have more risk. I could be wrong but I just think that. I don't think Horvat or Brock took pay cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 1 minute ago, CanucksJay said: What is market value for them? I feel like JB wouldhave already offered that That is the hard part!!! Hard to value and probably many factors we don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-P Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Agree that we need to chill a bit... 2 rational facts a bit lost in all this: 1) players holding out is a consequence of the CBA, it's the only leverage players have, IMO there's lots of flaws in the RFA construction but that's another discussion 2) the budget for these contracts was determined by the franchise months ago, no way that suddenly changes so I think it's more of an issue with term more than anything, having both on e.g. 3 year deals might be hard to handle, but anyway there's no way either player is getting 9-10 mil on a shorter deal just because of the threat of holding out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Chris12345 said: Totally. I mean I don't have proof but if you wanted to win why would you sign in Van? I ain't bashing here but you should take league minimum to play in Tampa.....or every player should sign in Van for league min. I can only really recall 3 really friendly team deals. You especially don't take a team friendly deal at 22. Could have a career ending injury at any time. Maybe at 33 once you have made you money and want a cup. To be honest I think its a scale and every players leans in one direction or another to varying degrees. Everyone has different priorities and I can't fault you for trying to maximize your family's financial security. I wouldn't have too much of an issue if one of these players came out and said "I want to get paid". I know they wouldn't because its bad optics and I don't expect them to. But I do have an issue when players say "I want to win" but then hold out for every nickel and dime and then its somehow entirely management's fault the team isn't a winner. If your attitude is "I want to get paid the absolute maximum amount I can but also play for a winner, everybody else just needs to suck it up and go around me" then I lose respect. Edited September 21, 2021 by McBackup 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chris12345 said: Totally. I mean I don't have proof but if you wanted to win why would you sign in Van? I ain't bashing here but you should take league minimum to play in Tampa.....or every player should sign in Van for league min. I can only recall 3 really friendly team deals. You especially don't take a team friendly deal at 22. Could have a career ending injury at any time. Maybe at 33 once you have made you money and want a cup. You do make a good point here. I guess the other way of looking at this is Toronto. They sign their stars and then guys like Thornton and Spezza come for chump change and in Spezza's case, outperforms the stars of the team. Thornton and Spezza only came because Marner, Matthews and Tavares gives the Leafs a chance to win. But then again, what if Spezza and Thornton weren't from Toronto and it wasn't their home town team the idolized growing up. Would they still have signed for chump change to come? I doubt it. If Van overpays on Hughes and Petterson, who comes to Van at the twighlight of their career lookign for a cup? Nugent Hopkins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Don’t let the media and this hold out fuel you, for all we know JB may be trying to get them to sign 5 million dollar deals. JB is a rockstar with RFA’s. Can we just reserve judgement until we see what happens here. Feel a lot of anger and tension from fans here. Let it do it’s thing then we will see where we’re at. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrago Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, JM_ said: its not entitled to get your market value though. What is their market value? They both had down years last year. This on a contract year, sure EP got hurt last year (which in my opinion doesn't strengthen his value) but he wasn't lighting the world on fire before that. They both seem to want to blame the team around them, yet at the same time want to make huge money (which means the teams success or lack of it is largely on them). They are playing both sides of the coin and teaming up to form a mini Union to do so and quiet frankly it's starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: What is market value for them? I feel like JB wouldhave already offered that 8 mil +/- 500k. I'm sure he has. This does really feel like its all driven from the agent side to create as much pressure as possible. I think the agent is using us as a test case for his next round of negotiations with other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Just now, Devron44 said: Don’t let the media and this hold out fuel you, for all we know JB may be trying to get them to sign 5 million dollar deals. JB is a rockstar with RFA’s. Can we just reserve judgement until we see what happens here. Feel a lot of anger and tension from fans here. Let it do it’s thing then we will see where we’re at. I'm going to really take this to heart. I love both players. And this team. I'm going to wash my mouth out with soap now, do some yoga and exercise some patience. I feel that the anger, on my part, was hearing from a bro that this team is one of the worst. Only based on a year that was total garbage...and ignoring the playoff run the year before. This team gets no respect and that's nothing new. It's tiring. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 1 minute ago, thrago said: What is their market value? They both had down years last year. This on a contract year, sure EP got hurt last year (which in my opinion doesn't strengthen his value) but he wasn't lighting the world on fire before that. They both seem to want to blame the team around them, yet at the same time want to make huge money (which means the teams success or lack of it is largely on them). They are playing both sides of the coin and teaming up to form a mini Union to do so and quiet frankly it's starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. exactly right........both players get superstar hype, but it's only potential at this point. Both players are still at a point where they could go either way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: You do make a good point here. I guess the other way of looking at this is Toronto. They sign their stars and then guys like Thornton and Spezza come for chump change and in Spezza's case, outperforms the stars of the team. Thornton and Spezza only came because Marner, Matthews and Tavares gives the Leafs a chance to win. But then again, what if Spezza and Thornton weren't from Toronto and it wasn't their home town team the idolized growing up. Would they still have signed for chump change to come? I doubt it. If Van overpays on Hughes and Petterson, who comes to Van at the twighlight of their career lookign for a cup? Nugent Hopkins? Exactly yea I mean if you have $100M and no cup, whatever. But with Petey and Hughes if they get hurt tomorrow they really don't have that much money (I'm guessing) and they don't have a cup! It does create a problem when guys like Spezza are playing their hearts out for the love of the game and Matthews lays an egg for a pay cheque. Edited September 21, 2021 by Chris12345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 1 minute ago, -DLC- said: I'm going to really take this to heart. I love both players. And this team. I'm going to wash my mouth out with soap now, do some yoga and exercise some patience. I feel that the anger, on my part, was hearing from a bro that this team is one of the worst. Only based on a year that was total garbage...and ignoring the playoff run the year before. This team gets no respect and that's nothing new. It's tiring. The tinfoil hat part of me after watching Jack Hughes jump around like a golden retriever puppy when the Devils picked Luke says he may be trying to poison the well in Van in order to eventually play with his brother. I know I'm likely overthinking it but still. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 17 minutes ago, TFerguson said: The agents work for the players, not the other way around. Petey and Hughes are ultimately in control They have the ability to say yes or no to a proposed deal, but the agents are the ones actively negotiating. If you were in their position, you'd be asking for what you felt is reasonable as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, -DLC- said: I'm going to really take this to heart. I love both players. And this team. I'm going to wash my mouth out with soap now, do some yoga and exercise some patience. I feel that the anger, on my part, was hearing from a bro that this team is one of the worst. Only based on a year that was total garbage...and ignoring the playoff run the year before. This team gets no respect and that's nothing new. It's tiring. it is tiring. everyone just wants something to enjoy after a crappy year and we're talking about who's entitled, etc. Petey in particular seems like a pretty good egg. The way he's handled himself, who he calls a friend, etc. speaks volumes. So I don't think he's looking to hurt the team at his personal gain. The agent on the other hand... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Didn't JB have press conference scheduled for this morning? Haven't seen anything from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VC420 Posted September 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 21, 2021 Honestly, as much as I love Hughes and Pettersson, this is getting ridiculous. The comments by Jack are infuriating and Elias' comments about playing for a competitive team really p*** me off. Pettersson, you are supposed to be offensive leader on this team, if we struggle to score goals then its your fault. Scoring starts from the top down, therefore the best players should get the most flak from a lack of success. Lets be honest you cant blame Miller for a lack of scoring, the guy has provided more offensive than was expected after joining the team. Boeser was our leading scorer last season and looks like he has found his rookie season stride again. Pettersson has regressed since his rookie season lets be honest. He doesn't skate with the puck in the O-zone anymore, and he just stands there playing with the puck until someone else gets open. Hughes has hasn't taken a step forward since his rookie season, he hasn't taken a step back either though. Yet, he is still the same dman with the same flaws and virtues from his rookie season. Its about always getting better like Makar and Heiskenin who have looked better and better, Hughes still is just Hughes and that's not good enough. In a league where other players are always looking to get better, I haven't seen enough progression from either Hughes or Pettersson to warrant more than 7mill each. If I had to choose one or the other I would choose to keep Hughes and ship Petey's rights to another team, let him play for Arizona and see how competitive things are there. Hughes at least provides something that's hard to replace, there are always big, defensive dmen in the draft and in free agency but its rare to acquire someone like Hughes. The difference Hughes makes on the powerplay is very noticeable, When it comes to Petey, I really don't see a case that can be made calling him the best player on the team. Miller takes all his faceoffs and has outscored him since joining the team. Boeser led the team in scoring last season, he is a former All-Star game MVP and in my opinion Boeser mops the floor with Petey when it comes to shooting/goal scoring. I would rather keep Miller, Boeser, Horvat over Petey at this point. Too much of the fan base is still enamored by Petey;s flashiness that they turn a blind eye to his lack of progression and seemingly team second attitude. Winnipeg didn't let Laine walk all over them, they didn't want to pay big bucks for a guy who was stagnating, and it was the right move. We need to create a team first culture, and letting 22/23 yr old kids who really haven't done much dictate the future of the team is only going to alienate veteran players who have sacrificed more than Hughes or Petey to get where they are. The Canucks are not Pettersson or Hughes' team. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeBrew Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 GM JB's new trick to the Stanley Cup: sign hold out RFAs later in the season resulting in prorated deals for the season to circumvent the cap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, JM_ said: The agent on the other hand... If we're being charitable to all sides here, players and management, I think its only fair we give the agent the benefit of the doubt too. He's working for the players. Trying to secure the best possible contracts for them. Its not like he's going to sign the contracts himself or undercut his clients for the sake of the team. He's doing his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, -DLC- said: I'm going to really take this to heart. I love both players. And this team. I'm going to wash my mouth out with soap now, do some yoga and exercise some patience. I feel that the anger, on my part, was hearing from a bro that this team is one of the worst. Only based on a year that was total garbage...and ignoring the playoff run the year before. This team gets no respect and that's nothing new. It's tiring. Agree with ya there. I was fine with what Jack said but only because I thought he could relate to his minus on a team that struggled as well. However I too get excited when I see things like where the Canucks are predicted to finish this year. We have a flippin great team imo. Now probably a top offensive team in the league with the additions this off-season. Our defence will be better and we have one of the best goalie in the league imo. I do prefer this to the latter though. Proving people wrong will feel good, real good! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts