[Trade] Red Wings trade Filip Hronek, 2023 4th-round pick to Canucks for conditional 2023 1st-round pick (NYI), 2023 2nd-round pick

[boziffous]

17 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Can Hronek kill penalties?

This season he was 4th among Detroit defenders in avg PK time per game at 1:36. He had the lowest Goals against average per 60 minutes of all Detroit pkers this season at 5.5 goals allowed per 60 minutes shorthanded.

[-DLC-]

6 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Are your palms sweaty? 

You bet-y

[RUPERTKBD]

Just now, AnthonyG said:

Stop pretending you wanted a rebuild when you cant even handle missing playoffs….

 

2019-20 playoffs

 

2020-21 COVID f***ing destroyed us and our insane scheduling was a huge factor in us missing playoffs, not to mention losing Pettersson for 60% of the season. Otherwise we would have been a playoff team

2021-22 Our star players failed to perform right out of the gates, PK was historically sh*t but we turned it around and were one of the best teams down the final FIFTY SEVEN GAME STRETCH… maybe if  Pettersson wasnt pointless in like 27 of the first 42 games of the season, we might have actually been a playoff team? Or if our goalies were dialed in from the getgo we would be a playoff team last year? 

 

This year: all 3 goalies were horrendous, PK rewriting history AGAIN…. We’ve blown countless games thanks to everyone involved in the dzone…. Yet a lot of teams ahead of us and solidly in playoff positions have less than 10 more wins than us. Our problem can be fixed if players pull their weight and systems are executed.

 

We are closer to competing for playoffs than we are needing to rebuild and thats a fact. We barely missed in 2 of the last 3 seasons. This year we were scoring plenty and when Demko went down our goaltending situation got 100x uglier. Im sure if he was healthy, we would have had 6-7 more wins and that would put us right in the conversation for playoffs

 

WTF are you talking about? I haven't said anything about missing the playoffs.

[Sophomore Jinx]

7 minutes ago, McBackup said:

I am upsetti-spaghetti.

 

7 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Are your palms sweaty? 

I'm willing to Betty...

[CanuckRookieFan]

3 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I just don't get how we keep throwing picks away with a system so bare. No sense at all. We just aren't going to have players in that system that are impact players?

The picks that Canucks are obtaining arent designed to be used as picks, they are designed to be flipped for mid-20s assets - this is the clear direction and prerogative of the management team. As a fan I am not okay to wait for another 3 or 4 years for picks to develop, I rather have a mid-league team that is entertaining and allows me to go to games and expect high scoring games even if they lose. As a casual fan what the management is going for works just fine by me. 

[J-23]

Need to see the bigger picture before I can make full judgement. Penguins can still trade for Brock? Pettersson or POJ coming back hopefully.

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, Oldmanpower said:

i thought we were trying to keep the biscuits out of our basket?

We’ll plug that hole too. 
 

 

[bad alice french]

6 minutes ago, J-23 said:

Pettersson or POJ and then it will be a very nice addition. f**k it we moved our 1st. Might as well go out and push for Garland for Carlo in the off-season.

 

Hughes - Carlo

POJ/Pettersson - Hronek

OEL - Livingstone

I’m now learning that seems to be his style. Very aggressive once he gets going. Sweet looking blue line btw (adding a Carlo type vet would be so sick).  People are so down on this team following such a shitty season but look at that blue line with a healthy borderline Vezina calibre Demko  in net and tell me we can’t compete with the offensive weapons we have. Btw these adds would go a long way to improving the PK. 

Edited March 2, 2023 by bad alice french

[McBackup]

7 minutes ago, BCNate said:

No angle,   I love this deal.

Yup. Great deal. We needed a top 4 defenseman, so this makes total sense for where the club is at, just like the stellar OEL deal.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

They did okay with the Lecavalier pick....

Huh?

 

Are you going to summon the ghost of Dave Andreychuk too?

[chon derry]

1 minute ago, AnthonyG said:

Stop pretending you wanted a rebuild when you cant even handle missing playoffs….

 

2019-20 playoffs

 

2020-21 COVID f***ing destroyed us and our insane scheduling was a huge factor in us missing playoffs, not to mention losing Pettersson for 60% of the season. Otherwise we would have been a playoff team

2021-22 Our star players failed to perform right out of the gates, PK was historically sh*t but we turned it around and were one of the best teams down the final FIFTY SEVEN GAME STRETCH… maybe if  Pettersson wasnt pointless in like 27 of the first 42 games of the season, we might have actually been a playoff team? Or if our goalies were dialed in from the getgo we would be a playoff team last year? 

 

This year: all 3 goalies were horrendous, PK rewriting history AGAIN…. We’ve blown countless games thanks to everyone involved in the dzone…. Yet a lot of teams ahead of us and solidly in playoff positions have less than 10 more wins than us. Our problem can be fixed if players pull their weight and systems are executed.

 

We are closer to competing for playoffs than we are needing to rebuild and thats a fact. We barely missed in 2 of the last 3 seasons. This year we were scoring plenty and when Demko went down our goaltending situation got 100x uglier. Im sure if he was healthy, we would have had 6-7 more wins and that would put us right in the conversation for playoffs

 

Agreed. And that 1 round and out brings invaluable playoff experience and one step closer. Or I should say many steps closer to getting back there again. Of course that’s not going to fly with the tank movement. But at some point the team has to initiate some forward momentum rather than waiting for draft picks to get out of puberty. 

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, J-23 said:

Need to see the bigger picture before I can make full judgement. Penguins can still trade for Brock? Pettersson or POJ coming back hopefully.

What this team needs are some defensive defensemen and less puck movers. A defense that won’t get thumped in the playoffs. 

[BCNate]

2 minutes ago, McBackup said:

Yup. Great deal. We needed a top 4 defenseman, so this makes total sense for where the club is at, just like the stellar OEL deal.

Ok never mind,  you are one of those guys.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

Lol.

 

Ekblad and Carlsson signed those deals 5 years ago. 

Do you understand contract values go up with the cap? 
 

Hughes signed his deal after his ELC and only one season under his belt. He had very little leverage.

 

Maybe sit out talking about player contracts. 

Hronek will get minimum 6.5x8, similar to Faulk and Krug.  I think he could push to 7x8 for sure, especially if he waits until next summer 2024 and has an even better year next year...

[shiznak]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So, at 25 you don't think he can maintain this play?  Are you thinking he is going to regress at 26 years old?  Defencemen usually don't peak until 27-28, so he's not even peaked yet...

No, but a guy who never been great defensively doesn’t suddenly become good overnight. He’s a defensemen who needs the puck on his stick in order for him to control the play. Without it, he’s gets lost and is often gets caught out of position. 
 

There have been plenty of defensemen regress/shown sign of no improvement at the age of 26. Look at Sanhiem, Provorov, Dumba, etc around the league. 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Hronek will get minimum 6.5x8, similar to Faulk and Krug.  I think he could push to 7x8 for sure, especially if he waits until next summer 2024 and has an even better year next year...

The writer they had on from Detroit thinks he could get 8+ next summer.

 

If they believe in this guy I hope they sign him right away. Next summer he’s gonna cost alot more.

[J-23]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

What this team needs are some defensive defensemen and less puck movers. A defense that won’t get thumped in the playoffs. 

Yep but really not a whole lot of those guys out there anymore, big issue for most teams in the league these days feels like.

[McBackup]

2 minutes ago, BCNate said:

Ok never mind,  you are one of those guys.

 

One of those guys not huffing copium? Sure while we’re doing ad-hominem.

[TheQuietQuitter]

8 minutes ago, snolan said:

Hronek isn't just a bad +/- he is 2nd worse in the last 5 years, behind only Phil Kessel.  That is not just a "bad" plus minus, it makes Sheldon Souray look like a defensive god.

 

Why it constitutes value on a player is it is a healthy indicator of what type of player it is, or how they perform in certain situations. You could do some advanced analytics to figure things out too but it's the same sort of idea. Hronek gets a lot of points on the PP which don't net out but still... it's pretty indictive of situational value (ok now we can score on the PP, lets hope we get PPs, oh shit we're getting blown out 5 on 5 again!)

 

It's not 1 stat the derives value, Larkin also produces at nearly a PPG with 206 even strength points in 321 games. His defense is also a tire fire. He is also the captain of the team etc. so perhaps some intangibles here?

 

+/- is either the most valuable, or the most worthless stat. 

 

I'm in the camp of it's important because simply put - if your on a team that is winning and you get a huge plus (see: Patrice Bergeron) you are doing something right.

 

Yeah, you may be getting lucky but usually you are making the players around you better. Heavy minuses are usually doing something wrong but Detroit has been a huge tire fire so this gamble has a chance... but you'd think with the masses screaming "here is our RHD for Hughes!" there would be some more thought hey, maybe we should find someone we know can play a 2-way game. Hronek still has to prove it. Seems ultra risky and I don't quite understand the 'why now'

 

edit: like look we played this game with OEL and he had a lot of other intangbiles, way better points. Lot less at stake here but it's the exact same game.

 

 

I guess the point I was trying to make to the OP is that using a player's +/- rating, who has been on a bad team his entire career, isn't the best indicator in trying to assess a player or his value in a trade.

 

As for the bolded part, I believe this has everything to do with easing the offensive pressure off of Hughes.  

Hronek as a second pairing RHD, PP2 Quarterback, with the ability to play 20 mins and fill in for Hughes in case of injuries is a bigger deal than most are realizing.

 

As for OEL I think that trade had nothing to do with his intangibles and everything to do with trading bad away contracts.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, shiznak said:

No, but a guy who never been great defensively doesn’t suddenly become good overnight. He’s a defensemen who needs the puck on his stick in order for him to control the play. Without it, he’s gets lost and is often gets caught out of position. 
 

There have been plenty of defensemen regress/shown sign of no improvement at the age of 26. Look at Sanhiem, Provorov, Dumba, etc around the league. 

Defensive systems are far more important than the individual player within that system.  If this coaching group can get a whole team, defensive system buy in, they should be ok.

 

Demko is also the x factor in that scenario as well.