The Hypocrisy in the Media and the Fanbase about the New Regime

[Dazzle]

We have heard many arguments that Benning sucked as a GM. Many articles have fleshed this angle out, so we don't need to drill on this before.

 

The hypocrisy comes in when you have articles like this:

 

https://canucksarmy.com/2022/03/07/canucks-backing-themselves-corners-roster-movement-fixing-one-biggest-issues-benning-era/

The Canucks are no longer backing themselves into any corners on roster movement, fixing one of the biggest issues of the Benning Era

What? This article from Mar 2022 ended up being very wrong; we would be even more cornered than we were with cap space, given the latest free agent signings. The article was partially right though. No one would know what JR/Allvin would do. I don't know if anyone expected the Canucks to do nothing in the TDL.

 

Despite the long-winded criticisms about the roster being not good enough, JR has just recently said in his interview that the defense was good enough.

 

That makes perfect sense why he did nothing. I guess all along we have been sold a lie that Benning was this horribly incompetent managemenr. We are now in a much better state under JR/Allvin now, right? Much of this sentiment has been echoed or perpetuated by the media now.

 

The roster which was said to be poorly constructed is almost the exact same one as what JR/Allvin has now. Our team played so poorly last season under Green, but dramatically resurged under Boudreau. Is the name of the GM that much of an influence in our drastic shift of opinions? Maybe it was a coaching issue from the very beginning which Benning never considered.

 

People who say it's a night and day difference under JR are just lying to themselves. The roster has basically remained the same. We have not collected additional draft picks. AND we are potentially talking about tying ourselves up with a long term contract because we have always loved our players too much.

 

What will it take for people to realize that this is just a re-tooled version of Benning's team? How can we really say that JR 'put his stamp' on this team despite making no roster changes?

 

In order for us to make further changes, we'll have to sell low with our players from now on to free cap space. JR has essentially handcuffed himself by not unloading JT Miller and addressing the so-called holes of this roster. Maybe this is an ownership issue, NOT the personnel one. We are unfortunately backed into a corner, contrary to the overly optimistic article above.

 

Maybe the media has no freaking clue what they're talking about and are just pushing narratives.

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Dazzle

[bishopshodan]

I don't read Canucks media.

 

However. I disagree with a lot of what you have said here. I think the core is really good and is better than some think. We don't need massive changes. 

 

For example...I think JT is a guy you retain, speaking of Miller this is going to turn into another thread about him.

 

[JM_]

unrealistic fan expectations ≠ a management plan

 

do anything ≠ a management plan

 

We did improve our F group, and did it without giving up any assets. We didn't throw good money after bad by burning picks to clear bad salary. Yeah thats new and good. 

 

Looking at how cheap some players went for in trade, and also how much it costs to move cap right now are you really that surprised at a low number of moves so far? 

[flat land fish]

At this point the biggest change is the confidence in management.  OP isn’t wrong in that what we will see hit the ice in the fall is still largely Benning’s team.  Hope new management is successful in making the small adjustments needed for the team to reach its potential.

[Ghostsof1915]

The fact is it seems a lot of folks can't be bothered to have a look at CapFriendly. It's not even August yet and there's 10 teams already over the cap, and 11 teams with $5 million or less in cap space right now.  That's 2/3rds of the NHL that doesn't have cap space. And only two teams Arizona and Anaheim that are under the cap floor.

 

Doesn't leave a GM with a lot of options to move players. If a GM wanted to create cap space while mortally wounding the team, they could trade Petey or Hughes tomorrow.

Then the team would have lots of cap space and probably lots of draft picks. But the fans would go bananas.

 

The fact is fans on here have always over estimated our own players values worth. And under estimated what other teams would accept for their players. I said last year that even if we got rid of Benning. There was going to be no quick fix. Unless the GM just said the hell with it, and traded everybody. There also seems to be the same group of trolls that no matter what positive moves the team makes they will whine and complain, be it management or ownership.

 

Are the Aqua's "model owners"? No. But they are better than some owners in sports. I may not like their business practices outside of the Canucks. (That is only word of mouth from other developers. So grain of salt) But they have spent to the cap. I have never heard them threaten to move the team. Unlike Arizona they seem to pay everyone on time.

So we could have much worse owners. I get everyone has their own ideas how to run a team. And yes we are frustrated, anxious, and want a winner. But I'd rather have management do things the right way. And have a team that is built to constantly challenge for the cup. I'm seeing progress. And I'm ok with that.

 

Let's see what happens in training camp.

 

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

The fact is it seems a lot of folks can't be bothered to have a look at CapFriendly. It's not even August yet and there's 10 teams already over the cap, and 11 teams with $5 million or less in cap space right now.  That's 2/3rds of the NHL that doesn't have cap space. And only two teams Arizona and Anaheim that are under the cap floor.

 

Doesn't leave a GM with a lot of options to move players. If a GM wanted to create cap space while mortally wounding the team, they could trade Petey or Hughes tomorrow.

Then the team would have lots of cap space and probably lots of draft picks. But the fans would go bananas.

 

The fact is fans on here have always over estimated our own players values worth. And under estimated what other teams would accept for their players. I said last year that even if we got rid of Benning. There was going to be no quick fix. Unless the GM just said the hell with it, and traded everybody. There also seems to be the same group of trolls that no matter what positive moves the team makes they will whine and complain, be it management or ownership.

 

Are the Aqua's "model owners"? No. But they are better than some owners in sports. I may not like their business practices outside of the Canucks. (That is only word of mouth from other developers. So grain of salt) But they have spent to the cap. I have never heard them threaten to move the team. Unlike Arizona they seem to pay everyone on time.

So we could have much worse owners. I get everyone has their own ideas how to run a team. And yes we are frustrated, anxious, and want a winner. But I'd rather have management do things the right way. And have a team that is built to constantly challenge for the cup. I'm seeing progress. And I'm ok with that.

 

Let's see what happens in training camp.

 

I think a lot of fans really overestimate the value of draft picks. Yes extra ones are great. But outside of the top 1/2 of the 1st round, we're still talking long shots at best even to be good enough to fill holes as ELCs, let alone guys who matter above replacement level or are available every year as UFAs. 

 

Its why the whole 'step back to get better' thing that gets bandied around isn't a desirable option for this management group, its risky with no guarantees if its mostly picks back for established players. 

 

[Dekey Pete]

I'm pretty sure JR said the defense still needed work, but there wasn't anyone available that would fit what they were looking for.

 

Our fan base (and probably lots around the league for that matter) always get overly excited about the new shiny coach, player, GM, president, whatever.  It won't be long before those people turn on him.  If you recall, when Benning was first hired there were a lot of people doing the exact same thing, comparing to MG.

[Fred65]

Personally I believe it's almost impossible to be worse than Benning, here's a clue, no one has rushed to sign his expertise for their club, ditto Green who unfortunately has to contend with the fact that Bruce showed him up with the same roster. As to Aquaman he's just fortunate ( if thats the right term ) to have a ruthless father who put him in a position to enoy the good life.

[Ghostsof1915]

8 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Personally I believe it's almost impossible to be worse than Benning, here's a clue, no one has rushed to sign his expertise for their club, ditto Green who unfortunately has to contend with the fact that Bruce showed him up with the same roster. As to Aquaman he's just fortunate ( if thats the right term ) to have a ruthless father who put him in a position to enoy the good life.

Don't see team's rushing out to sign Gillis either. I guess on the plus side, he's been interviewed for GM jobs.

[Chris12345]

3 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Don't see team's rushing out to sign Gillis either. I guess on the plus side, he's been interviewed for GM jobs.

Interesting that Burkie continues to be employed....Huge fan.

[AV.]

I'm just dying at the time this thread was posted.  Boring graveyard shift or waking up from a nightmare?

 

[King Heffy]

Main difference is replacing Green and Baumgartner with actual coaches.  Benning absolutely needed to be fired for subjecting our players to that level of incompetence.

[Ghostsof1915]

4 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

Interesting that Burkie continues to be employed....Huge fan.

As President. Not as GM. He seems to fit that role better.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

9 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

Interesting that Burkie continues to be employed....Huge fan.

Still can't get a goalie to save his life.  One Cup ring on his GM resume, he inherited that goalie.

 

Even Nonis acquired a legit starting goalie by trade & also drafted one.

Edited July 29, 2022 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Chris12345]

6 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

As President. Not as GM. He seems to fit that role better.

Yea which I always thought was interesting as he chews and drinks like a fish....which is probably why I like him.

 

I also met him and he was really nice....until the Pauser started yelling at him and he ran away.

[Chris12345]

6 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Still can't get a goalie to save his life.  One Cup ring on his GM resume, he inherited that goalie.

 

Even Nonis acquired a legit starting goalie by trade & also drafted one.

Who did Nonis draft I can't remember? Sneids I think?

Edited July 29, 2022 by Chris12345

[Fred65]

18 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Don't see team's rushing out to sign Gillis either. I guess on the plus side, he's been interviewed for GM jobs.

No Gillis moved to academia to teach law. He is currently employed by the NHLPA. Even though most within the NHL old boys club I suspect disliked Gillis it makes the fact that they voted him to GM of the year award even more gratifying. Betteman absolutely hated Gillis because he kept showing him up

[MeanSeanBean]

Of course, this team will be the Benning team with tweaks, the problem is the Benning team was not good enough. Benning took his shot last summer, and last year was the result of that shot. He traded a top 10 draft pick and what could have been roughly 12 million in cap space for assets and the team still did not make the playoffs. Yes, OEL and Garland made the team better, but with the way cap space has been a premium over the last 6 months, I would be taking Dylan Guenther and all that space every time right now. That trade is what likely will be setting us up to have to trade Miller, or stalling us from rebuilding the backend.

 

I love this core and supported Benning through much of his time here. But when he went all in last summer, that was the final straw for me. This team now sits capped out with arguably a bottom 5 prospect pool in the league, and would still be fighting for a playoff spot. I was expecting JR and Alvin to come in and make splashes, but it doesn't surprise me at all they haven't yet. They don't have very much wiggle room to make moves, so the moves they make must be perfect if we want any chance of keeping this core on track to open their window in 2-3 years, which should have always been the plan.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

Who did Nonis draft I can't remember? Sneids I think?

Yes, Schneider.  Was putting up Vezina like performances until injuiries zapped his career.

[Fred65]

And lest we forget this beauty

 

 

Quote

 

“I like this team - I like the core players. This is a team we can turn around in a hurry.” - Benning

— Vancouver Canucks (@VanCanucks) May 23, 2014

 

This man showed his hockey in sight 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Fred65