Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[Ghostsof1915]

2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Thank you Stawns.... Spot on...

 

Unless it comes out that Benning offered them £2.50 and a soda pop, I don't see any reason to blame this on Benning... 

 

Benning is running Notts Forest FC?

[-DLC-]

 

 

15 minutes ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

It's not coddling. Whether you like it or not, players have leverage, so the burden is also on the team to make their market look as attractive as possible. 

 

This is nothing compared to the true coddling NBA and NFL teams have to do to attract superstars in their respective leagues. 

Leverage can start to seep into being held hostage in this game of negotiating.  Proven superstars like the McDavids, sure.

 

When you're still in the proving yourself stage, it's a little different.   Baby steps. 

 

I'm not sure how Quinn's story of a d man will unfold yet.  It's a tough gig.  I love to watch his "dashes" and he's dazzling at times...but a good, solid d man isn't always flash and brilliance...it's hard work and reliability.  KB3 had to work on his "dashes"/jumping in to the play one summer because it can be damaging at times to be offensively minded if that compromises your defensive responsibility.  You lose that battle to the puck and they're gone the other way.  Your job, first and foremost, is to prevent being scored on...a scoring touch is the gravy, not the meat and potatoes that has to be in place.

I'm more convinced that Petey is/will be that superstar we think he is.  Mostly because the position he plays is one that he's ultra skilled at.  

I imagine these guys WILL develop into what we're expecting of them...but that's when they can cash in.  Once we "know for sure" what we have in them.  It's a little early for me yet to mortgage the farm because down the road that might come into play.

 

 

[spook007]

1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Benning is running Notts Forest FC?

Think its Derby County....

[spook007]

4 hours ago, ForzaTikare said:

Read some about EPs Contract negotiations in Swedish media, looks like Player Side is looking for 4-6 Years and the Canucks is looking for 3, not event remotely Close to an agreement according to Barry

Its a tough one to gauge, as one thing is 4-6 years, but what are the numbers and terms?

[McBackup]

11 minutes ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

Snide comments don't help. 

 

Happy to debate this further, if you'd like.

Your post doesn't help either.

 

This is not unique to Canucks fans. Its part and parcel of playing in a passionate market for whatever sport it is. You can play somewhere where nobody cares and you get no praise for winning and no criticism for losing, or you can play somewhere you get adulation for success and people say mean things on an online Canucks message board about you when you lose. Its your preference for where you want to play.

 

And once again, this is not unique to Canucks fans. "Canucks twitter" is a meme. 

 

All you do with posts like that is stand on some imagined high ground and act like you're somehow preaching some enlightened gospel to the unwashed masses who are oblivious to the fact that at the end of the day sports don't really matter. People are aware. They still want to talk about the team because its a passion of theirs and it matters to them. How dare they talk about the Canucks on the Canucks website. Congrats. You stepped into the pig pen and told everyone they're pigs. I'm sure after your post they'll understand the error of their ways and turn into lambs.

 

And like @-DLC- said, if the small fringe of lunatics commenting on a website that won't let you post with more than 280 characters are the reason thats deterring you from signing here, I don't think you have the mental fortitude for it in the first place. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by McBackup

[KoreanHockeyFan]

7 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

 

 

Leverage can start to seep into being held hostage in this game of negotiating.  Proven superstars like the McDavids, sure.

 

When you're still in the proving yourself stage, it's a little different.   Baby steps. 

 

 

You are completely correct. I'm pointing out how it's a reality for negotiation tactics. Unfortunate, but hey, when millions of dollars are at stake, you do what you can. 

 

My overarching argument is how we make assumptions of players' personal make-up based on these contract negotiations is ridiculous. 

 

This is how it basically goes:

 

1. Contract negotiations drag out

2. Media creates hysteria about how they're dragging out

3. Fans read the media reports and express distress about how they're dragging out

4. Negotiations drag out further. Media speculates at where the choke point in negotiations are.

5. Fans begin to make assumptions of who's at fault for dragging negotiations out

6. Toxic fans begin making personal attacks towards players or the GM because they're to blame for dragging negotiations out

Edited September 21, 2021 by KoreanHockeyFan

[knucklehead91]

32 minutes ago, Zhukini said:

You can defend the team, I just think it’s a little confusing because as Jack defends his brother saying that he was on a bad team last year and that he’s better than what he showed…

 

You mentioned the name himself, that’s been the story for everyone here about OEL since he was acquired. 
 

I don’t see where either party’s wrong there 

I was actually moreso going at another fan, i just threw in the Jack Hughes comment at the end. Also being his brother, you think he would be privy to what the Quinn Hughes and the team went through with COVID. Calling us one of the worst teams is incorrect, we were a better team than where we finished and we finished ahead of 7 teams while we battled COVID, no star player, the handsdown worst scheduling for an entire season (thanks to the timing of COVID hitting us) and we still only missed the playoffs by 9 points. Thats pretty impressive considering all that we went through.
 

[KoreanHockeyFan]

 

2 minutes ago, McBackup said:

Your post doesn't help either.

 

This is not unique to Canucks fans. Its part and parcel of playing in a passionate market for whatever sport it is. You can play somewhere where nobody cares and you get no praise for winning and no criticism for losing, or you can play somewhere you get adulation for success and people say mean things on an online Canucks message board about you when you lose. Its your preference for where you want to play.

 

And once again, this is not unique to Canucks fans. "Canucks twitter" is a meme. 

 

All you do with posts like that is stand on some imagined high ground and act like you're somehow preaching some enlightened gospel to the unwashed masses who are oblivious to the fact that at the end of the day sports don't really matter. People are aware. They still want to talk about the team because its a passion of theirs and it matters to them. How dare they talk about the Canucks on the Canucks website. Congrats. You stepped into the pig pen and told everyone they're pigs. I'm sure after your post they'll understand the error of their ways and turn into lambs.

 

And like @-DLC- said, if the small fringe of lunatics on a website that won't let you post with more than 280 characters are the reason thats deterring you from signing here, I don't think you have the mental fortitude for it in the first place. 

Just because it's not unique to Canucks fans, doesn't make it OK. 

 

You've made quite the assumption of what the intentions are behind my original post. I'll disagree, but would rather not get into an argument about what my "intentions" are - quite off-topic for this thread.

 

You can talk about the team all you want. I can also talk about how a portion of CDC discussions get out of hand and get unnecessarily personal towards players. My comments about our toxic fanbase was used as evidence as to why I think this is a perpetual problem. 

 

I'm pointing out a problem that's up for discussion, I'm not trying to prevent people from discussing Canucks matters - that's insane. 

[Nucker 67]

So, let's get this straight - Pettersson and Hughes want big money because they have to play on a bad team?  lol  Maybe if they were better, the Canucks would be better.

 

The kids are sulking.  Even if the contracts get signed, my opinion of them has changed. Sure, they're both exceptional superstars, but it's the selfishness and greed that bothers me. Maybe the agent is steering the ship in a way, but everything is Pettersson and Hughes' call.

 

I don't blame Benning, I'm sure this is frustrating for him. In fact, maybe this is a ploy to get Benning out of there. The agent is turning the screws, Benning is under great pressure this year, and if he can't get these guys signed?  Goodbye Jim.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

Y'all need to chill.

[-DLC-]

12 minutes ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

 

Just because it's not unique to Canucks fans, doesn't make it OK. 

 

You've made quite the assumption of what the intentions are behind my original post. I'll disagree, but would rather not get into an argument about what my "intentions" are - quite off-topic for this thread.

 

You can talk about the team all you want. I can also talk about how a portion of CDC discussions get out of hand and get unnecessarily personal towards players. My comments about our toxic fanbase was used as evidence as to why I think this is a perpetual problem. 

 

I'm pointing out a problem that's up for discussion, I'm not trying to prevent people from discussing Canucks matters - that's insane. 

So we're toxic and you're pointing things out for us?

 

You're part of the problem, not the solution.

 

We're all invested in this team and it's sad that we even have to have a negative spin to start the year.  But "it is what it is" and Jack spouting off didn't sit well with some of us, that's all.  No right/wrong here...it's all just "opinions".

 

But pointing out the flaws of the rest of us never sits well.  We are all Canucks - toxic, but all in.

 

It got personal when someone outside the team called this team one of the worst.  Which was cute, considering, his team sits below us.  Yes, we react to that because that assessment of the team is unfair and taken out of context.  Look at why this team struggled, not just that they struggled.  Also, footnote:  his brother was part of that and he is not above the team or immune to the criticism.  That part didn't sit well with me.  

[wai_lai416]

39 minutes ago, JM_ said:

the agents will already have that sorted. 

sure but it won't be to a team that u can get the max or good asset/prospect/high 1st rounder. he ain't gonna be signing with a lottery team.

[-DLC-]

Just now, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

Y'all need to chill.

You know what happens when you tell a woman to chill out.....

 

(ok, I'll try)

[wai_lai416]

57 minutes ago, McBackup said:

Thats not at all whats being discussed. Nobody is saying if they aren't here at the start of the season move them for a 2069 7th rounder each. I'm saying if they aren't you have to start considering what you would get in a move for them.

ya you can consider.. so consider who's going to give you anything unless they have assurance the player will sign with them.. i mean realstically EP is prolly worth couple of 1st and a grade A/B prospect. problem is he ain't going to be signing with a lottery team. and if it's not a lottery team it's going to be low 1st and highly unlikely they have any grade A prospects

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

sure but it won't be to a team that u can get the max or good asset/prospect/high 1st rounder. he ain't gonna be signing with a lottery team.

well, if they want to get paid this year they do. 

 

Lets say for $&!#s and giggles Benning gets mean and moves one of them to Buffalo. Is a player not going to sign for 8-10 million for 3 years? of course they will, and talk about how exciting the future looks, yada yada.

 

I hope it doesn't come to that, but sometimes it does. Like I said, it can happen honestly and without someone being a jerk. Heck, look at Edmonton, if they have another bad year would you be surprised if McDavid asked to be traded?

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by JM_

[McBackup]

10 minutes ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

 

Just because it's not unique to Canucks fans, doesn't make it OK.  

Stop treating it like it is then. 

 

 

Quote

You've made quite the assumption of what the intentions are behind my original post. I'll disagree, but would rather not get into an argument about what my "intentions" are - quite off-topic for this thread.

What are they then?

 

Quote

 

You can talk about the team all you want. I can also talk about how a portion of CDC discussions get out of hand and get unnecessarily personal towards players. My comments about our toxic fanbase was used as evidence as to why I think this is a perpetual problem. 

 

I'm pointing out a problem that's up for discussion, I'm not trying to prevent people from discussing Canucks matters - that's insane. 

 

Oh so I'm correct, your intentions are to step into the pig pen and call everyone pigs. Nobody noticed until now, but you've cracked the case.

[KoreanHockeyFan]

3 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

So we're toxic and you're pointing things out for us?

 

You're part of the problem, not the solution.

 

We're all invested in this team and it's sad that we even have to have a negative spin to start the year.  But "it is what it is" and Jack spouting off didn't sit well with some of us, that's all.  No right/wrong here...it's all just "opinions".

 

But pointing out the flaws of the rest of us never sits well.  We are all Canucks - toxic, but all in.

 

It got personal when someone outside the team called this team one of the worst.  Which was cute, considering, his team sits below us.  Yes, we react to that because that assessment of the team is unfair and taken out of context.  Look at why this team struggled, not just that they struggled.  Also, footnote:  his brother was part of that and he is not above the team or immune to the criticism.  That part didn't sit well with me. 

Yes, I am criticizing some people's responses. Is criticism of the discussion itself now not allowed? I don't understand this double-standard.

 

At the end of the day, we're honestly all in the same boat, I want to see the team win just as much as you do.

 

My commentary is on how our discussions get out of hand, and players notice it. Trust me. 

 

You can make the argument of how "if they can't handle it then I don't want them here" all you want, I've seen it used quite frequently here on CDC actually. But that's the LAST thing you want to say when you're a GM trying to attract star players to Vancouver. NHL players are athletes first, not PR specialists. Should they develop some character and learn how to block out the white noise from lunatic fans? Absolutely. But if they have the option to avoid all of that in the first place and go to a more quiet market, what do you think the player is going to do? Not to mention Canadian markets are already at a disadvantage because of income taxes compared to the States.

 

It's just the reality of the modern NHL, it's a younger league and star young players are well aware of that, and they'll use it to their advantage. 

 

 

[McBackup]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

ya you can consider.. so consider who's going to give you anything unless they have assurance the player will sign with them.. i mean realstically EP is prolly worth couple of 1st and a grade A/B prospect. problem is he ain't going to be signing with a lottery team. and if it's not a lottery team it's going to be low 1st and highly unlikely they have any grade A prospects

Let me give you an analogy. Lets say you have a really, nice luxury car. Its been great for you in the past but recently its had some struggles and now you can't get it to start. You've tried multiple solutions and nothing seems to be working.

 

Now its starting to cause major issues.

 

You need a vehicle to get to work, the grocery store, etc. You can't keep missing out on all that stuff because your car is stuck in the garage. At this point you have to start entertaining offers from people who want to try to get it to work. They're not offering you sticker price but maybe they're offering you a comparable vehicle with more miles on it, but it actually runs. Maybe they're offering you a less high end model and some cash to make up the discrepancy. Maybe they're just straight up offering you a boatload of cash for it. 

 

Is the situation ideal? No. Of course in a perfect world you'd find whatever needs to be fixed, set it right again and go back to driving that car you like so much. But unfortunately all of these scenarios are better options than leaving that car sitting in the garage while you try to catch the bus to work.

[KoreanHockeyFan]

11 minutes ago, McBackup said:

Stop treating it like it is then. 

 

 

What are they then?

 

Oh so I'm correct, your intentions are to step into the pig pen and call everyone pigs. Nobody noticed until now, but you've cracked the case.

What in the hell...

 

My intention is to point out what I think is a problem with our fanbase. A little self-reflection doesn't hurt, y'know? Please debate the substance of my comments, not whatever assumptions you're making about my personal make-up. That's an incredible reach for a discussion board that's done all through text - you have no context for what the tone behind my comments could be - it's all text at the end of the day. 

 

Well, time to hop off back to the Federal Election Thread...discussions there are a lot less...emotionally charged lol

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by KoreanHockeyFan

[cuporbust]

Pettersson and Hughes are immature. This is what happens when egos are encouraged at a young age. If Pettersson wants to sign with a team that gives him a chance to win as he stated , maybe don't try and demand every last dollar if cap space. The 2011 canucks had it right. Most of the stars took allot less than they were worth to build a winner. 

 

Mature character players that want a cup sign team friendly deals. When u are likely going to retire either way with 70 or 80 million dollars in the bank, holding out like this is ridiculous and selfish. Let that sink in . These guys are holding out for what? U want to be obscenely rich instead of filthy rich? Get bent