Discussion 2016 NHL Entry Draft [June 24-25th || Buffalo, New York]

[MoneypuckOverlord]

8 minutes ago, Bure fan said:

I'd say OHL is a more difficult league compared to the QMJHL. I'm hoping for Tkachuk over Dubois. So hopefully Edmonton keeps there pick or the team that traded up takes someone else. 

wouldn't say more difficult, it is considered Junior pro (the highest level of junior hockey in Canada), so it is the level of play, what sets them apart is that, the OHL this year and recently have generated more quality prospects, meanwhile the QMJHL have taken a huge hit, the pat few years, that said, guys like Huberdeau, Drouin, Ehlers, Nat Mackinnon, Meier (recent top 10's) But it's the same level of hockey.

[Bure fan]

2 minutes ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

wouldn't say more difficult, it is considered Junior pro (the highest level of junior hockey in Canada), so it is the level of play, what sets them apart is that, the OHL this year and recently have generated more quality prospects, meanwhile the QMJHL have taken a huge hit, the pat few years, that said, guys like Huberdeau, Drouin, Ehlers, Nat Mackinnon, Meier (recent top 10's) But it's the same level of hockey.

Yeah, I know it's the same level. I'm talking quality, and competition of play. In my opinion it is slightly more difficult of a league along with the WHL. This is seen by what you have just referred to as recently better prospects (7 out of the last 9 first overalls have come from OHL), and Memorial Cup results. (2015 winners OHL's Oshawa , and 2014 runners-up OHL's Guelph) 

 

So I'm just saying, I think Tkachuk's overall play in the OHL is more impressive (season + playoffs) then Dubois overall play in the QMJHL. 

 

 

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Bure fan said:

Yeah, I know it's the same level. I'm talking quality, and competition of play. In my opinion it is slightly more difficult of a league along with the WHL. This is seen by what you have just referred to as recently better prospects (7 out of the last 9 first overalls have come from OHL), and Memorial Cup results. (2015 winners OHL's Oshawa , and 2014 runners-up OHL's Guelph) 

 

So I'm just saying, I think Tkachuk's overall play in the OHL is more impressive (season + playoffs) then Dubois overall play in the QMJHL. 

 

 

Perhaps, but Tkachuk's quailty linemates are far superior to Dubois'.  I've also been hearing a lot of concerns about Tkachuk's skating being considerably slower than Dubois'.

 

I do like Tkachuk's work around the net though.  The Canucks always seem to fumble the puck when they're tight in, so a guy like Tkachuk would improve their play awesomely.

 

Either guy will end up being a prize for our team.

[Derp...]

Don't forget the age difference as well. It does make difference as Dubois is eligible for 2 more WJC where Tkachuk is only one. 

 

It will be hard for Dubois to put up 10 points in 7 games next year though like Tkachuk did this year. 

 

One advantage Tkachuk has is he's probably going to be in the top 12 forwards for the US for a large part of his career. Dubois may Crack Canada's international men's roster, but it's much more difficult for major tournaments

[MoneypuckOverlord]

1 hour ago, Derp... said:

Don't forget the age difference as well. It does make difference as Dubois is eligible for 2 more WJC where Tkachuk is only one. 

 

It will be hard for Dubois to put up 10 points in 7 games next year though like Tkachuk did this year. 

 

One advantage Tkachuk has is he's probably going to be in the top 12 forwards for the US for a large part of his career. Dubois may Crack Canada's international men's roster, but it's much more difficult for major tournaments

we don't care about international although it's always sweet to have a player representing team Canada at the olympics or the world cup, the main concern is helping the Vancouver Canucks . 

[guntrix]

10 hours ago, theminister said:

It actually really shouldn't matter when assessing the quality of Tkachuk as a prospect. 

 

Scouts don't focus on point totals as much as how the player plays and what their skill set and attributes are. 

 

If Tkachuk had 20 less points on a worse team with worse line mates I believe he's still be in and around the same spot because he'd still be the same prospect. 

If you want to use tools as a focal point for discussion, Dubois still wins.

 

He's bigger, faster, more versatile, and employs more skill in his play than Tkatchuk. 

 

I just don't understand why people insist on the scrappy player that plays with two extremely good linemates when our prospect cupboard is so bare of potential star players. 

[theminister]

Just now, guntrix said:

If you want to use tools as a focal point for discussion, Dubois still wins.

 

He's bigger, faster, more versatile, and employs more skill in his play than Tkatchuk. 

 

I just don't understand why people insist on the scrappy player that plays with two extremely good linemates when our prospect cupboard is so bare of star potential players. 

That wasn't my point. I wasn't comparing the two.

 

I was suggesting that his point bump from having good line mates doesn't make him less of a prospect, his play dictates that.

 

Tkachuk is a good scoring prospect even if you like Dubois more.

[guntrix]

8 minutes ago, theminister said:

That wasn't my point. I wasn't comparing the two.

 

I was suggesting that his point bump from having good line mates doesn't make him less of a prospect, his play dictates that.

 

Tkachuk is a good scoring prospect even if you like Dubois more.

I understand that, I should've clarified.

 

At our position, the players that we should consider are Dubois and the best of the Dmen. 

 

Tkatchuk screams underwhelming future once you statistically and contextually delve into his point totals. I feel like people are buying into the London hype train but hey, if scouts think that he's worthy of 4/5 OA then who am I to say otherwise. I just hope it's Edmonton that makes that mistake and not Vancouver. 

 

Edit. Forgot - his playing style I don't think is sufficient to warrant what he's projected at. If people think that Virtanen's skill set reeks of that of a third-line grinder, wait till you start watching this guy regularly. 

[Crabcakes]

I'm hearing that Tkachuk is a better fit in Edmonton because: 1. He is a different sort of player than they have been drafting.  and 2.  His tougher physical style appeals to Chirelli.

 

Let's hope this is true because Dubois is the better fit in Van.

 

Edmonton is still the most likely team to trade down imo.  

[‹(•¿•)›]

On 5/9/2016 at 10:22 PM, Blömqvist said:

 

 

 

Leafs - Laine

Jets - Puljujarvi

Blue Jackets (Finn GM picking a Finn) - Juolevi 

Oilers (need defense) - Chychrun

Canucks - MATTHEWS

lol

[thejazz97]

One thing people seem to forget around here is that Dubois put up the really good numbers on an alright team. Kinda Rick Nash-y.

[73 Percent]

16 minutes ago, thejazz97 said:

One thing people seem to forget around here is that Dubois put up the really good numbers on an alright team. Kinda Rick Nash-y.

I see alot of people taking sides (Dubois vs tkachuk. I feel that all the pressure is on 4th similar to the 1st overall pick. Ill be happy to take whoever the 4th doesnt. The the two players have a similar ceiling and both have pretty equal arguments supporting them and opposing them. 

[Hairy Kneel]

Personally I like the pedigree of Tkachuk as a factor, because his dad played a tough hard nosed brand of hockey.  But either way it's a win-win if we get PLD instead. The only other alternative is if we trade down a few spots and get an extra first round pick (which I also like). A good D and a good forward.

[Toews]

2 hours ago, Gooseberries said:

I see alot of people taking sides (Dubois vs tkachuk. I feel that all the pressure is on 4th similar to the 1st overall pick. Ill be happy to take whoever the 4th doesnt. The the two players have a similar ceiling and both have pretty equal arguments supporting them and opposing them. 

I agree with this. Also with the Oilers picking between the two I feel there is a good chance the Canucks end up with the better player.

[Derp...]

15 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

we don't care about international although it's always sweet to have a player representing team Canada at the olympics or the world cup, the main concern is helping the Vancouver Canucks . 

I think there is a key development aspect that comes from international play for a winning team. Learning to win on that stage has helped other great players end up where they are. In order for these guys to develop to their potential and be the best for the Canucks as possible they need to be put in situations that challenge them to raise their game when the time comes. 

 

I don't want them to just help the Canucks I want them to help win a cup in Vancouver. Perhaps you are meaning the same thing, but don't quite see the value there.

[cripplereh]

I will take any or best D but to me seems so far with signing already that benning is really starting to get young players that can play.I like what benning is doing and has done so either player for me would be a big bonus for this team!!In a year when Boeser comes watch out as this team will be a year older and will have many pieces in place for us to become a great team!

[Alflives]

Is all JB's pre-draft talk (now that we are fifth) smoke and mirrors?  I think he wants a particular D, and will take that guy at five, or even trade down - collecting assets - and pick the D he covets a bit later.

[CanuckMan10]

Probably not worth its own thread because theres a lot of if's involved, but say Edmonton drafts Tkachuk at 4 would you accept:

 

Van: 9th OA and Noah Juulsen

Mon: 5th OA

 

Juulsen's value is at a low right now as he regressed points wise, but there is a reasonable explanation outlined here basically saying that Everett had no players near PPG and play a very defensive system. The author believes he became a better player and his points don't do him justice.

 

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2016/4/4/11352394/noah-juulsen-is-better-than-the-stats-indicate-update-highlights-habs-prospect-report-canadiens

 

At 9 we'll still have our option of one of Juolevi, Chycrun, Sergachev, Bean to walk away from the draft with 2 top 4 defenseman. OR you could look at other options like Jost and pick up Johansen or Clague at 33.

 

I personally feel like if we add an offensive defenseman like Juolevi or Bean as well as a strong 2 way guy like Juulsen that our D pool looks solid enough to start looking for some skilled forwards in the later rounds and have a speedy rebuild.

[ice orca]

5 minutes ago, CanuckMan10 said:

Probably not worth its own thread because theres a lot of if's involved, but say Edmonton drafts Tkachuk at 4 would you accept:

 

Van: 9th OA and Noah Juulsen

Mon: 5th OA

 

Juulsen's value is at a low right now as he regressed points wise, but there is a reasonable explanation outlined here basically saying that Everett had no players near PPG and play a very defensive system. The author believes he became a better player and his points don't do him justice.

 

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2016/4/4/11352394/noah-juulsen-is-better-than-the-stats-indicate-update-highlights-habs-prospect-report-canadiens

 

At 9 we'll still have our option of one of Juolevi, Chycrun, Sergachev, Bean to walk away from the draft with 2 top 4 defenseman. OR you could look at other options like Jost and pick up Johansen or Clague at 33.

 

I personally feel like if we add an offensive defenseman like Juolevi or Bean as well as a strong 2 way guy like Juulsen that our D pool looks solid enough to start looking for some skilled forwards in the later rounds and have a speedy rebuild.

If Edmonton takes Tkachuk you take Dubois.

[FireGillis]

7 minutes ago, ice orca said:

If Edmonton takes Tkachuk you take Dubois.

Yup. No need to overthink this. You take whoever is left between dubois or tkachuk. No trading down for quantity over quality or taking a dman 5th.  Can take a dman in the 2nd round because none of the 1 round dmen are elite guys worth taking over dubois or tkachuk.