[Waivers] Zack Kassian

[Chalky]

Minnesota claimed Stoll, it will not surprise me to see Kassian claimed by someone.  There's always a point in arguing whether the Canucks should cliam him, especially on the Canucks forum, but it really has to be a moot point.  Why would the team that gave up on him try and claim him.  It would send a bad message to the dressing room, and regardless of how Kassian feels about the Canucks, he would have to face a crapstorm from fans and media right in the middle of recovery.  Not going to happen.

[Darius]

4 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Yeah - I meant to - more truculence for Burkie would not play out well for us lol.

imagine poor weber if he had both Ferkleboy and Zack to deal with on the forecheck!

 

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said:

I'm pretty sure they can do that. Just as Montreal is going to probably do.   If he doesn't get claimed , he's going down for a 14 day conditioning assignment , and at the end of that if Montreal doesn't recall him , he has to again be put on waivers to stay with the affiliate team. if he isn't claimed then it's done and he can be on the affiliate team till his contract expires

No.  You're wrong about this.  They're putting him on waivers instead of a conditioning stint.  They won't have to expose him again after 14 days in order to keep him there.

That's the strategic timing aspect of this that suggests they want to keep him - they're making it more difficult for any team that claims him - it's a disincentive that they're using to try to get him through waivers quickly so they can use a longer term to get him back to NHL ready.

[qwijibo]

2 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said:

I'm pretty sure they can do that. Just as Montreal is going to probably do.   If he doesn't get claimed , he's going down for a 14 day conditioning assignment , and at the end of that if Montreal doesn't recall him , he has to again be put on waivers to stay with the affiliate team. if he isn't claimed then it's done and he can be on the affiliate team till his contract expires

Actually, you're totally wrong.  Montreal isn't sending him on a conditioning stint.  They put him on waivers with the intention of assigning him to St Johns.  If he clears there's no time limit for him to be in the AHL.  If Vancouver claims him then they have to keep him on the roster.  The exception is if he agrees to a 14 day conditioning stint in Utica.  at which point he would have to return to the Canucks.  If Vancouver claimed him with the intention of just assigning him to Utica then he'd go right back on waivers

[Warhippy]

24 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Character (whatever that means these days) doesn't win you a Stanley Cup. An upstanding, honest, and clean young man can still be shoulder checked right into the boards.

The Bruins won in 2011, and they didn't do it with character.

Not to mention Kane won it three times now after some ugly issues, Kings won it twice as well and look at some of those upstanding members of society.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

I think there is next to no chance Benning claims him.

And I think this is a strategic timing move by a Montreal team that wants to keep him.

I personally would like this guy - if healthy - back in our lineup.

Say what you want, but those games - like the one in Anaheim - where this team got pushed around without a whimper from our 'pushback' guys - would never have taken place with Kassian around. No question about that - Zack never failed to stand up for his team-mates - you simply have to give the young man that.  He didn't command the top six role people expected of him, but at the same time, his game was nowhere near as bad as some haters (yeah the term applies in this case) here suggested.   His underlying numbers were respectable, his production relative to situational use was fine - his game wasn't entirely consistent - not unlike guys like Vey and Baertschi in the same age range - but he was easily as visible as them and when it came to providing nuclear deterrence, it was nice to finally have that in our lineup, particularly in a form that can actually play a skilled bottom six role.

I wish him the best regardless of where he landes.

What i liked about Zack was that he kept other teams honest, not because he was willing to drop the gloves (which he was), but because he had just enough unpredictable crazy that teams were always worried about what he might do.  That can be a valuable tool.

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Minnesota claimed Stoll, it will not surprise me to see Kassian claimed by someone.  There's always a point in arguing whether the Canucks should cliam him, especially on the Canucks forum, but it really has to be a moot point.  Why would the team that gave up on him try and claim him.  It would send a bad message to the dressing room, and regardless of how Kassian feels about the Canucks, he would have to face a crapstorm from fans and media right in the middle of recovery.  Not going to happen.

That's the point at which the argument breaks down - when teams trade a player for another asset, they're not necessarily 'giving up' on a player - they're exchanging them for someone they feel is a better fit.  The Canucks didn't waive Zack - they traded him for a serviceable NHL veteran.

Yes, he'd have to deal with the Vancouver twits-of-verse if he returned - but who cares what the dimwits in Vancouver say anyhow.

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Not to mention Kane won it three times now after some ugly issues, Kings won it twice as well and look at some of those upstanding members of society.

But in Vancouver, it's all about character.

[FlyLow_]

9 minutes ago, Canorth said:

Some of the strongest people that I know have come out of an addiction. It's living through Diversity that builds character. 

 

Edit: what Oldnews said

 

I wasn't specifically speaking about drugs when I said Kassian isn't a high character player, I said he isn't a high character player because he isn't. Just because you answer the questions you are supposed to answer the way you are supposed to answer them doesn't make you high character. That would mean nearly every player in the NHL is a high character player, which isn't true.

Teams trade, draft and evaluate based on character all the time. Effort, leadership and willingness to sacrifice for your team are 3 main areas used to evaluate character in hockey. Zack was not above average in any of these areas in his time as a Canuck.

Guys like Prust, Dorsett, Horvat are high character players. Yes even Prust, who does questionable things, is considered to have very high character by many of the most respected hockey people.

As far as the addiction part of this. I wish Zack the best, but I've also been around this stuff enough to know people don't change unless they take it upon themselves to do what is necessary. Being forced to go to rehab or the NHL will stop giving you your millions of dollars is not the kind of situation I've ever seen work, nor is it one I have sympathy for.

[oldnews]

Just now, stawns said:

What i liked about Zack was that he kept other teams honest, not because he was willing to drop the gloves (which he was), but because he had just enough unpredictable crazy that teams were always worried about what he might do.  That can be a valuable tool.

Exactly.  And some of the teams that attempted to run intimidation most frequently - ie Toronto (of the Burke era), LA - were actually most evidently intimidated by him.

[Smiley2051]

5 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Minnesota claimed Stoll, it will not surprise me to see Kassian claimed by someone.  There's always a point in arguing whether the Canucks should cliam him, especially on the Canucks forum, but it really has to be a moot point.  Why would the team that gave up on him try and claim him.  It would send a bad message to the dressing room, and regardless of how Kassian feels about the Canucks, he would have to face a crapstorm from fans and media right in the middle of recovery.  Not going to happen.

I don't think management expected to have constructed a roster with such little "push back", I'd take him back just for a presence of that type of player again.

[MovesLikeDatsyuk]

Kassian will be on Team Vegas before you know it.

[nuckin_futz]

14 minutes ago, Pears said:

+1. I think going through the substance abuse program helped Kass mature as a person as well. I would not have a problem with bringing him back. 

It didn't the first time he went through the program (stage 1). This is now strike 2. And don't forget he didn't just fail a drug test. He got himself into stage 2 in spectacular fashion. In a car wreck (granted he was the passenger) that could have killed someone. That's a little more serious than smoking a doobie. That's goes from self harm to reckless endangerment of others. That's a pretty big character issue for any team to accept.

I'd be stunned if JB/WD took another chance on him. They tried and gave up and Kass proved them right by his subsequent actions. I am sure JB/WD are thanking their lucky stars that accident was in Montreal and not Vancouver.

It's now on Kass to prove he can stay clean and contribute. Until he does, any team picking him up is gambling. They may get a player, they may get a massive headache.

One more thing, he broke his foot in that accident. Is it fully healed? Does anyone know?

 

[Chalky]

2 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said:

hes already in a crapstorm and has been for a while now.  I'm sure even Aquilini is squirming too.

It would be worse here than anywhere, and it would be torture for the management group.  I can't see TL or Benning doing it to take a chance on a player who is a gamble at the moment.  We need a sure thing, not a wildcard.  This from a Kassian fan, I'm rooting for him to get his head straight.

[qwijibo]

8 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Minnesota claimed Stoll, it will not surprise me to see Kassian claimed by someone.  There's always a point in arguing whether the Canucks should cliam him, especially on the Canucks forum, but it really has to be a moot point.  Why would the team that gave up on him try and claim him.  It would send a bad message to the dressing room, and regardless of how Kassian feels about the Canucks, he would have to face a crapstorm from fans and media right in the middle of recovery.  Not going to happen.

Apples and oranges.  Stoll is still in game shape. Kassian has not only not seen the ice in 3 months, but he's been undergoing intensive rehab. I would think going through withdrawal will have taken a physical toll on him. It's likely to be several weeks before he's close to being ready to play in an NHL level game

[Bissurnette]

I'd grab him without a second thought!!

[MovesLikeDatsyuk]

1 minute ago, chilliwiggins said:

Are there odds yet?

Should be. I mean they got odds up over stuff like will Lebron James wear his head band tonight. Dun dun dun!!!

[Darius]

Watch the Bruins claim him - taking away a potential thorn in their side from Montreal.

[surtur]

Wonder if Florida would take a shot at him. Could fit in well with that team. big young fast team.

 

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, FlyLow_ said:

 

I wasn't specifically speaking about drugs when I said Kassian isn't a high character player, I said he isn't a high character player because he isn't. Just because you answer the questions you are supposed to answer the way you are supposed to answer them doesn't make you high character. That would mean nearly every player in the NHL is a high character player, which isn't true.

Teams trade, draft and evaluate based on character all the time. Effort, leadership and willingness to sacrifice for your team are 3 main areas used to evaluate character in hockey. Zack was not above average in any of these areas in his time as a Canuck.

Guys like Prust, Dorsett, Horvat are high character players. Yes even Prust, who does questionable things, is considered to have very high character by many of the most respected hockey people.

As far as the addiction part of this. I wish Zack the best, but I've also been around this stuff enough to know people don't change unless they take it upon themselves to do what is necessary. Being forced to go to rehab or the NHL will stop giving you your millions of dollars is not the kind of situation I've ever seen work, nor is it one I have sympathy for.

I think you make really good points there - completely valid qualifications of what you were getting at - but the one I'd disagree with is the claim that Zack wasn't willing to sacrifice.  I don't think you're taking into account the very high risk he took when he went about that part of his job that was to protect his team-mates.  He dropped the gloves with some serious heavyweights - and actually not only survived those bouts, but in the process earned himself a bye from a lot more by KOing some notable giants - Ben Eager for example.  Guys like Phaneuf were scared sh!tless of him, the Kings ran away from him - on lots of occasions he had the ability to absolutely neutralize teams taking liberties at the expense of the Sedins et al. 

Whether it's recognized or not - that is definitely sacrifice - and on top of that it's been very clearly evidenced that players who have fulfilled that role have paid a very high price in the form of concussions, the greater risk of substance abuse problems - and beyond - that comes with enforcing in the NHL.