Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Devoted]

I get what DownUndaCanuck is trying to say.. He feels the Canucks' prospect pool needs/needed a #1 centre. I don't disagree. I also said the same things in the weeks and months leading up to the draft and was a pretty strong proponent of drafting Nylander.

HOWEVER, the draft has come and gone and the Canucks drafted Virtanen; a beastly winger with blazing speed, a pro shot, a nasty edge, and heck, he's even a local boy.

Can I get down with that? You bet.

What's done is done; Virtanen is our guy whether you, me or anyone else likes it or not. Get behind the player and hope he turns into the Corey Perry-type winger that he has the potential to become. Don't belittle his stats 8 games in and returning from major surgery, as well as squawk about the player we passed on.

Its detrimental to your mental health to constantly regret the past and wish for an outcome that is no longer possible.

[Rex425]

You're wasting your time with these guys. There's no point in talking sense to people who are hell bent on holding on to hope. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but neither will it make the situation any less pathetic.

We wasted the our highest draft pick since the Sedins, and understandably it's kind of hard to take that in.

So you want to take a one-trick pony?

Nylander may score 10 more points than Virtanen, but Virtanen could take Nylander out with a single clean hit. I'd rather be LA than San Jose.

[Rex425]

Did guy just say he's choose Filip Forsberg over Corey Perry every time? Lul.

What's funny is that He doesn't know that Perry out scored Backstrom last year.

So his opinion is invalid.

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

Centers - bo horvat, cole cassels, Mcann, brendan gaunce

wingers, hunter shinkurak, alex greiner, jensen,fox

now you see why benning drafted virtanen. We as a fan base have been begging for a pure sniper, a player who simply shoots the puck hard and fast. Nylanders going to be a top 6 for sure, but look at how many centers the canucks already have. Also, don't under-estimate guys like cole cassels or brendan gaunce they will be solid players. Canucks need wingers and we got one who is potentially ranked in the 10 of the draft. So do u believe nylander is going to be the next peter forsberg? Is this why some of u fans are so upset lol. Well I believe Virtanen if he lives up to his poteintal will be the next Jeff Carter. So relax let the kid play in the nhl, so what if he scores 50-60 poiints in the whl. He still has to develop in the farm, its a long process calling a prospect a bust already? LOL well done

Edited November 8, 2014 by desiboynux4lifee*******

[Mathew Barzal]

Just like the Sedins were sisters. Kesler had no hands and was a 3rd or 4th liner. Hodgson was an injured bust. Ect. Saying Virtanen is a bust at this point of time is so asinine that It comes across as trolling.

I'm not calling him a bust, I'm saying there were better players available. I'll save this thread and bump it five years down the road whether I'm right or wrong.

[BeefGormley]

We need a goal scorer. We got one.

Virtanen/McCann/Vey

Shinkaruk/Horvat/Jensen.

Still solid well rounded line-up. I still love this pick.

And Virtanen registered 2 points yesterday. Has 8 points in 8 games played. 2 goals, 6 assists. -2, and 8 pims.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=149178

Edited November 8, 2014 by BeefGormley

[JustABandwagoner]

We need a goal scorer. We got one.

Virtanen/McCann/Vey

Shinkaruk/Horvat/Jensen.

Still solid well rounded line-up. I still love this pick.

And Virtanen registered 2 points yesterday. Has 8 points in 8 games played. 2 goals, 6 assists. -2, and 8 pims.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=149178

I believe shink will be the 1st line winger lol.

[Gaudette Celly]

"We wasted the our highest draft pick since the Sedins"

I'll save this thread and bump it five years down the road whether I'm right or wrong.

No worries -- making statements like the above guarantee you'll be immortalized in somebody's sig.

[JiffyPB]

I'm not calling him a bust, I'm saying there were better players available. I'll save this thread and bump it five years down the road whether I'm right or wrong.

In 2004 the best player in the 1999 draft was considered to be Havlat. 5 years later it was Zetterberg. 5 years after that it was the Sedins. There are 204 players taken after Virtanen so there is ALWAYS a chance someone could be better. Would you have imagined that some random russian 6th round pick in 1998 would end up being a significantly better player than the 1st overall? No, but is Tampa really losing sleep over the fact they picked Lecavalier over the others? Other than 2 years, Datsyuk and Richards(3rd rounder) have been a better duo than the top 2 picks in that draft.

There was NO definitive pick at 6 like there was for Calgary (needed a 2C behind Monahan) and NY Islanders (winger). Dal Colle was the definitive pick at 5. There was no consensus best player behind him hence why there was a 4-way split on CDC between Ritchie, Virtanen, Nylander and Ehlers for the pick. The Canucks ALREADY had a player like Ehlers in Shinkaruk, who was far more accomplished and "proven" in the CHL than Ehlers was and they did not need another Shinky. The Canucks did not want Ritchie because looked like too much of a project and suffered with inconsistency. This left them with Nylander and Virtanen as the two choices. Although we go with "the best available player" mantra, that opinion is generally subjective and heavily influenced by your teams needs. Lets look at all the problems with the Canucks in 2013-2014:

• Can't score
• Slow
• Old
• Not physical/big enough
• Injuries
• Need more finish in top 6

Who addresses more of these problems? Virtanen. Even IF the canucks were interested in Nylander, let's remember WHY there WASN'T a top-6 but rather a consensus top-5. Here were issues reportedly surrounding Nylander:

• Small (5"11, 170lb)
• Hangs on puck too long
• Tries to be cute with the puck
• Attitude (referenced by bouncing around leagues and the number of teams he did)
• Not the greatest in his own zone
• Daddy involvement (Edmonton scout referenced this, it isn't some BS concocted by canucks fans)

Here were Virtanen's flaws:

• low IQ because he doesn't have enough assists
• his PPG was only 1.0, therefore he is Kyle Beach 2.0 (Canucks army 5 months later still asshurt Ehlers wasn't picked and still try to act as if they are smarter than someone like Benning)
• Craig Button thought he was only going to be Torres 2.0

Virtanen has already WORKED on those issues and has already demonstrated that he isn't as dumb as Nylander/Ehlers fans exaggerated and is willing to distribute the puck to his teammates.

TLDR: There was no obvious pick. It was always going to be tough for the canucks and there is ZERO indication at this point that any player they passed on is going to definitely be better than the one they picked.

Edited November 8, 2014 by ghjffbali

[WonderTwinPowers]

In 2004 the best player in the 1999 draft was considered to be Havlat. 5 years later it was Zetterberg. 5 years after that it was the Sedins. There are 204 players taken after Virtanen so there is ALWAYS a chance someone could be better. Would you have imagined that some random russian 6th round pick in 1998 would end up being a significantly better player than the 1st overall? No, but is Tampa really losing sleep over the fact they picked Lecavalier over the others? Other than 2 years, Datsyuk and Richards(3rd rounder) have been a better duo than the top 2 picks in that draft.

There was NO definitive pick at 6 like there was for Calgary (needed a 2C behind Monahan) and NY Islanders (winger). Dal Colle was the definitive pick at 5. There was no consensus best player behind him hence why there was a 4-way split on CDC between Ritchie, Virtanen, Nylander and Ehlers for the pick. The Canucks ALREADY had a player like Ehlers in Shinkaruk, who was far more accomplished and "proven" in the CHL than Ehlers was and they did not need another Shinky. The Canucks did not want Ritchie because looked like too much of a project and suffered with inconsistency. This left them with Nylander and Virtanen as the two choices. Although we go with "the best available player" mantra, that opinion is generally subjective and heavily influenced by your teams needs. Lets look at all the problems with the Canucks in 2013-2014:

• Can't score
• Slow
• Old
• Not physical/big enough
• Injuries
• Need more finish in top 6

Who addresses more of these problems? Virtanen. Even IF the canucks were interested in Nylander, let's remember WHY there WASN'T a top-6 but rather a consensus top-5. Here were issues reportedly surrounding Nylander:

• Small (5"11, 170lb)
• Hangs on puck too long
• Tries to be cute with the puck
• Attitude (referenced by bouncing around leagues and the number of teams he did)
• Not the greatest in his own zone
• Daddy involvement (Edmonton scout referenced this, it isn't some BS concocted by canucks fans)

Here were Virtanen's flaws:

• low IQ because he doesn't have enough assists
• his PPG was only 1.0, therefore he is Kyle Beach 2.0 (Canucks army 5 months later still asshurt Ehlers wasn't picked and still try to act as if they are smarter than someone like Benning)
• Craig Button thought he was only going to be Torres 2.0

Virtanen has already WORKED on those issues and has already demonstrated that he isn't as dumb as Nylander/Ehlers fans exaggerated and is willing to distribute the puck to his teammates.

TLDR: There was no obvious pick. It was always going to be tough for the canucks and there is ZERO indication at this point that any player they passed on is going to definitely be better than the one they picked.

+1 to you, excellent post!

[Mathew Barzal]

No worries -- making statements like the above guarantee you'll be immortalized in somebody's sig.

Well, that's fine with me. If I'm wrong all that means is the Canucks got the better end of things.

[boxiebrown]

In 2004 the best player in the 1999 draft was considered to be Havlat. 5 years later it was Zetterberg. 5 years after that it was the Sedins. There are 204 players taken after Virtanen so there is ALWAYS a chance someone could be better. Would you have imagined that some random russian 6th round pick in 1998 would end up being a significantly better player than the 1st overall? No, but is Tampa really losing sleep over the fact they picked Lecavalier over the others? Other than 2 years, Datsyuk and Richards(3rd rounder) have been a better duo than the top 2 picks in that draft.

There was NO definitive pick at 6 like there was for Calgary (needed a 2C behind Monahan) and NY Islanders (winger). Dal Colle was the definitive pick at 5. There was no consensus best player behind him hence why there was a 4-way split on CDC between Ritchie, Virtanen, Nylander and Ehlers for the pick. The Canucks ALREADY had a player like Ehlers in Shinkaruk, who was far more accomplished and "proven" in the CHL than Ehlers was and they did not need another Shinky. The Canucks did not want Ritchie because looked like too much of a project and suffered with inconsistency. This left them with Nylander and Virtanen as the two choices. Although we go with "the best available player" mantra, that opinion is generally subjective and heavily influenced by your teams needs. Lets look at all the problems with the Canucks in 2013-2014:

• Can't score
• Slow
• Old
• Not physical/big enough
• Injuries
• Need more finish in top 6

Who addresses more of these problems? Virtanen. Even IF the canucks were interested in Nylander, let's remember WHY there WASN'T a top-6 but rather a consensus top-5. Here were issues reportedly surrounding Nylander:

• Small (5"11, 170lb)
• Hangs on puck too long
• Tries to be cute with the puck
• Attitude (referenced by bouncing around leagues and the number of teams he did)
• Not the greatest in his own zone
• Daddy involvement (Edmonton scout referenced this, it isn't some BS concocted by canucks fans)

Here were Virtanen's flaws:

• low IQ because he doesn't have enough assists
• his PPG was only 1.0, therefore he is Kyle Beach 2.0 (Canucks army 5 months later still asshurt Ehlers wasn't picked and still try to act as if they are smarter than someone like Benning)
• Craig Button thought he was only going to be Torres 2.0

Virtanen has already WORKED on those issues and has already demonstrated that he isn't as dumb as Nylander/Ehlers fans exaggerated and is willing to distribute the puck to his teammates.

TLDR: There was no obvious pick. It was always going to be tough for the canucks and there is ZERO indication at this point that any player they passed on is going to definitely be better than the one they picked.

Listen, I wanted us to draft Nylander and I still think he will be the better player. Having said that, Virtanen is a perfectly fine prospect and I hope he turns out great for us.

But I really want to address the idea that Virtanen was a better pick because of our "needs." Drafting a player based on the deficiencies of your team in the previous season is straight up INSANE. A player's peak is between 25-28. That's 7-10 years from now for Virtanen. We have absolutely no idea what the Canucks will look like in 7 years, and no idea what that team will need. This is why drafting best player available is the right call 99% of the time.

The same goes for the argument that we needed to draft Virtanen because we need to get bigger to deal with the team's in our division. Again, who knows what the Sharks, Ducks and Kings will look like in a decade? Heck, there could easily be expansion and realignment in the next 5 years. And then of course there's the fact that there's no proof whatsoever that smaller, skill teams can't beat "big" teams.

Again, I hope Virtanen turns out great for us (I think his best case scenario is something like Evander Kane, which I would be ecstatic about). But I also really, really hope that Benning realizes how crazy it is to draft based on team need, and that drafting for skill over size is typically a much more successful strategy.

[BanTSN]

Not sure why everyone still has a Nylander boner when his camp was 'meh'. If Virtanen was healthy, he would've made the lineup easily. NHL-ready size and speed.

[Junkyard Dog]

Not sure why everyone still has a Nylander boner when his camp was 'meh'. If Virtanen was healthy, he would've made the lineup easily. NHL-ready size and speed.

I don't think we would of made the lineup over players like Horvat and Jensen.

Horvat had the size, defensive skill and ability to win draws. He was also considered one of the more NHL ready players in his draft and still waited a year and could possibly wait another.

Jensen is above him in the depth charts IMO.

I think being down in the CHL dominating kids while focusing on his overall game will be good for Virt. He definitely has the speed, size and physicality however but consistency has been an issue.

After coaching in the AHL and KHL, French feels for Virtanen to make it at the next level, consistency is what will be key for him.

“He’s got some real nice, God-given talent and it’s going to be finding out how his game fits into the team structure,” said the Hitmen’s head coach. “But with his willingness and with the type of person he is, I don’t think that will be a problem.”

[DownUndaCanuck]

Not sure why everyone still has a Nylander boner when his camp was 'meh'. If Virtanen was healthy, he would've made the lineup easily. NHL-ready size and speed.

Wow big assumption buddy. You thought an underager like Virtanen with one decent year in the WHL was going to outplay guys like Jensen, Shinkaruk and Horvat let alone NHL regulars and crack this roster?

Virtanen is a project, he's going to be very similar to Kassian but the Sabres ruined his development by rushing him into the NHL. Virtanen needs another year or two followed by at least a full season and maybe another in the AHL. I don't want to see him forced into our lineup until he's at least 20 or 21 and has proven he can score against backup calibre goalies in the AHL.

40 goals in the WHL is very different to the NHL kid, even the players who scored 100 points in 60 are struggling to produce in the big league right now.

[JamesB]

Not sure why everyone still has a Nylander boner when his camp was 'meh'. If Virtanen was healthy, he would've made the lineup easily. NHL-ready size and speed.

Hard to have much credibility with this kind of statement. It is extremely unlikely that Virtanen would have made the Canuck line-up at all, let alone "easily". In fact, that is generous. There is no chance he would have made the line-up.

As JB and WD have demonstrated, they put a lot of weight on previous track record for spots on the team. Vrbata was already the 1RW before camp ever started, and Vey was on the team for sure (being a point a game player on the AHL for the past two years and a former WHL scoring champion). Dorsett had a guaranteed spot, and of course they were going to go with the established veterans even after last year's disappointments.

Gaunce, Shinkaruk and Jensen were always going to start the season in Utica. The only young guy with a shot at making the team was Horvat, and he is likely to go back to Junior after his 9-game tryout.

Virtanen is a good prospect but he will need to significantly improve his point-a-game performance from last year if he wants to get a serious look next year to make the team out of camp. Making the comparison with Horvat, Horvat is a much better defensive player, is good in the face-off circle, is excellent on the PK, and still was comfortably over a point a game in the OHL last year.

Virtanen has good size and strength, but his strong suit is scoring and he will need to do more of that before he makes the Canucks.

[DeNiro]

Not sure why everyone still has a Nylander boner when his camp was 'meh'. If Virtanen was healthy, he would've made the lineup easily. NHL-ready size and speed.

He's putting up very solid numbers in the SHL.

The guy's gonna be a top 6 player in the NHL, there's no doubt. But it comes down to how Benning wants to build a team.

It's not always about who is going to put up the most points. If we only drafted the most skilled players, we'd have a team that could score goals, but it would be soft and weak defensively. Much like the Oilers.

Based on what they built in Boston, Benning values players who play hard, fast, and physical. That's the type of players we can expect him to draft.

[JiffyPB]

Listen, I wanted us to draft Nylander and I still think he will be the better player. Having said that, Virtanen is a perfectly fine prospect and I hope he turns out great for us.

But I really want to address the idea that Virtanen was a better pick because of our "needs." Drafting a player based on the deficiencies of your team in the previous season is straight up INSANE. A player's peak is between 25-28. That's 7-10 years from now for Virtanen. We have absolutely no idea what the Canucks will look like in 7 years, and no idea what that team will need. This is why drafting best player available is the right call 99% of the time.

The same goes for the argument that we needed to draft Virtanen because we need to get bigger to deal with the team's in our division. Again, who knows what the Sharks, Ducks and Kings will look like in a decade? Heck, there could easily be expansion and realignment in the next 5 years. And then of course there's the fact that there's no proof whatsoever that smaller, skill teams can't beat "big" teams.

Again, I hope Virtanen turns out great for us (I think his best case scenario is something like Evander Kane, which I would be ecstatic about). But I also really, really hope that Benning realizes how crazy it is to draft based on team need, and that drafting for skill over size is typically a much more successful strategy.

There is always a bias to draft what you need. Colorado needed a winger in 2011 so they drafted one, NJ needed help on D so they drafted Larsson, Josh Bailey looked like a bust so NYI drafted Strome. Edmonton fans WISH they drafted Murray over Yakupov. While you want to draft the best player possible for the reasons you stated, the "best" player is generally subjective and again, influenced by team needs.

Nylander isn't what this team needs now and wouldn't be able to help in a meaningful capacity now. Virtanen can help sooner as a winger with the skillset he possesses. I believe Nylander has all the tools to be a great player, but I don't believe he would have been great for us in this division. Look at how difficult was for the Sedins to adjust to the physicality of the NHL. They were widely considered busts until after the lockout when they broke out. Do you really think Nylander is going to be as tough as the Sedins have been when you have the 3 Kaiju in California romping around in our division? He went to the right team and the right division imo. The east suits his game much better than the way things are in the west.

Edited November 8, 2014 by ghjffbali

[Seven pounds soft]

he's been sucking ass lately eh?

Well. I'm not sure what he does in his personal time. But he's out to lunch when it comes to jake Virtanen. So many wrong opinions I don't even know where to start. So I won't.

[LeanBeef]

Cant wait to see him and Nick Ritchie cause havoc for team Canada during the wjc.

Maybe they can be a higher scoring version of Foligno and Kassian in 2010?