Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Odd.]

As a huge fan of Virtanen, his play hasn't been the greatest. In the first period yesterday, he recieved the puck and automatically just shot it right into middle where habs d picked off the turnover. When Virtanen has a man that's open, instead of giving a gentle pass, he passes the puck really hard as if it's hot potato and we lose possession at the offensive zone. He's shown that he can consistently hit, however, he needs significantly work on his off-puck movement and get into those scoring areas which I only sometimes see him do.

Our defense is pretty bad too though. Bartkowski, Hutton, and Tanev are the only d-man right now I actually like to watch calmly take the puck without any danger.

[Cowardrobertford]

At this point, I honestly believe McCann should have been drafted higher than Jake.

[Edlerberry]

jake needs to meditate and get his mind in control of those mitts, because an elite toolsy winger with no hands is what we call a 3rd liner. 

so far mccann and larkin look like they should have been top 10

[The Lock]

43 minutes ago, Edlerberry said:

jake needs to meditate and get his mind in control of those mitts, because an elite toolsy winger with no hands is what we call a 3rd liner. 

so far mccann and larkin look like they should have been top 10

He's learning. Give it time. :)

[nergish]

3 hours ago, Sandro17 said:

The stats don't indicate that he is NHL ready yet and I'm not sure if he'll really improve at the NHL level if this keeps up. 

Even if Virtanen is in my opinion expected to eventually be better than Horvat and Mccann in the long run, the problem is that his power forward style takes a while to properly develop to the point where it is NHL ready. Theres no point in rushing this kid, I say that he can stay at the Junior level for now to practice his skills. He's 19 he's got a lot of time to improve on what is expected of him. I think that in the long run, things would be better if he stayed at a lower league first. 
 

Having said that, I'm unsure if we're just keeping him up here so he can produce and get us into the play-offs. If that were the case, I'd be disappointed because this could just stunt his growth as a player. I'd rather miss a play-off year than stunt the growth of what could potentially be the future face of this franchise.

I don't really understand your line of reasoning.
Jake doesn't really make or break us in terms of the playoff hunt...
If he's playing like a serviceable 3rd liner (which he is) then how is that a detriment to the team? If he's playing in the best league in the world, how is that a detriment to his development? The only way playing in the NHL can "stunt" a player, is when they come in with lofty expectations or the team has no other options (the "Saviour" type, McJesus, etc.). We don't have those kind of expectations for Jake. We know he isn't there yet. But we know he looks good in a Nucks jersey, and teams are finding out how hard he hits every time he gets on the ice. That alone is enough to warrant him being here. The fine detailed skills you people seem to think he's lacking are not the kind of things you learn in the CHL in your +2 year. If EVER he were to unlock some hidden skillset, you would think playing with Hank and Dank in practice would be the place. You think these guys aren't trying to help him be the best player he can be?
Virtanen is simply a piece of our puzzle. I doubt he will ever really be an offensive dynamo. But he's big, he's mean, he's got character, and he can drive the net. I was hoping to see more out of him offensively, and frankly, he does look lost at times. But he's also the fastest player on our team, hits everything in sight, and the rest of the team feeds off his energy. That's what he will do for us for the REST of his career. So get used to it.

McCann is clearly the finesse guy, but he also can't do a lot of the little things Jake does (and vice versa). You need both types of players to have success and build a "team" in this league, and we're lucky to have both. Offense isn't everything (though we certainly could use more goals), and Jake is a welcome addition to our roster every single game.

[tyhee]

 

24 minutes ago, nergish said:

...If he's playing like a serviceable 3rd liner (which he is) then how is that a detriment to the team? If he's playing in the best league in the world, how is that a detriment to his development? The only way playing in the NHL can "stunt" a player, is when they come in with lofty expectations or the team has no other options (the "Saviour" type, McJesus, etc.). We don't have those kind of expectations for Jake. We know he isn't there yet. But we know he looks good in a Nucks jersey, and teams are finding out how hard he hits every time he gets on the ice. That alone is enough to warrant him being here. The fine detailed skills you people seem to think he's lacking are not the kind of things you learn in the CHL in your +2 year. If EVER he were to unlock some hidden skillset, you would think playing with Hank and Dank in practice would be the place. You think these guys aren't trying to help him be the best player he can be?

Virtanen is simply a piece of our puzzle. I doubt he will ever really be an offensive dynamo. But he's big, he's mean, he's got character, and he can drive the net. I was hoping to see more out of him offensively, and frankly, he does look lost at times. But he's also the fastest player on our team, hits everything in sight, and the rest of the team feeds off his energy. That's what he will do for us for the REST of his career. So get used to it.

McCann is clearly the finesse guy, but he also can't do a lot of the little things Jake does (and vice versa). You need both types of players to have success and build a "team" in this league, and we're lucky to have both. Offense isn't everything (though we certainly could use more goals), and Jake is a welcome addition to our roster every single game.

I disagree with much of this argument.  I'm not expressing an opinion on where Virtanen should be playing, but think that the arguments in the quoted post don't necessarily make sense.  To take them a bit at a time:

 

"...If he's playing like a serviceable 3rd liner (which he is) then how is that a detriment to the team?"

Sandro17 didn't say he was a detriment to the team, though perhaps you took that and saying he isn't NHL ready as the same thing.  (I don't think they are.)

"If he's playing in the best league in the world, how is that a detriment to his development? The only way playing in the NHL can "stunt" a player, is when they come in with lofty expectations or the team has no other options (the "Saviour" type, McJesus, etc.).

This doesn't seem to me to follow at all.  Again, I'm looking at the logic, not Virtanen individually.

If a player isn't good enough to do what he needs to do in games in the NHL, then playing at the highest level won't help him.  If the play is in some way beyond him, he needs to practice things at a level at which he won't constantly fail.  That's why it can be good for a player to star offensively in a lower league rather than be a plugger in a higher league.  A developing player may get more shots, more passes and be more involved in the offensive game at a lower level and thus improve faster than if he was plugging away at a higher level where he didn't get the puck as much.

"...The fine detailed skills you people seem to think he's lacking are not the kind of things you learn in the CHL in your +2 year."

Why not?  If he gets the puck more in Jr, shoots more in Jr, gets more chances to make passes in Jr, won't he get better ar it?

Imo it is a fallacy to think that every player will necessarily develop best playing at the highest level.  I don't pretend to know whether it will be best in the long run for Virtanen.

[guntrix]

5 hours ago, nergish said:

I don't really understand your line of reasoning.
Jake doesn't really make or break us in terms of the playoff hunt...
If he's playing like a serviceable 3rd liner (which he is) then how is that a detriment to the team? If he's playing in the best league in the world, how is that a detriment to his development? The only way playing in the NHL can "stunt" a player, is when they come in with lofty expectations or the team has no other options (the "Saviour" type, McJesus, etc.). We don't have those kind of expectations for Jake. We know he isn't there yet. But we know he looks good in a Nucks jersey, and teams are finding out how hard he hits every time he gets on the ice. That alone is enough to warrant him being here. The fine detailed skills you people seem to think he's lacking are not the kind of things you learn in the CHL in your +2 year. If EVER he were to unlock some hidden skillset, you would think playing with Hank and Dank in practice would be the place. You think these guys aren't trying to help him be the best player he can be?
Virtanen is simply a piece of our puzzle. I doubt he will ever really be an offensive dynamo. But he's big, he's mean, he's got character, and he can drive the net. I was hoping to see more out of him offensively, and frankly, he does look lost at times. But he's also the fastest player on our team, hits everything in sight, and the rest of the team feeds off his energy. That's what he will do for us for the REST of his career. So get used to it.

McCann is clearly the finesse guy, but he also can't do a lot of the little things Jake does (and vice versa). You need both types of players to have success and build a "team" in this league, and we're lucky to have both. Offense isn't everything (though we certainly could use more goals), and Jake is a welcome addition to our roster every single game.

I think you miss the whole point.

It DOES matter what JV amounts to. He's our highest pick in more than a decade. When JB picked no. 6, the onus was on him to pick a player that was gonna be a key piece of the puzzle in the team's future.

Picking 3rd liners at 6th overall will not make the Canucks successful. We absolutely need Virtanen to become a consistent top six forward. 

[guntrix]

On November 15, 2015 at 9:55:39 PM, Alflives said:

I have nothing against smaller players.  It's perimiter, soft on the puck and soft off the puck players, I have problems with: Vey and Baer, or Nylander and Ehlers.  The Twins led us to those successes you refer.  They are far from soft.  They are hard on and off the puck.  Yes we need young guys who play with the skill of the Twins to become Cup contenders again. IMO Vey and Baer are the same as Nylander and Ehlers.  These are not players who are key to Cup winning teams.  We still don't have those guys.  

 

Baer and Vey may not project to be longtime top six forwards but I'm scratching my head as to how you can compare them with the latter two.

We still don't know how Ehlers and Nylander will fare. For someone who tries to be as 'logical' as possible, this premise is impossible to conceive at this point. 

If Nylander and Ehlers become top six forwards, they will be key to whichever team they're on.

And while you're at it, the same standard should be applied to Virtanen. You may be a high-hitting, hard energy player but if you don't put up points, you're always gonna be a fourth liner. 

[Drakrami]

10 hours ago, Cowardrobertford said:

At this point, I honestly believe McCann should have been drafted higher than Jake.

Bennett/Nylander/Ehlers/Ritchie are all playing quite well. More like Virtanen shoulda drafted lower. I still like Virtanen nonetheless. 

[Alflives]

4 hours ago, guntrix said:

Baer and Vey may not project to be longtime top six forwards but I'm scratching my head as to how you can compare them with the latter two.

We still don't know how Ehlers and Nylander will fare. For someone who tries to be as 'logical' as possible, this premise is impossible to conceive at this point. 

If Nylander and Ehlers become top six forwards, they will be key to whichever team they're on.

And while you're at it, the same standard should be applied to Virtanen. You may be a high-hitting, hard energy player but if you don't put up points, you're always gonna be a fourth liner. 

I agree with you, except that Virtanen will always have the game (even if limited as you suggest - with which I disagree) to contribute to a Cup winning team.  Much like Bo Horvat.  His defensive abilities will always be needed on a Cup winning team.  Vey, Baer (Nylander, Ehlers) unless they produce points, they provide nothing to the team's success.  This, IMO, is very logical. 

[ice orca]

15 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I agree with you, except that Virtanen will always have the game (even if limited as you suggest - with which I disagree) to contribute to a Cup winning team.  Much like Bo Horvat.  His defensive abilities will always be needed on a Cup winning team.  Vey, Baer (Nylander, Ehlers) unless they produce points, they provide nothing to the team's success.  This, IMO, is very logical. 

Well you are going to see Ehlers and Virtanen on the ice tonight.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, ice orca said:

Well you are going to see Ehlers and Virtanen on the ice tonight.

That's great!  It's fun to watch the young players.  However, one game does not define a player.  We need to take into account a larger sample, of course.  That's why we know that Vey, Baer, Nylander, and Ehlers are who they are, and nothing more.  There is a history of their style of play.  Virtanen plays a very physical, and tough game - that's his history.  We know that translates to helping teams win Cups.  Top end skill is needed to win Cups too.  The previous four skill guys, are not top end. IMO

[aGENT]

10 hours ago, guntrix said:

Picking 3rd liners at 6th overall will not make the Canucks successful. We absolutely need Virtanen to become a consistent top six forward. 

A 3rd liner now at 19 years old and a whopping 15 games in to his NHL career does not equal a career third liner any more than Horvat being our 4C last year meant that was his ceiling either.

Despite all the hand wringing of exactly that last year.

Jebus you people are impatient.

Edited November 18, 2015 by J.R.

[Gaudette Celly]

15 hours ago, Cowardrobertford said:

At this point, I honestly believe McCann should have been drafted higher than Jake.

 

14 hours ago, Edlerberry said:

jake needs to meditate and get his mind in control of those mitts, because an elite toolsy winger with no hands is what we call a 3rd liner. 

so far mccann and larkin look like they should have been top 10

15 GAMES

[elvis15]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

A 3rd liner now at 19 years old and a whopping 15 games in to his NHL career does not equal a career third liner any more than Horvat being our 4C last year meant that was his ceiling either.

Despite all the hand wringing of exactly that last year.

Jebus you people are inpatient.

I know you meant impatient, but I think the typo better suits just how crazy it is to suggest this is as good as he'll even be.

[aGENT]

Yup, typo. Fixed

Edited November 18, 2015 by J.R.

[Gaudette Celly]

17 months of butthurt so far indicates that "inpatient" is probably accurate.  Getting them over it is going to take more time and therapy yet.

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

17 months of butthurt so far indicates that "inpatient" is probably accurate.  Getting them over it is going to take more time and therapy yet.

 

Edited November 18, 2015 by J.R.

[Cowardrobertford]

3 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

 

15 GAMES

What did you not understand about the first 3 words of my sentence? Plus, McCann showed more than Virt even playing with prust and dorsett, our 4rth liners.

[elvis15]

On 16/11/2015 23:13:33, Ihatetomatoes said:

Isn't that the exact role virtanen is in? Has he played in a scoring role at all yet? If there is no spot for gaunce then there sure iisn't a spot for virtanen, he isn't remotely close to being ready for a top 6 position.  

Considering Gaunce would likely be mainly bottom 6 and Virtanen has been more of a top 9 (yes, with 2nd line time with Horvat and Baertschi - whether you call them a 2b line or not). I'm not sure what you're comparing between them, but Virtanen has a far higher percentage of offensive zone starts and a lower quality of competition than Gaunce was in his short time up with the club. Virtanen has been used somewhat similarly to Baertschi in deployment even if both have been on the 4th line (or even the bench at times) while Gaunce was used primarily in a defensive role from the get go.