How long until we are competing with Vegas & Colorado?

[Timråfan]

On 6/9/2023 at 6:38 AM, Nucks89 said:

How long do you think it will take until we are competing with Colorado and Vegas for supremecy in the west?

 

We still have an elite goalie, Centre, and D. Depth isn't greatest. But it can be worked on. 

 

Vegas has decisions to make in net. Avs are in a cap crunch and injuries are taking a toll.

Not the the coming season but the next.

By then we have Silovs taking another step and Lekkerimäki and Petey the second joini g the team.

But we can be a upsetter the coming season if we don’t have any major injuries.

 

[The King of Kings]

On 6/9/2023 at 12:38 PM, Nucks89 said:

How long until we are competing with Vegas & Colorado?

When the Canucks keep being mediocre or below average(9th to 14th at the west), and when Vegas and COL both tank for rebuilding.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Watching these playoffs, we are so far off. The good teams of the playoffs have been Florida, Dallas surprisingly, Vegas obviously and maybe Carolina or Boston (although obviously they got bounced by a superior team). The thing they all have in common is that they play hard hitting hockey, especially defensively, and have clutch scorers up front and deep lines up front. Their top-4 defences are all monsters.

 

I don't see us even scoring in a 7 game series against any of these teams unless it's on the powerplay. Their big strong defencemen would just own Petey to be honest. Maybe Miller would crack through here or there, and we'd probably hurt them on the PP, and obviously Demko will stand on his head, but at the end of the day our defence won't be able to stop any of these guy's stars whereas their D will shut us down. We maybe win 1 game max against any of the final 4 teams in a 7 game series.

We are so far off. We've got a good top 2 centers, we have loads of small wingers who probably wouldn't do much in the playoffs, we have little to no size or grit in our forward unit and most importantly, we really only have 2 good defencemen in Hughes and Hronek, and no grit or toughness on the blueline, but we do have a star goalie.

 

If we magically could just acquire a solid 3C, swap our flimsy wingers for grittier guys, and get two bonified rugged top-4 defencemen we'd be a playoff team for sure and maybe a contender depending on how they all play together as a 5 man unit. For example, throw Ryan O'Reilly, Marchment, Gudas and Marcus Pettersson into this lineup and take Garland, Beauvillier and Myers out and you've got a playoff contender.

[EddieVedder]

20 hours ago, Alflives said:

You are wrong. Demko, Hughes, Petey, Hronek, and Miller are all elite. 

Sure captain koolaid.  Which is why we stink every yr. 

[EddieVedder]

12 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

Withe the right moves by management, better player development (which appears to be in place), I could see us becoming a contender in 3-4 years.  Petey and Quinn in their late 20’s with their man strength, 2-3 of our prospects reaching their potential, and Silovs challenging for starter.  

Uh, petey and hughes are in their 20s.  They should already have man strength.  

 

[chon derry]

38 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

Uh, petey and hughes are in their 20s.  They should already have man strength.  

 

So you finished filling out in your early 20s ? Your statement tells me you did. When I played which is quite a while ago. I can tell that my build at 19, 20. (6’3” 175 to 180 lbs) Was radically different.  By 25 I’d bumped up to 225.   Boeser started his career at 185ish ( 20 yrs old ) now at 26 he weighs in at 206. It’s not a stretch for both Hughes and petterson to bulk up. It certainly wouldn’t come as a surprise. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by chon derry

[Fred65]

4 hours ago, chon derry said:

So you finished filling out in your early 20s ? Your statement tells me you did. When I played which is quite a while ago. I can tell that my build at 19, 20. (6’3” 175 to 180 lbs) Was radically different.  By 25 I’d bumped up to 225.   Boeser started his career at 185ish ( 20 yrs old ) now at 26 he weighs in at 206. It’s not a stretch for both Hughes and petterson to bulk up. It certainly wouldn’t come as a surprise. 

There's good weight and then bad weight. the need to meausre body fat is important

[Gawdzukes]

4 maybe 5 decades.

[EP Phone Home]

[ronthecivil]

On 6/10/2023 at 1:37 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

Watching these playoffs, we are so far off. The good teams of the playoffs have been Florida, Dallas surprisingly, Vegas obviously and maybe Carolina or Boston (although obviously they got bounced by a superior team). The thing they all have in common is that they play hard hitting hockey, especially defensively, and have clutch scorers up front and deep lines up front. Their top-4 defences are all monsters.

 

I don't see us even scoring in a 7 game series against any of these teams unless it's on the powerplay. Their big strong defencemen would just own Petey to be honest. Maybe Miller would crack through here or there, and we'd probably hurt them on the PP, and obviously Demko will stand on his head, but at the end of the day our defence won't be able to stop any of these guy's stars whereas their D will shut us down. We maybe win 1 game max against any of the final 4 teams in a 7 game series.

We are so far off. We've got a good top 2 centers, we have loads of small wingers who probably wouldn't do much in the playoffs, we have little to no size or grit in our forward unit and most importantly, we really only have 2 good defencemen in Hughes and Hronek, and no grit or toughness on the blueline, but we do have a star goalie.

 

If we magically could just acquire a solid 3C, swap our flimsy wingers for grittier guys, and get two bonified rugged top-4 defencemen we'd be a playoff team for sure and maybe a contender depending on how they all play together as a 5 man unit. For example, throw Ryan O'Reilly, Marchment, Gudas and Marcus Pettersson into this lineup and take Garland, Beauvillier and Myers out and you've got a playoff contender.

Sounds about right. Of course, getting those kind of players isn't easy, nor is it going to happen. You need to have a lot of depth and development to get players like that, and since we are always in "win now" mode, then we will never actually get those kinds of players. 

 

So the short answer is NEVER, we will NEVER get significantly better, to a level that requires much more depth on the team, when the team keeps on sacrificing picks and prospects, and doesn't develop, because they believe in the kind of magic that will turn our team of no depth and grit into one like that, well, magic isn't real, so we will suck FOREVER until the game plan changes.

[combover]

I’d say in 2 years we will be competing against them for mushy middle 10-14thOA picks.

 

They’ll  be  declining and we’ll be the same as we are. 


 

[Provost]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:05 PM, DSVII said:

Going by JB's estimate. Two years ago

 

No... that was 4-5 years ago.  He said year 2 was in 2016, and by year 4 or 5 we would be elite.

All I can say is wish in one hand and poop in the other, see which one fills up first.....

[Gawdzukes]

38 minutes ago, Provost said:

No... that was 4-5 years ago.  He said year 2 was in 2016, and by year 4 or 5 we would be elite.

All I can say is wish in one hand and poop in the other, see which one fills up first.....

Okay I've got lots of wishes and poop. What next?

[Provost]

11 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Okay I've got lots of wishes and poop. What next?

… playoffs!

[Devron]

I’m guessing Vegas and Colorado won’t be very good when that time comes but who knows 

[iceman64]

On 6/9/2023 at 5:54 AM, Alflives said:

We will be better than all teams next season that don’t get to our 105 points. 
Demko, Hughes, Hronek, Petey, Miller. That’s an elite core. 

Add Mik and Kuz to that.. Kuz and Miller have helped us win shootouts we'd normally lose, reality wise we're probably 2 more seasons away but it will depend on our depth or lack thereof at the time, especially on D.

Edited June 13, 2023 by iceman64

[Sativika]

Seems to me every few years or decades, there's a Western Conference SC contending team that WC teams seem to want to model themselves after to be successful. Including our Canucks.

 

As great as the '82 and the '94 teams were in their respective playoffs, they we're pretty much one of those, "Get in the playoffs and anything can happen!" I missed the '82 run. That team had heart and that I believe what got 'em in. But they didn't have a hope in h#ll to beat the powerhouse Isles.

 

The '94 team was built around franchise player Trevor Linden. That team made some great drafts that ended up being cornerstones for that team. And the trades and acquisitions to supplement the team was the icing on the cake. That was purposely built to be a playoff team and once in, had the guavas to go all the way. Almost did!

 

The Westcoast Express teams had an expectation to contend, and as talented as they were, The Red wings were the team to beat. Unfortunately other WC teams had the same plan and competition was better than us back then. 

 

Hands down, the best team we fielded was the 2011 SC Team. The Mike Gillis built team was built to contend for the SC and win it. There was no doubt in my mind that, as cocky as this may sound, we had it in the bag in 2011. It's my thought that if Hammer didn't get injured, we definitely would've. C'est la vie.

 

And we come to the present! We can build a contending team, but there's always a team that you must get through. Obviously that's The Avs and now the Golden Knights. We can learn from the Avs success last season and the Golden Knights this season.

 

As much as I hate to say it, Vegas has turned into the dreaded rivalry, as was the 2011 team's rivalry was in the Black Hawks. However it's a 3 head dragon we must slay this time. Wowzers! Really went of topic, huh..........

 

I think we'll be in playoffs as early as this or next season. This coming season if we're lucky enough to hold a wildcard spot and squeak in with the possibility of help from other teams. Season '24/'25 we could be competitive enough to actually get in on our own. A SC contending team though, to me is a minimum half decade away. And it might not be the Avs or Golden Knight we gotta worry about!

[iinatcc]

On 6/9/2023 at 6:38 AM, Nucks89 said:

How long do you think it will take until we are competing with Colorado and Vegas for supremecy in the west?

 

[iinatcc]

On 6/10/2023 at 4:23 AM, Kenny Powers said:

With the the right moves by management, better player development (which appears to be in place), I could see us becoming a contender in 3-4 years.  Petey and Quinn in their late 20’s with their man strength, 2-3 of our prospects reaching their potential, and Silovs challenging for starter.  

B..b..b.b..but Benning said 2 years ago Canucks are ready to contend now 

[DownUndaCanuck]

8 hours ago, ronthecivil said:

Sounds about right. Of course, getting those kind of players isn't easy, nor is it going to happen. You need to have a lot of depth and development to get players like that, and since we are always in "win now" mode, then we will never actually get those kinds of players. 

 

So the short answer is NEVER, we will NEVER get significantly better, to a level that requires much more depth on the team, when the team keeps on sacrificing picks and prospects, and doesn't develop, because they believe in the kind of magic that will turn our team of no depth and grit into one like that, well, magic isn't real, so we will suck FOREVER until the game plan changes.

This is quite a sad way to look at it but I think it's true. The Hronek deal really seals it for us - I know why PA did it and it makes our team maybe better now, but getting rid of two very high picks (arguably a top-10 and late 1st in any other draft) is the reason we're in this mess - a quick-fire way to fix the team in the short-term but hurts us in the long-term.

 

The reason Yzerman did the trade is that it makes them better in the future and you can see that's what a clever savvy GM is building towards. He's looking at the slow-burner way to build a chronically successful team, we're trying to patch up our current core to go for it now but it's not a consistent way to build a winner.

 

Sometimes doing less is more and I wonder, if we'd never made the OEL or Hronek deal how this team would have looked, let alone the Dickinson swaps where we lost picks too. A lot less cap hits, a lot more draft picks. I know we had positional needs but most teams just sit on their team, maybe fill them with free agents here and there, and use those picks wisely to build a team from within with quality and quantity.