What Would You Do? Pt. 4

[MrCanuck94]

Can't believe I'm already posting this topic again, but being over ten games in and the goal to reach playoffs, there isn't a lot of wiggle room to wait and see, especially in the Benning era.

 

Imo, it's time to clean house. Not a reactionary move. The organization has gotten stale and we need some new better voices in-charge. Benning had his best off-season in his tenure, but over his whole tenure, it's been pretty lacklustre and average. Green isn't cutting it and his assistants aren't either. The people I would retain most notably would be Shaw and Clarke.

 

What would you do?

[eeeeergh]

If you mean clean house as in - fire everyone and trade away our core for picks and start over, I'd say definitely not - our core is pretty great and a championship team could be built off them.

If its fire benning and coaches.. I'd also say meh. Benning actually put together a really good roster this year. 

I think its pretty telling that the new players are doing great, but our old players are struggling. They simply dont buy into Greens system anymore because they know it doesnt work. How deflating must it be to know that you could force turnovers by pressuring on the PK, but Green and Baumer force you to stand there and block shots with your gentlemans region. 

3 broken systems that all tie together - 
Horrendous PK system (just stand still)
Horrendous Powerplay (just stand still)
Outdated and ineffective overall system (dump and chase)

[MrCanuck94]

5 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

If you mean clean house as in - fire everyone and trade away our core for picks and start over, I'd say definitely not - our core is pretty great and a championship team could be built off them.

If its fire benning and coaches.. I'd also say meh. Benning actually put together a really good roster this year. 

I think its pretty telling that the new players are doing great, but our old players are struggling. They simply dont buy into Greens system anymore because they know it doesnt work. How deflating must it be to know that you could force turnovers by pressuring on the PK, but Green and Baumer force you to stand there and block shots with your gentlemans region. 

3 broken systems that all tie together - 
Horrendous PK system (just stand still)
Horrendous Powerplay (just stand still)
Outdated and ineffective overall system (dump and chase)

Clean house as in management and coaches. I agree it was Benning's best offseason but a leash can only stay on for so long. Just feels like the organization needs a breath of fresh air.

[GB5]

Status quo for now.

Usually the 20 game mark is the indicator for where a team is at.. as frustrating as things are I would give this team until then.

 

It is uncommon to remove a management group mid season. In part because the people you want t hire are tied up with other teams until the end of the season. It also adds an element of chaos that could make things get worse.

 

Firing coaches too soon may also be difficult if the management is on their last legs. We would either have an interim coach for the season or a lame duck coach who is removed if management gets canned at a later date. 

 

If things don't turn around quickly I would still like a new coaching team and if they can succeed they may be able to stick around.

[Crabcakes]

The Canucks are 27 goals for, 30 goals against.  6 PP goals, 11 goals scored against the PK.  So, 5 on 5 results are 21 goals for and 19 goals against. They need to score more but at least they're +2.

 

PP and PK are both not good enough and I think that coaching has something to do with that.  But is it the whole story?

 

Newell Brown was replaced by Jason King as the PP coach this season. King has worked his way up in the organization with 2 years in Utica and is in his 2nd year with Vancouver. It may be the system but a slumping Petterson doesn't help.

 

Brad Shaw has a long history as a penalty kill coach with St Louis and Columbus so is he the issue or are they missing Edler and injured stalwarts Sutter, Motte and Hamonic who has just played his 2nd game with the team?  PK requires more experience to read the various PP's around the league.

 

I think it's a combination of slumping players, injuries, and new special teams coaching.  Status quo

Edited November 7, 2021 by Crabcakes

[Dr. Crossbar]

Status quo.

 

There are a lot of dynamics at play beyond conventional expectations that - unfortunately - require a bit more patience. And understandably is a difficult ask with this fanbase. 

 

Petey obviously needs more time to get back to the player he was and we know he can be. I think we're all shocked by this but he's played approx 50 games in the past two seasons while trying to find his game again after an injury... with the additional pressure of signing a bigger contract. He needs more time. Sounds like an excuse but it's just fact. 

 

With the new faces, including the depth players, we're still trying to find the right chemistry.

 

Our special teams are at an all time low. We know it, they know it. But we're not being blown out ... we've been close despite our abysmal special teams. We can only go up from here.. When it begins to click, we will win more games. 

 

This team needs more time to find overall chemistry BUT ... they have been improving. You can see it.

 

After giving up the first goal in 9 out of 11 games, Green & Co. need to get the guys more game ready ... it's imperative. 

 

Our D is better than expected, but we need to score, produce, and get our special teams working. We do that, we'll win more games. 

 

The fact that we can identify the problems this early means we have 3/4 of the season to go. We all know this team is better than what we've seen. 

 

So much has gone on with this team in the past two years, we need to give them time to put it together ... because we all know they can.

 

And really, Benning made massive change in the offseason, Green has a better line up ... if we don't make the playoffs, it'll be painfully obvious change is needed but at least we gave them every opportunity to right the ship. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Dr. Crossbar
.

[ShawnAntoski]

Coaching change; while it is still early in the season to change the teams fortune.

[combover]

Get rid of the guy that resigned the coach 

Then get rid of the coaches. 

hire solid experienced people that know how to build and develop from within.
No more ahl plugs over prospects. 

 

times up for Jb and green both are stale 

[RU SERIOUS]

It's pretty obvious to the majority of "normal" people in the poll above and even the blind, that a coaching change is urgently required.   When my 10 y.o. nephew has the Canucks PP figured out before they even step on the ice and can point out glaring holes in the PK (like our opponents can) - you know we've got serious issues!  Besides, we've turned over pretty well the entire roster (almost twice over) since Green arrived here (including 11 new players this year alone - thats half the team) except for a couple of players, so what else could it possibly be?   

 

As a result, we've seen the exact same issues and start to the season as we've seen over the last several years with no end in sight. I want this team to win as much as anyone else - if not more and am certain the solution at this point (for starters) - is purge Green, King & BumGardener.  They have FAILED and we all know it. So the sooner mgmt gets their head out of the sand and does what is necessary - the better - before this season is lost like all the other ones over the last several years.  This is NOT about hating green - it's about facing reality and taking this talented group of players to the next level rather than watch them regress and wither under the current structure!

 

I still can't understand for the life of god, why green was re-signed, as it was obvious from the day he was hired that he was just an interim AHL calibre coach & would never take this team anywhere and last year would have been the perfect time to not resign him.   

 

Completely Mystifying move by uncle Jim!  What was he thinking??? OMG!

Edited November 7, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[-DLC-]

I voted status quo because it can become a matter of a dog chasing its tail.  We changed some personnel so giving a bit more time for adjustments may be required.  I don't know.  I feel hope we could be at a turning point (soon) and I feel it's just a little premature to do anything that completely rocks an unsteady boat...give a bit more time to settle things.  A big change means the guys would have to "start over" again to some degree and that's likely not in their favour for this year because we're already behind in terms of a team that's practiced together, etc.

 

See how another couple of weeks goes.  If it's a bust, then it wasn't likely going to be an "add water new coaches and stir" deal that would have an immediate impact anyhow.  

 

I'm not opposed to some changes being made either.  But I feel that if we're on the cusp of turning this around, pulling the rug out now wouldn't put us any further ahead.  The team is playing better and if they get over this hump and Petey/Brock start scoring, it could be ok.  

 

 

[Alflives]

We are winning tonight and after game 20 our record will be 12-7-1.  After game 40 we will be 24-14-2.  After game 82 we will be 45-34-3.  And after a playoffs, where we go 16-7-0, we will have a parade!  

 

[Chris12345]

11 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Can't believe I'm already posting this topic again, but being over ten games in and the goal to reach playoffs, there isn't a lot of wiggle room to wait and see, especially in the Benning era.

 

Imo, it's time to clean house. Not a reactionary move. The organization has gotten stale and we need some new better voices in-charge. Benning had his best off-season in his tenure, but over his whole tenure, it's been pretty lacklustre and average. Green isn't cutting it and his assistants aren't either. The people I would retain most notably would be Shaw and Clarke.

 

What would you do?

I am always interested in knowing why people think Benning had his best off season ever.

 

Factually he did not.

 

I don't care if he traded a 7th for Connor McDavid. If you lose you lose. End of story.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Chris12345

[Bure_of_94]

55 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I voted status quo because it can become a matter of a dog chasing its tail.  We changed some personnel so giving a bit more time for adjustments may be required.  I don't know.  I feel hope we could be at a turning point (soon) and I feel it's just a little premature to do anything that completely rocks an unsteady boat...give a bit more time to settle things.  A big change means the guys would have to "start over" again to some degree and that's likely not in their favour for this year because we're already behind in terms of a team that's practiced together, etc.

 

See how another couple of weeks goes.  If it's a bust, then it wasn't likely going to be an "add water new coaches and stir" deal that would have an immediate impact anyhow.  

 

I'm not opposed to some changes being made either.  But I feel that if we're on the cusp of turning this around, pulling the rug out now wouldn't put us any further ahead.  The team is playing better and if they get over this hump and Petey/Brock start scoring, it could be ok.  

 

 

I think it’s time for a change. There’s only 6 coaches in the league that have been with their teams longer in the nhl than Green. 2 have cups and 2 have played for cups in that time frame. 
 

The only coach in that group that has done worse arguably than Green is Blashill in Detroit. 
 

 I just wonder who’s out there that’s any good. To me, Quinville and Babcock are definite NOs

[Canuckfanforlife82]

10 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Status quo.

 

There are a lot of dynamics at play beyond conventional expectations that - unfortunately - require a bit more patience. And understandably is a difficult ask with this fanbase. 

 

Petey obviously needs more time to get back to the player he was and we know he can be. I think we're all shocked by this but he's played approx 50 games in the past two seasons while trying to find his game again after an injury... with the additional pressure of signing a bigger contract. He needs more time. Sounds like an excuse but it's just fact. 

 

With the new faces, including the depth players, we're still trying to find the right chemistry.

 

Our special teams are at an all time low. We know it, they know it. But we're not being blown out ... we've been close despite our abysmal special teams. We can only go up from here.. When it begins to click, we will win more games. 

 

This team needs more time to find overall chemistry BUT ... they have been improving. You can see it.

 

After giving up the first goal in 9 out of 11 games, Green & Co. need to get the guys more game ready ... it's imperative. 

 

Our D is better than expected, but we need to score, produce, and get our special teams working. We do that, we'll win more games. 

 

The fact that we can identify the problems this early means we have 3/4 of the season to go. We all know this team is better than what we've seen. 

 

So much has gone on with this team in the past two years, we need to give them time to put it together ... because we all know they can.

 

And really, Benning made massive change in the offseason, Green has a better line up ... if we don't make the playoffs, it'll be painfully obvious change is needed but at least we gave them every opportunity to right the ship. 

Benning also didnt get anyone to help the pk. That was an oversight. It was obvious it was going to struggle with the personnel he gave Green to work with. That and the fact Sutter and Motte are always injured. He should have had more reinforcements anyways but didn’t. Benning is always late to the party. The depth in this organization is still bad.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Canuckfanforlife82

[eeeeergh]

13 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Clean house as in management and coaches. I agree it was Benning's best offseason but a leash can only stay on for so long. Just feels like the organization needs a breath of fresh air.

Agreed he had a while and definitely made some mistakes, but there's definitely a price to pay when firing a GM. A new GM would have their own path which would need time to execute, and likely mean significant roster changes. 

On paper, the roster Benning has put together now is one of the best we've ever had. Sure it took him a long time and mistakes to get here, but we're here now, and might as well see what this team can do with good coaching and systems. 

If that doesn't help, then sure, scrap Benning but that also likely means a roster revamp and rebuilding.

[Warhawk]

2 hours ago, Bure_of_94 said:

I think it’s time for a change. There’s only 6 coaches in the league that have been with their teams longer in the nhl than Green. 2 have cups and 2 have played for cups in that time frame. 
 

The only coach in that group that has done worse arguably than Green is Blashill in Detroit. 
 

 I just wonder who’s out there that’s any good. To me, Quinville and Babcock are definite NOs

Same with our GM, isn't there only 1 or 2 GM's in the league with a longer tenure than Jim? 

 

Either way, how many more awful decisions do we need to watch our GM make before he gets the axe?  It's craziness.  His list of moves that have backfired is incredibly long and continues to get longer year after year.

 

Benning hired our last two coaches and they've both been absolutely horrible, now people want another coach fired so Jim can go hire another one lol

[Bure_of_94]

20 minutes ago, Warhawk said:

Same with our GM, isn't there only 1 or 2 GM's in the league with a longer tenure than Jim? 

 

Either way, how many more awful decisions do we need to watch our GM make before he gets the axe?  It's craziness.  His list of moves that have backfired is incredibly long and continues to get longer year after year.

 

Benning hired our last two coaches and they've both been absolutely horrible, now people want another coach fired so Jim can go hire another one lol

Benning is 9th longest tenured GM, it seems that the average GM lasts 8-10 years, so you’re probably right, his time is drawing near. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

Voted “status quo” and not just because we won tonight. I’d have voted the same yesterday, had I noticed this thread.

 

It’s still too early IMO. 
 

Not that I’d have been surprised, if Green got fired. It’s the quickest and easiest way to shake up a team. And often it has good results.

 

But I said going into this season that I’d wait for the 20 game mark before starting to pass judgment. And I’ll stick to that.

 

I think the team will still turn the season around. At least somewhat. I still see this roster as a bubble playoff team, and getting anything more than that would be a credit to the coaches. But getting significantly worse than that (like staying in the cellar in the standings) is an indictment of the coaching staff (unless there’s a reason, like injuries, which hasn’t been the case yet).

 

I think my preference remains that the fate of both the coaches and management rests on this season.
 

If the team significantly underperforms, I’d clear house in the off-season, and start next season with a new GM (and a President of Hockey Ops), and let them pick their staff, with complete autonomy (ie: no Torts style coaching hires pushed by ownership).

[IBatch]

Voted stay the status quo for now - although i'd trade a player for a third paring LHD (shouldn't require a core guy),  that can kill penalties well on the second unit.    Going to run OEL ragged.   Oh wait, what about Edler?  Lol.   Ugh.  Need someone.   If not then Rathbone or QHs or someone needs to start learning how to do it.   

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Voted “status quo” and not just because we won tonight. I’d have voted the same yesterday, had I noticed this thread.

 

It’s still too early IMO. 
 

Not that I’d have been surprised, if Green got fired. It’s the quickest and easiest way to shake up a team. And often it has good results.

 

But I said going into this season that I’d wait for the 20 game mark before starting to pass judgment. And I’ll stick to that.

 

I think the team will still turn the season around. At least somewhat. I still see this roster as a bubble playoff team, and getting anything more than that would be a credit to the coaches. But getting significantly worse than that (like staying in the cellar in the standings) is an indictment of the coaching staff (unless there’s a reason, like injuries, which hasn’t been the case yet).

 

I think my preference remains that the fate of both the coaches and management rests on this season.
 

If the team significantly underperforms, I’d clear house in the off-season, and start next season with a new GM (and a President of Hockey Ops), and let them pick their staff, with complete autonomy (ie: no Torts style coaching hires pushed by ownership).

All of this.   Yep me too.   Really hope that they outperform expectations.   Not the CDC's, seems like that's a cup parade every new year lol... that's making the playoffs as a top three team. I hope we do, and that we play EDM in the first round.   Nothing would make me happier then seeing the disappointment on McJesus's and Co's face, as they face elimination in game five with a few minutes left, down by 2-3.    Playoffs or bust this year.