[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[Dazzle]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

You are literally going against your own point.

Gillis got to live in his house.. by you know having a successful team and had plenty of assets.  Benning inherited most of them.

Benning is being evicted because he lost all the equity and has nothing to show for it. 

You keep pretending Benning didn't spend a ton of draft picks for win now help just like Gillis did.  Such transparent nonsense.  Go back to whining about how Green is the only problem with the team and that we will become contenders once he is gone.

Gillis was broke by the end of his reign.

 

Broke.

 

Nothing to his name.

 

Reverse mortgage is what happens when you sell off a portion of your property, in exchange for something liquid.

 

Please do not embarass yourself further

 

Seriously, the next person coming in has all the assets of drafted players. The person coming into Gillis' house has nothing.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Dazzle

[Dazzle]

Provost, if Gillis was so good at being a GM, why hasn't he been hired already?

 

It's been about just as long as Benning has been running.

 

I know you're a Gillis supporter, but he sucks as a manager. Selling off your only asset for an unknown lottery ticket is really bad.

 

And the funny thing was that it was self inflicted. The Luongo situation was just a disaster.

 

I'm amused that you're still defending Gillis when Benning/Gillis have both outlived their shelf lives.

[stawns]

9 minutes ago, Provost said:

You are literally going against your own point.

Gillis got to live in his house.. by you know having a successful team and had plenty of assets.  Benning inherited most of them.

Benning is being evicted because he lost all the equity and has nothing to show for it. 

You keep pretending Benning didn't spend a ton of draft picks for win now help just like Gillis did.  Such transparent nonsense.  Go back to whining about how Green is the only problem with the team and that we will become contenders once he is gone.

Gillis' success was based, primarily, on the adept rebuild by Nonis.  MG made some good trades to get them to the next level, but his propensity for ntc's is a direct cause of the length and complications of JB's work.  

 

Anyone who.thought it was going to.take less than a decade to recover from MG was fooling themselves

[mll]

45 minutes ago, ZH96 said:

They will have a lot more cap space after this season and they can trade Fiala right now to make some. Guerin has..

 

Signed Alex Goligoski

(born in Grand Rapids, Minnesota)

 

Traded for Nick Bjugstad

(born in Minneapolis, Minnesota)

 

Claimed Rem Pitlick 

(born in Plymouth, Minnesota)

 

Signed Jon Lizotte

(born in Grand Forks, North Dakota which is 3 hours outside the state of Minnesota)

 

Drafted Jack Peart in Round 2 in 2021

(born in Grand Rapids, Minnesota)

 

 

 

Their buyouts for Parise/Suter increase by 8M next season to reach 12.75M.  They will have considerably less cap space next season and the 2 after that where it goes up again by another 2 - ie 10M more than this season. 

 

That's why they are willing to move Fiala and/or Greenway in a hockey trade for a top-6 C.  It's not worth investing on wing when they have winger prospects that can replace them and their need is a top-6C.   The Wild are in a rebuild - that's in part why they believe they will be able to weather those ugly buyout cap hits for the 3 coming seasons.  They expect to be injecting prospects into their lineup.

 

Minnesota is the state that has the most NHLers - they are bound to have a few on the team.   Doesn't mean they are specifically targeting local players.  He couldn't care less where guys are from.  Fans favourites have been from all over the world. 

 

Guerin had a previous relationship with Goligoski from Pittsburgh.  The expectation is that they will be able to get him on a more favourable deal next season when they will be in a significant cap crunch.

 

Taking Bjugstad was doing a favour to Rutherford - they got him for a conditional 7th which they didn't have to give up because the conditions weren't met. His agent had to lobby Guerin to agree to the trade.  He's back because he's cheap and their cap space is very limited.

 

Boeser has little chance to succeed in Minnesota.  They don't have any playmaking C to set him up and it's not like he creates his own chances consistently.  Fiala at least can drive his own line.  He creates a lot of chances but is just completely snake bitten right now. 

 

Friedman on his 32 Thoughts podcast assured that Guerin is vey patient and that he's not moving Fiala unless it makes his hockey team better.  Dumba was on the trade block for ages with Guerin even confirming it.  They never got what they wanted (a top-6 C) so he never traded him and even gave him the "A". 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by mll

[Dazzle]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

Gillis' success was based, primarily, on the adept rebuild by Nonis.  MG made some good trades to get them to the next level, but his propensity for ntc's is a direct cause of the length and complications of JB's work.  

 

Anyone who.thought it was going to.take less than a decade to recover from MG was fooling themselves

That and MG never accumulated any wealth. Imagine spending your parents money, but not having a salary to recoup it.

 

Then having to negotiate with your only asset to stay afloat. Lmfao. Gillis is horrible. It's scary that people want to go back to that guy. People have short memories, or they just want to remember what they want to remember.

[Provost]

Just now, Dazzle said:

Gillis was broke by the end of his reign.

 

Broke.

 

Nothing to his name.

 

Reverse mortgage is what happens when you sell off a portion of your property, in exchange for liquid assets.

 

Please do not embarass yourself further.

Such a silly little whiner trying to hold onto something as your entire history of posts has shown you to be empirically wrong on pretty much every count.  Stamping your feet and holding your breath because you can't admit you are wrong yet again.

If you don't think a bunch of high picks and futures were a portion of of Benning's property... but insist they were a portion of Gillis' then you are just ludicrously out of your head with bias.

A reverse mortgage isn't actually selling off a portion of your property anyways, so that is nonsense.  It is selling off future value (equity) for cash in hand.

Vey, Dorsett, Baertschi, Etem, Larsen, Gudbranson, Pouliot, Mazanec, Miller, Toffoli, Bowey, and Dickenson are just a bunch of "cash in hand" players that Benning traded picks (equity) for.  Add in where he traded younger prospects for older players as well.

In return he has managed to have one of the worst team in the league and the VERY worst wins per dollar spent over his tenure as the teams that are worse spend tens of millions less than the Canucks do.

The times he did actually trade current assets for future value were when he traded away the assets he inherited from (bankrupt) Gillis.. like Garrison, Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, and Hansen.

The prospect pipeline now is no better, and possibly worse than when Benning took over.  At least he had Horvat (another Gillis gift of an asset he might trade)... the next GM is going to have DiPietro, Rathbone, and Woo as his top prospects.  None of them are as certain of NHLers as Horvat was.

Talk about bankrupt... the team Benning inherited had a ton of players that other teams would covet.  If you waived half the Canucks roster tomorrow most of them don't even get picked up de to being terrible or having bad contracts.
 

[Dazzle]

Just now, Provost said:

Such a silly little whiner trying to hold onto something as your entire history of posts has shown you to be empirically wrong on pretty much every count.  Stamping your feet and holding your breath because you can't admit you are wrong yet again.

If you don't think a bunch of high picks and futures were a portion of of Benning's property... but insist they were a portion of Gillis' then you are just ludicrously out of your head with bias.

A reverse mortgage isn't actually selling off a portion of your property anyways, so that is nonsense.  It is selling off future value (equity) for cash in hand.

Vey, Dorsett, Baertschi, Etem, Larsen, Gudbranson, Pouliot, Mazanec, Miller, Toffoli, Bowey, and Dickenson are just a bunch of "cash in hand" players that Benning traded picks (equity) for.  Add in where he traded younger prospects for older players as well.

In return he has managed to have one of the worst team in the league and the VERY worst wins per dollar spent over his tenure as the teams that are worse spend tens of millions less than the Canucks do.

The times he did actually trade current assets for future value were when he traded away the assets he inherited from (bankrupt) Gillis.. like Garrison, Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, and Hansen.

The prospect pipeline now is no better, and possibly worse than when Benning took over.  At least he had Horvat (another Gillis gift of an asset he might trade)... the next GM is going to have DiPietro, Rathbone, and Woo as his top prospects.  None of them are as certain of NHLers as Horvat was.

Talk about bankrupt... the team Benning inherited had a ton of players that other teams would covet.  If you waived half the Canucks roster tomorrow most of them don't even get picked up de to being terrible or having bad contracts.
 

Gillis had one asset to his name that had value. One. I already named him. Tanev is another one actually, but we'd also have a huge hole on defense.

 

You can count, can't you?

 

If all of the above players could get so much value out of them, as you say, why couldn't it be done?

 

Lmfao, and please Horvat was not a blue chip prospect as you claim. Horvat had skating issues, though he was comparable to Ryan O'Reilly. Lots of players have comparables, and if Horvat turned out to be a Hodgson, we would not only have a hole in goaltending, we'd also have no one at center or defense.

 

And yeah, how many blueliners or goalies did Gillis develop? Oh yeah.

[shiznak]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

I don’t see Horvat leading this team next season.
Moving Miller will take the heart out of the Canucks play,  .  And players like OEL Myers Garland and more of the young players like Podz Hogz Burroughs Poolman identifying with the leadership play/ style of Miller over Horvat.

moving Miller will implode this Team without bringing those “better than Horvat” leadership qualities back into the Team.

Without the Leadership qualities of Miller, or better than that. .  we will stay stagnant as we are,  on the cusp of better , on the cusp of utter failure.

Moving Horvat might bring a player (power forward). . An Alex Tuch type player into our ranks.  It should.

Horvat is a great F/O specialist, that’s golden in playoffs.  I’m sure there is more interest in Horvat .

 

Based on your assumptions.

 

There’s no proof that Miller is the “heart” of this team than more than Horvat. Or that he’s a better leader. This is the same guy who reportedly rubbed his teammates the wrong way in New York.

 

Horvat is a homegrown talent, who before this season everyone loved. It’s amazing that just one incident where he didn’t stick up for Podkolzin, ruined his reputation as a leader.

Edited November 29, 2021 by shiznak

[5nothincanucksohno]

17 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Ideally I'd love for Bo to be part of the solution here but if the new management team wants to reset a bit and go with EP/Hughes/Demko as the core, I would pull the trigger given the right return.

 

Unfortunately that seems the be the only route in my view now, no? Trade the "older" players to shore up the future - need two top four D, a first/second line center, and players with speed/size that can play up and down the line up.

 

Wait until the trade deadline or the offseason when returns are better but look to move Bo, Miller, Boeser, Pearson, Myers, etc. Myers/Pearson aren't the most desirable pieces but I could some teams interested for the playoffs if salary is retained. 

 

I would be comfortable "rebuilding" with the following group (need some leaders and more gamers that don't accept losing): 

 

Garland EP Podz

xx xx Hogs

xx JD xx

Motte xx xx

 

QH Hammer

OEL xx

xx Poolman

 

Demko

 

 

 

[BPA]

  Is somebody buying a house???  I'm confused.

 

  

 

 

[kanucks25]

3 minutes ago, 5nothincanucksohno said:

 

Unfortunately that seems the be the only route in my view now, no? Trade the "older" players to shore up the future - need two top four D, a first/second line center, and players with speed/size that can play up and down the line up.

 

Wait until the trade deadline or the offseason when returns are better but look to move Bo, Miller, Boeser, Pearson, Myers, etc. Myers/Pearson aren't the most desirable pieces but I could some teams interested for the playoffs if salary is retained. 

 

I would be comfortable "rebuilding" with the following group (need some leaders and more gamers that don't accept losing): 

 

Garland EP Podz

xx xx Hogs

xx JD xx

Motte xx xx

 

QH Hammer

OEL xx

xx Poolman

 

Demko

I think you have the right idea but I would say there are some extra/unnecessary names in that lineup (core).

[Bure_of_94]

6 minutes ago, BPA said:

  Is somebody buying a house???  I'm confused.

 

  

 

 

If Horvat or Boeser are still here, will they be invited to team functions again? 

[rekker]

1 hour ago, shiznak said:

Based on your assumptions.

 

There’s no proof that Miller is the “heart” of this team than more than Horvat. Or that he’s a better leader. This is the same guy who reportedly rubbed his teammates the wrong way in New York.

 

Horvat is a homegrown talent, who before this season everyone loved. It’s amazing that just one incident where he didn’t stick up for Podkolzin, ruined his reputation as a leader.

Anyone crapping on Bo is out to lunch. The lack of physical pushback goes way beyond Bo. It's a rotten, weak culture that JB has done nothing to address. In fact, we are as week as ever. With Bo and JT its a conttact thing. It's doubtful these competitors want anything to do with extending with this team. Times to see what they can fetch. It doesn't mean that it happens this week. It's about building up the market for them. I love Bo, he's a true pro and wants to win. This owner and GM have completely failed on building a competitive team around him. 

[NMHockey]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Their buyouts for Parise/Suter increase by 8M next season to reach 12.75M.  They will have considerably less cap space next season and the 2 after that where it goes up again by another 2 - ie 10M more than this season. 

 

That's why they are willing to move Fiala and/or Greenway in a hockey trade for a top-6 C.  It's not worth investing on wing when they have winger prospects that can replace them and their need is a top-6C.   The Wild are in a rebuild - that's in part why they believe they will be able to weather those ugly buyout cap hits for the 3 coming seasons.  They expect to be injecting prospects into their lineup.

 

Minnesota is the state that has the most NHLers - they are bound to have a few on the team.   Doesn't mean they are specifically targeting local players.  He couldn't care less where guys are from.  Fans favourites have been from all over the world. 

 

Guerin had a previous relationship with Goligoski from Pittsburgh.  The expectation is that they will be able to get him on a more favourable deal next season when they will be in a significant cap crunch.

 

Taking Bjugstad was doing a favour to Rutherford - they got him for a conditional 7th which they didn't have to give up because the conditions weren't met. His agent had to lobby Guerin to agree to the trade.  He's back because he's cheap and their cap space is very limited.

 

Boeser has little chance to succeed in Minnesota.  They don't have any playmaking C to set him up and it's not like he creates his own chances consistently.  Fiala at least can drive his own line.  He creates a lot of chances but is just completely snake bitten right now. 

 

Friedman on his 32 Thoughts podcast assured that Guerin is vey patient and that he's not moving Fiala unless it makes his hockey team better.  Dumba was on the trade block for ages with Guerin even confirming it.  They never got what they wanted (a top-6 C) so he never traded him and even gave him the "A". 

 

Alex Goligoski and Victor Rask are UFAs after this season and won’t be kept. That’s another $9 Million in cap space right there. One of Nick Bjugstad or Nico Sturm will also walk as a UFA which creates another $750 to $900 K. As they need to make forwards spots for Rossi and Boldy; Greenway will probably have his RFA rights traded for a pick to help create room for them. That’s another $2.1 Million in space right there. One of Jordie Benn or

Jon Merrill will walk as a UFA and that’s another $850 to $900 K. So Minnesota will clear AT LEAST $12,700,000 to compensate for the Suter and Parise buyouts of $12,750,000. Add in that they already currently sit today with $2,251,914 in cap space and that leaves them with at least $2,000,000 to $2,401,914 in cap space. Then add on the $5.1 Million they’ll clear in involving Fiala in a trade for a high-end forward ie. Miller or Boeser. There’s at least $7,100,000 to $7,500,000 right there to take on Miller at $5,250,000 or take on Boeser and re-sign him long-term for the likely 8 years x $7.5 Million he wants. 
 

Sure most U.S. players are from the state of Minnesota but Guerin is still lying about liking having homeboy Minnesota players. GMs lie to media 24/7. As my list showed Guerin (who’s only been GM since August 2019) since has gone out and acquired a Minnesota native player in every way possible.
Draft, Free Agency, Trade, and Waivers.
And what do you mean Minnesota doesn’t have a playmaking center and Boeser needs one to succeed?
Joel Player Name Ek does a fine job of that as does Victor Rask who currently has 6 points in 11 games. Not to mention Rem Pitlick is a natural center who has 9 points in 12 games and Frederick Gaudreau is a center who can do everything out there with his energetic all-around play and has 10 points in 21 games. As for Boeser he can produce no matter who his center is and would not struggle in Minnesota. He is an underrated passer and playmaker due to his heady vision and hands in tight. His current struggles have to do with a mental struggle and Travis Green. As for Kevin Fiala he is on the block because they already have a plethora of small, shifty, skilled forwards on the roster and in the system; plus he’s struggling right now and they want an all-around impact top forward to push them over the edge for a playoff run. Rebuilding? Wouldn’t call it quite that. A team that’s rebuilding doesn’t go out and sign solid veteran D-men in Goligoski, Kulikov, Benn, and Merrill. And then trade for a solid veteran forward like Bjugstad while also signing F.Gaudreau and claiming Rem Pitlick. If they were truly rebuilding they also wouldn’t be looking at a 28 year old Miller who has 1.5 seasons left before being a UFA; and willing to move a 25 year old Fiala who’s got RFA status , in return. Fiala who also has more skill and upside than Miller and only one year ago was playing like a top ten player in the league. Minnesota is re-tooling on the fly and trying to get over the hump and win now while also bringing along the future core of..

 

Kaprizov -Rossi-

Boldy -Player Name Ek- Duhaime

Re.Pitlick -Hartman-

 

Brodin - Dumba

Lambos - Addison

O’Rourke/D.Hunt - Spurgeon

 

Kahkonen

Edited November 29, 2021 by ZH96

[rekker]

Like it or not this team is headed for a retool at the very least. I look around at other struggling teams, the age of our team, imparticular Hughes and EP. I see something around Bo for Barzal making sense. Cap works. Isles in win now mode. We are in two steps back to move forward mode. 

[singing chef]

2 hours ago, SilentSam said:

We have not had a true power forward since Bertuzzi ..  a game changing player.

That speaks volumes,.  If we look around at the teams that are succeeding, there is at least one of that type on every team.

We have the potential of one with Podkolzin..........

[nergish]

1 minute ago, rekker said:

Like it or not this team is headed for a retool at the very least. I look around at other struggling teams, the age of our team, imparticular Hughes and EP. I see something around Bo for Barzal making sense. Cap works. Isles in win now mode. We are in two steps back to move forward mode. 

Matt Barzal plays with so much speed, I would love to see some of that injected into our lineup. What a story that would be: local boy comes home!

 

 

But what on earth would we have to add to Bo Horvat to get Barzal? There's no way it would be a one-for-one.

Unless we can convince them Horvat is the missing piece come playoff time...

 

[SilentSam]

1 hour ago, shiznak said:

Based on your assumptions.

 

There’s no proof that Miller is the “heart” of this team than more than Horvat. Or that he’s a better leader. This is the same guy who reportedly rubbed his teammates the wrong way in New York.

 

Horvat is a homegrown talent, who before this season everyone loved. It’s amazing that just one incident where he didn’t stick up for Podkolzin, ruined his reputation as a leader.

He dosent,  if rarely,  sticks up for teammates,.   It’s starts to change at a slow pace ,  but I put that on bringing a tenacious Miller, Garland, and even OEL has that moxy.

 

if it’s not Horvat,.  It’s Boeser bringing us an Alex Tuch type power forward..

personally I love watching Trenin play on Nashville..  but this season he has embedded himself with Nashville..

becoming a Neely type forward.

[SilentSam]

5 minutes ago, singing chef said:

We have the potential of one with Podkolzin..........

But unfortunately, that’s time,  with the right teammates to show him.. 

love Podz.

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, SilentSam said:

But unfortunately, that’s time,  with the right teammates to show him.. 

love Podz.

Since we're paying Ferland anyway, maybe he can help out a bit there in an advisory role.