[Report] Canucks name Patrik Allvin as GM

[Canuckfanforlife82]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

Not many people appreciate good puns, and I'm sure there were at least a few who didn't like yours, but All-vindicate you by saying I thoroughly enjoyed it 

We All-vin in the end!

[Attila Umbrus]

24 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Nicely said Sid. Completely different situations and sometimes people don't realize how much of a crap shoot they are comparatively. One or two picks hit and your results are dramatically better. Most picks don't make it and a great percentage are top 50 or higher. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the scouts (as compared to Director) more heavily relied on later in the draft as well?

Completely agree, the draft has so many variables. Every single team in the league has their hits and misses…it’s easy to pick the draft apart ONCE its over and been a year or two and see who has made it or not…everyone acts like we let ones slip though our hands and how obvious it was to take player x over player y…it never ends, arm chair gms…ugh

 

Instead of captain obvious we need a captain hindsight icon we can apply to know it all posts lol

[Attila Umbrus]

13 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I did want to mention/remind people he's actually been hired as the GM, not the Director of Amateur Scouting. We don't know who that will be or how much of Vancouver's scouting staff will be retained. We also don't know how involved he'll be in actually selecting the players either. He'll be busy with a lot of other stuff too.

Maybe if our GM wasn’t busy always scouting he would have noticed ALL the other issues going on with the team…

[khay]

19 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Our cap is a big problem right now.

That's why we trade Miller and Boeser. They combine for 11 mil in cap.

 

Replace those two with younger players we get back on ELC/first contract after ELC. 

 

We can't trade OEL/Myers for the reason why you want to trade them. OEL is at least playing good defence and contributing to the team unlike Player Name who was complete waste of 6 mil cap space. Myers is contributing playing a lot of minutes as well. Yes, they are overpaid but not like Player Name who was overpaid by 6 million dollars.

 

Dickinson 2.65, Poolman 2.5 hardly matters.

 

I don't think there is all that much dead cap as you seem to think (other than Luongo cap-recapture, Holtby/Virtanen buyouts).

 

And also, we are not looking for a turnaround in a year. Retool will take about 2 years to draft players and for young players we get back in Boeser/Miller trade along with Hog and Podz to reach the next levels. Also, Myers salary will come off the book by then. 

 

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, Pears said:

Both would get us pretty good returns and I’d hate to see both go but if it looks like they won’t re-sign then it is best to get something for them. I’m just glad we have something that at least resembles a plan. 

 

Another point to consider: Imagine how enticing Miller would be if we retained 50%. A team would be getting a bonafide top six forward, who can play anywhere in the lineup, for $2.10M and they’d get two playoff runs out of him. To me that would be worth the price it would take to get him. 

If Miller is looking to test free agency I would explore every option in moving him, however if he wants to stay long term I would lock him up and move all of Boeser/Dickinson/Poolman and Halak if he is willing to waive. 

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said:

No thanks, Boeser is the way better player. 

 

                games   goals   assists   points 

 Boeser     289       108       121       229

 

Kapanen    283       61         83       144

 

Pitt would have to add to make me go for that deal. 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Either way you shake it, I believe Boeser to be the superior player. People like to kick a player when their down. He has been one of our best players for each of the past 5 years, 1 bad year and now he apparently sucks. Boeser is a top line player while Kapanen is more of a second line player in my eyes.

I don’t kick Boeser and I think he should stay as a piece of our young guns. 
But I don’t like comparisions that isn’t comparable. 

[combover]

3 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

It gets to a point where the difference between a retool and a rebuild can be seen as splitting hairs, and I think we're right on the cusp of that. Does a rebuild mean that every player on your team has to get moved? Does a retool mean that your entire core has to remain? 

 

At what point does it become an argument of semantics?

For me a

retool is when you have a younger core entering their prime and can have years of success with the right pieces being added while still drafting and developing to save cap. 

 

refool is when you have an old core past their prime and you think you know better than everyone else and try to milk out every last drop by trading picks and prospects and over paying ufas . This requires years of excuses. And ends is cap hell and good players old and young walking for free.also has no long term sustainability or cup contention. 

rebuild is when the team as a group has aged out the  stars that are falling into more of a support/ secondary roll and have no one to replace them .but they can still help good teams in the sort term 

so you sell of any asset that has value and build by drafting and developing . 
and using cap space to gain picks  and prospects.

 

this group needs a retool we have some fantastic pieces

demko hughes EP horvat boeser podz garland that’s a good young core to build with. 

but the dynamic or mix of players isn’t right and the cap is so screwed. So guys that aren’t regular nhlers are.
 

miller has good years left but his value is also really high. 
and he’s not really a rental since he has a year left so a team could recoup on him next year  if needed. 

Motte is another guy I’d love to see extended but if he won’t or is unreasonable then he should be moved to his value is at its peak. 
 

boeser id try to get a sense of what his contract demands are I know his qualifying is high but if he’s signed for 4 -6 years what’s that look like. He’s a good player that qualifying offer will hurt his value on the trade market. And if he goes that route he could end up a ufa 

So again extend or trade his rfa status only applies if he’s qualified I could be wrong on this I’m not down with all the rules rfa qualifying ect. 
 

I like the committee that JR has assembled to date and they said the entire scouting department would be audited to which to me is also great news. 

Smart innovating respected people with accountability and most importantly a CUP as the goal. 

 

That’s my nickel on it all. 
 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, 13231 said:

I don't understand your point. Boeser is not just gifted a spot on PP1, he's there because of his competence and the numbers prove it. And Miller has outscored the entirety of Lightning's top 6 in the regular season since the time he's been traded. Once again, your point is incoherent and poorly constructed. 

Well, with Malkin, Letang, Guentzal and Crosby, do you believe Boeser would take a place on PP1?

[Bure_Pavel]

5 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Well, with Malkin, Letang, Guentzal and Crosby, do you believe Boeser would take a place on PP1?

I would put him in the last PP1 spot currently occupied by Bryan Rust personally. Boeser would likely hit 40 goals with Crosby feeding him biscuits. 

 

Rust is having a hell of a year though

Edited January 26, 2022 by Bure_Pavel

[King Heffy]

13 minutes ago, khay said:

That's why we trade Miller and Boeser. They combine for 11 mil in cap.

 

Replace those two with younger players we get back on ELC/first contract after ELC. 

 

We can't trade OEL/Myers for the reason why you want to trade them. OEL is at least playing good defence and contributing to the team unlike Player Name who was complete waste of 6 mil cap space. Myers is contributing playing a lot of minutes as well. Yes, they are overpaid but not like Player Name who was overpaid by 6 million dollars.

 

Dickinson 2.65, Poolman 2.5 hardly matters.

 

I don't think there is all that much dead cap as you seem to think (other than Luongo cap-recapture, Holtby/Virtanen buyouts).

 

And also, we are not looking for a turnaround in a year. Retool will take about 2 years to draft players and for young players we get back in Boeser/Miller trade along with Hog and Podz to reach the next levels. Also, Myers salary will come off the book by then. 

 

The dead cap of the buyouts and recapture amounts to the difference between Dickinson and a legit top 6 forward or top 4 D.  The new management team needs to eliminate long term dead cap after the end of next season if we're to be competitive.

Edited January 26, 2022 by King Heffy

[khay]

26 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

It gets to a point where the difference between a retool and a rebuild can be seen as splitting hairs, and I think we're right on the cusp of that. Does a rebuild mean that every player on your team has to get moved? Does a retool mean that your entire core has to remain? 

 

At what point does it become an argument of semantics?

True. But I think it still makes sense to distinguish the two in terms of planning for the future.

 

Rebuild: You are a bottom 5 team in the league because you don't have young players that can help you win games consistently. Examples are Arizona, Toronto pre-2016, Canucks circa 2016-2018 (the last of the Sedin years), and the Oilers since 2006. 

 

Rebuilding teams go for top 5 picks and build that way.

 

If you have young players that can help you win games as we do in Demko, Hughes, Horvat, Pettersson, Miller, Boeser, then the team is good enough to contend for the playoffs depending on the supplementary pieces and depth. Then, the decision is whether to push for the playoffs by adding (older) pieces to help you now (i.e., OEL) or do a retool by stripping out to the bare core players (IMO, Demko, Hughes, Horvat, Pettersson) and chisel around the roster. 

 

If choosing to retool, then you get draft picks back along with your own draft picks. But because your core players are too good to put your team in the. bottom 5, your pick is likely in 10-15 range and the pick you get back in from the contender so it's in 20th or later. 

 

Under the old rules, you can get lucky and pick in the top 3 if somehow the team you traded with overestimated themselves (e.g., Ottawa-Colorado Duchene trade) or your own pick somehow wins the lottery (e.g., Jets in 2016, Flyers in 2017, Dallas in 2017, NYR in 2020). But not possible anymore.

 

I think we are firmly in the retool territory.

 

 

 

[Timråfan]

Just now, Bure_Pavel said:

I would put him in the last PP1 spot currently occupied by Bryan Rust personally. Boeser would likely hit 40 goals with Crosby feeding him biscuits. 

Ok

Does Kapanen play in PP1?

[Canucks Curse]

2 hours ago, Angry Goose said:

intriguing for VAN but what’s the upside for PIT (rather than keep Kap)?

Boeser > Kapanen,

 

I would prefer somehtinglike

 

Bpeser+ Poolman for Kapanen and Marino

[NewbieCanuckFan]

...

Edited January 26, 2022 by NewbieCanuckFan

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

52 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Nicely said Sid. Completely different situations and sometimes people don't realize how much of a crap shoot they are comparatively. One or two picks hit and your results are dramatically better. Most picks don't make it and a great percentage are top 50 or higher. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the scouts (as compared to Director) more heavily relied on later in the draft as well?

Yes and no. I’d hope that most directors of amateur scouting employed in the NHL will have a pretty good handle on every player on their list, and will have put in the time and work to be prepared enough to make informed picks at every round of the draft. Of course, it’s the work of the regional scouts that provides the raw information, in terms of the actual viewings and reports, and then everything is compiled and discussed, and the team’s lists are put together. 
 

There may be some late adjustments and final decisions made at the table, depending on how the draft is playing out. And scouting is a certainly a collaborative process, so there’s plenty of discussion. But I’d be pretty worried about any amateur scouting director wasn’t prepared enough by draft day to make all the team’s selections on his own, if needed.

 

It’s a different story with GMs. If you watch some of our draft videos, you can tell that “super scout” GM Benning barely has any idea about who the players are that he’s drafting toward the later rounds. That’s not meant as a criticism. It’s not really the GM’s job. But the scouting director (Judd Brackett in most of the Canucks vids) definitely knows who’s who, when it comes to making those picks. And the scouting director is usually ready to give interviews with detailed profiles on every single pick, immediately following the draft.

[Gawdzukes]

17 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

Maybe if our GM wasn’t busy always scouting he would have noticed ALL the other issues going on with the team…

How big is a scouting department 15-25 people? We're talking about 1 person going from one huge department to another overnight, and in another position yet. It's nearly impossible to tell without inside knowledge or waiting to see what that will mean going forward. It's not like you can just go shopping at the good-great Director of Scouting store and a get a guy that's going to single-handedly pick 26% better than the next guy. All people that work in hockey have been part of groups with unsuccessful parts to the organization. It's definitely not cut and dry.

[Coconuts]

4 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Juicy bits here. Commending the effort of the team, but saying we have to add. Gonna be interesting to see how we add, because if it's trades we're going to have to give up something good to get something good. Free agency? We're pretty capped out, that'd likely require moving cap out. The draft? Uni or Euro ranks? Looking forward to it. 

 

Bring on change. It's long past due.

 

4 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Yes, let's not be a capped out team desperately trying to just make it over the finish line. 

[Locke Lamora]

Lots of folks enthusiastic about this mostly the fact this it’s not-Benning. But apart from getting lucky with Sid and Malkin, I honestly don’t think there is anything remarkable about the “Penguin Way” that guarantees its going to do anything special here.

 

This all hinges on Rutherford, which makes me a bit nervous. Allvin is Rutherfords’ assistant make no mistake.

 

Wish the new team a lot of good luck though. This is my team, for better or worse.

[Angry Goose]

13 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

Boeser > Kapanen,

 

I would prefer somehtinglike

 

Bpeser+ Poolman for Kapanen and Marino

While Boeser is a better finisher, Kapanen is a much faster skater + skilled player and probably going to come at a lower cap hit.

 

It’s not necessarily a 1 for 1 but the main pieces of a deal.  PIT needs value as well.  
 

Marino is highly coveted.  I dont think PIT gets much value out of trading him and Kap for an inconsistent and expensive cal hit like Boeser.  

 

All this being said, if the Canucks could add more speed into their top 6/9 and can drive play, there’s still a spot fora finisher like Boeser in VAN