2022 James Norris Memorial Trophy finalists unveiled

[R3aL]

41 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Quinn Hughes received five votes:

 

I don’t understand that at all.

 

who’s voting josi 3rd and 4th there..

 

When does the voting take place? Cause I’m thinking voters have been seduced by makars playoff performances here.

 

his defensive numbers were the best and he out scored Forsberg and his entire team. He outscored nathan mackinnon lmao

 

Makar going to win a lot of hardware but this one I think was clearly josi’s

[R3aL]

41 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Makar is the best hockey player since Bobby Orr.  But Josi deserved the Norris this year.  Makar will win the next 8.  Votes should be made public and be forced to be supported with evidence.  Josi getting third place votes after 96 points on a crap team is crazy.  

 

Agree completely 

[HKSR]

Josi was robbed.

[Mustard Tiger]

12 minutes ago, R3aL said:

I don’t understand that at all.

 

who’s voting josi 3rd and 4th there..

 

When does the voting take place? Cause I’m thinking voters have been seduced by makars playoff performances here.

 

his defensive numbers were the best and he out scored Forsberg and his entire team. He outscored nathan mackinnon lmao

 

Makar going to win a lot of hardware but this one I think was clearly josi’s

Man I was just going to say. Must be the same hometown biased weasles who give McAvoy 1st and 2nd place votes 

[DeNiro]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Josi was robbed.

Reminds me of when Luongo lost the Vezina to Brodeur.

 

Like what more does Josi have to do to win it. He had one of the most dominant seasons by a defenseman in some time.

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

anyone find it a little odd that these awards weren't delayed until the finals were over? 

like you couldn't have waited a week or 2 until everything was finished to hand out these awards?

 

Especially for players in the finals right now who should be locked in 100%, this might be a distraction. 

 

Nothing big, just find the NHL's scheduling weird.

[Master Mind]

The 20 people that gave 3rd/4th place votes to Josi should have their voting privileges taken away going forward.

[R3aL]

10 minutes ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

anyone find it a little odd that these awards weren't delayed until the finals were over? 

like you couldn't have waited a week or 2 until everything was finished to hand out these awards?

 

Especially for players in the finals right now who should be locked in 100%, this might be a distraction. 

 

Nothing big, just find the NHL's scheduling weird.

Agree. Seems stupid

Edited June 22, 2022 by R3aL

[Coconuts]

Josi was robbed

[Elias Pettersson]

Chris Tanev got a vote?   

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Makar is the best hockey player since Bobby Orr.  But Josi deserved the Norris this year.  Makar will win the next 8.  Votes should be made public and be forced to be supported with evidence.  Josi getting third place votes after 96 points on a crap team is crazy.  

 

Makar is better than Gretzky?   

[shiznak]

1 hour ago, R3aL said:

I don’t understand that at all.

 

who’s voting josi 3rd and 4th there..

 

When does the voting take place? Cause I’m thinking voters have been seduced by makars playoff performances here.

 

his defensive numbers were the best and he out scored Forsberg and his entire team. He outscored nathan mackinnon lmao

 

Makar going to win a lot of hardware but this one I think was clearly josi’s

Voting starts at the end of the regular season, and the playoffs have no effect on voting.

 

I don’t see how Josi got “robbed”. He had more points than Makar, but if you dive in at some of the advance stats. Makar pretty much is the clear favourite to win.

 

Minutes against elite competition:

Makar - 510 mins (77 games played)

Josi - 480 mins (80 games played)

Off. zone start:

Makar - 58%

Josi - 61%

 

Corsi:

Makar - 56%

Josi - 51%

 

xGA/60

Makar - 2.6

Josi - 2.9

 

High-danger scoring chance against/60:

Makar - 11.2

Josi - 9.9

You can see Makar plays against tougher opponents, by a wide margin, despite playing 3 less games. While having a better expected goals against per 60. Josi also barely plays on the PK. While Makar has over 100+ minutes, short-handed.

Edited June 22, 2022 by shiznak

[Kevin Biestra]

2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Reminds me of when Luongo lost the Vezina to Brodeur.

 

Like what more does Josi have to do to win it. He had one of the most dominant seasons by a defenseman in some time.

 

Martin Brodeur's season that year was one of the most dominant seasons by a goalie in all of NHL history.

 

Luongo just picked the wrong year to have his own best season, which was 99.5% as good.  Lu would have won the Vezina almost any other year.

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Kevin Biestra

[R3aL]

25 minutes ago, shiznak said:

Voting starts at the end of the regular season, and the playoffs have no effect on voting.

 

I don’t see how Josi got “robbed”. He had more points than Makar, but if you dive in at some of the advance stats. Makar pretty much is the clear favourite to win.

 

Minutes against elite competition:

Makar - 510 mins (77 games played)

Josi - 480 mins (80 games played)

Off. zone start:

Makar - 58%

Josi - 61%

 

Corsi:

Makar - 56%

Josi - 51%

 

xGA/60

Makar - 2.6

Josi - 2.9

 

High-danger scoring chance against/60:

Makar - 11.2

Josi - 9.9

You can see Makar plays against tougher opponents, by a wide margin, despite playing 3 less games. While having a better expected goals against per 60. Josi also barely plays on the PK. While Makar has over 100+ minutes, short-handed.

Do you know when ballots are officially closed? 
 

The stats I saw in favour for josi were handpicked by Nashville media I guess. 

they both had crazy years.  josi season more of a clear cut hart candidate.

 

feel like the guy should win something was insane

 

[Crimson-JH]

3 hours ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

anyone find it a little odd that these awards weren't delayed until the finals were over? 

like you couldn't have waited a week or 2 until everything was finished to hand out these awards?

 

Especially for players in the finals right now who should be locked in 100%, this might be a distraction. 

 

Nothing big, just find the NHL's scheduling weird.

 Not only that, this year’s awards show is no longer take place on stage in Vegas, no red carpet events, no public tickets, no after-party, etc. It was just a low-key event only televised. 

[mll]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Chris Tanev got a vote?   

 

[Elias Pettersson]

30 minutes ago, mll said:

 

I thought it had to be someone local.  Of course it was Drance...

[King Heffy]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Makar is better than Gretzky?   

Alf also has posted that he thinks Hughes is better than Makar.  Pretty sure he's not being serious.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Josi robbed, yep. I understand the advanced stats but come on - look at the teams these players are on. Makar is on a world beater team with a PPG partner and simply a team who control the puck most of the time. Defensively he's alright but simply watching him play, he's not the strongest defensively in the world.

 

Josi on the other hand is the best player on his team by a long shot. He would have been my MVP vote as well. Look how average that Nashville team is if you take Josi out - they don't make the playoffs IMO. He out-scored Makar and is relied on to play better defence, and all the while with a crappy team.

 

This league just wanted to give the young flashy guys some hardware this season and they have, Makar and Matthews are their golden boys but Josi really deserved this much more than Makar (who may well deservedly still win playoff MVP).

[mll]

 

4 hours ago, shiznak said:

Voting starts at the end of the regular season, and the playoffs have no effect on voting.

 

I don’t see how Josi got “robbed”. He had more points than Makar, but if you dive in at some of the advance stats. Makar pretty much is the clear favourite to win.

 

Minutes against elite competition:

Makar - 510 mins (77 games played)

Josi - 480 mins (80 games played)

Off. zone start:

Makar - 58%

Josi - 61%

 

Corsi:

Makar - 56%

Josi - 51%

 

xGA/60

Makar - 2.6

Josi - 2.9

 

High-danger scoring chance against/60:

Makar - 11.2

Josi - 9.9

You can see Makar plays against tougher opponents, by a wide margin, despite playing 3 less games. While having a better expected goals against per 60. Josi also barely plays on the PK. While Makar has over 100+ minutes, short-handed.

Nashville doesn't want Josi to PK.  He used to PK but they specifically added 3rd pairing Ds for the PK, because they believe his energy is better used elsewhere.

Not convinced that public stats are all that reliable to draw meaningful conclusions.  Several teams have also confirmed that their expected goal numbers are widely different.  They can't capture pre-shot movements or screens as well as goalie positioning and can be widely out of range.  Who they play with also matters - a group of skilled players who can cycle the puck and maintain possession efficiently will probably allow less shots against than a group who is not as efficient at maintaining possession and is more chasing the play.  Toews is also a more reliable D-partner than Fabbro which probably also impacts how they are deployed.  

 

Corsi is too system dependent and doesn't capture shot quality.  Tracking technology shows that it often doesn't even reflect possession.  It's simply a balance of shots for and against regardless of shot quality.  Trotz says he prefers 1 shot at 40% vs 40 shots at 1%.  The latter will have the higher Corsi as there are more shots for.  Expected goals can be influenced by volume - 50 shots at 1% has a higher expected goal than 1 shot at 40%.  

  

This was their comparison back in March using tracking technology.