Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Mad Jon]

4 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Good luck trying to sit down.    Put some ice on that.....

I didn’t get that one but apparently you need the last word.

[Kanukfanatic]

1 minute ago, Mad Jon said:

I didn’t get that one but apparently you need the last word.

He does...ignore it. Lots of us do.  

[Rob_Zepp]

6 minutes ago, Mad Jon said:

I didn’t get that one but apparently you need the last word.

It'll come to you later.

 

Please respond, I insist your need to stalk OJ have the last word.    

 

PS - he likes the grape G2.....not the orange.

[Mad Jon]

14 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

It'll come to you later.

 

Please respond, I insist your need to stalk OJ have the last word.    

 

PS - he likes the grape G2.....not the orange.

Very intelligent.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Mad Jon said:

Very intelligent.

Now don’t get ... mad ... Jon.  Sorry, I’ve had a couple, and thought that’s funny.  

[Mad Jon]

25 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

He does...ignore it. Lots of us do.  

Thanks for that. I was beginning to think that I was the nut.

[Mad Jon]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Now don’t get ... mad ... Jon.  Sorry, I’ve had a couple, and thought that’s funny.  

You have a unique sense of humour Alf. At times I worry about your sanity and at other times.....You’re bordering on brilliance. Whatever........I like you a bunch.

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, Pete M said:

Should have picked MT, then we would not have to worry about OJ's rehab...no offense...lol

Still hindsighting wrong I see. To hindsight correctly, you still don't take puke face and instead trade down and grab McAvoy +

[18W-40C-6W]

10 hours ago, Mathew Barzal said:

I don't see that as putting Juolevi down, I see that as putting our scouting staff down and management down. Although I can see why people would take it the wrong way.

I guess when their careers are done, we'll all be in the right place to fairly and objectively evaluate who the best player/pick was. Just because MT was able to step right in as a winger, doesn't mean he was and will be the best pick over his career or for the team. The fastest runner over the first 100 meters of a 5000 meter race isn't always the winner.

 

Wingers generally have an easier time making a NHL team vis a vis defensemen. Everyone knows defense is probably the toughest position in hockey to play, and second of course is center. Both positions need alot of situational awareness only gained via playing against men (ie AHL or 4th line), and also as importantly, man strength, which takes time to acquire, not everyone grows at the same pace. Wingers, given a much easier defensive role, don't need as much strength nor awareness. Defensemen have to battle players who are 6'4'' and 220 and be able to stay with guys like Patrick Kane and Mckinnon/Crosby/Mcdavid. Its not easy for an 18/19 yr old to step in guy. And if one does, you better bloody well have a all star D corps to insulate him with. We had a  junk yard. Not to mention they are potentially 4-8 winger spots open to put a player into, vs legitimately 2 (5/6) for a young dman. And in all reality, you don't want a young offensive dman playing 6-8 mins a night on the bottom pairing, this doesn't help his game. He's better off playing top 4 mins, PP and PK vs men in the AHL/Overseas, gaining strength and experience as a step between junior and the NHL. This is all common sense, which many OJ critics ignore.

 

Right now, sure MT is looking like the better pick, and he's a great player, but it doesn't follow that just because MT is a great player, OJ won't be as well. OJ was known to require a year or two to gain strength, many dmen require that. He then had a couple of unfortunate injuries, else we certainly would have seen him up with the Canucks at some point last year (after a slow start, hard adjustment the first handful of games, by all accounts he was showing quite well). As for Sergachev, he's a disaster in his own end, and was sat multiple times last year because of it, he's getting points on the most offensive team in the NHL, on a superb PP, its not a reflection of how great he is guy. Sergchev has averaged 35.3% dzone starts over his 3 year career for a reason. His deployment heavily offensive because he can't play defense well, and his possession stats are bolstered by playing with the best possession team in the NHL, that scores in bushels full. Context matters. In the playoffs his Dzone starts have averaged 23.1% over 2 years, to me that tells a real story that many don't think about.

 

The game isn't over champ, and only people who need to feel like they are right jump and down and repeat what you do. Let's revisit how 'bad' a pick OJ was when he's played 250 games in the NHL, by then we'll see what we have. My guess is he gets 20-30 of those games this coming season. I am sure you'll be here to criticize any mistake he makes then as well

Edited July 5, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W

[Mathew Barzal]

12 hours ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

I guess when their careers are done, we'll all be in the right place to fairly and objectively evaluate who the best player/pick was. Just because MT was able to step right in as a winger, doesn't mean he was and will be the best pick over his career or for the team. The fastest runner over the first 100 meters of a 5000 meter race isn't always the winner.

 

Wingers generally have an easier time making a NHL team vis a vis defensemen. Everyone knows defense is probably the toughest position in hockey to play, and second of course is center. Both positions need alot of situational awareness only gained via playing against men (ie AHL or 4th line), and also as importantly, man strength, which takes time to acquire, not everyone grows at the same pace. Wingers, given a much easier defensive role, don't need as much strength nor awareness. Defensemen have to battle players who are 6'4'' and 220 and be able to stay with guys like Patrick Kane and Mckinnon/Crosby/Mcdavid. Its not easy for an 18/19 yr old to step in guy. And if one does, you better bloody well have a all star D corps to insulate him with. We had a  junk yard. Not to mention they are potentially 4-8 winger spots open to put a player into, vs legitimately 2 (5/6) for a young dman. And in all reality, you don't want a young offensive dman playing 6-8 mins a night on the bottom pairing, this doesn't help his game. He's better off playing top 4 mins, PP and PK vs men in the AHL/Overseas, gaining strength and experience as a step between junior and the NHL. This is all common sense, which many OJ critics ignore.

 

Right now, sure MT is looking like the better pick, and he's a great player, but it doesn't follow that just because MT is a great player, OJ won't be as well. OJ was known to require a year or two to gain strength, many dmen require that. He then had a couple of unfortunate injuries, else we certainly would have seen him up with the Canucks at some point last year (after a slow start, hard adjustment the first handful of games, by all accounts he was showing quite well). As for Sergachev, he's a disaster in his own end, and was sat multiple times last year because of it, he's getting points on the most offensive team in the NHL, on a superb PP, its not a reflection of how great he is guy. Sergchev has averaged 35.3% dzone starts over his 3 year career for a reason. His deployment heavily offensive because he can't play defense well, and his possession stats are bolstered by playing with the best possession team in the NHL, that scores in bushels full. Context matters. In the playoffs his Dzone starts have averaged 23.1% over 2 years, to me that tells a real story that many don't think about.

 

The game isn't over champ, and only people who need to feel like they are right jump and down and repeat what you do. Let's revisit how 'bad' a pick OJ was when he's played 250 games in the NHL, by then we'll see what we have. My guess is he gets 20-30 of those games this coming season. I am sure you'll be here to criticize any mistake he makes then as well

That's all good and well, I never insinuated that Tkachuk and Sergachev were definitively better picks than Juolevi. I only said that the people harping on the pick weren't targeting Juolevi as a player. I still don't think Juolevi is a whipping boy.

[Bure_Pavel]

15 hours ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

I guess when their careers are done, we'll all be in the right place to fairly and objectively evaluate who the best player/pick was. Just because MT was able to step right in as a winger, doesn't mean he was and will be the best pick over his career or for the team. The fastest runner over the first 100 meters of a 5000 meter race isn't always the winner.

 

Wingers generally have an easier time making a NHL team vis a vis defensemen. Everyone knows defense is probably the toughest position in hockey to play, and second of course is center. Both positions need alot of situational awareness only gained via playing against men (ie AHL or 4th line), and also as importantly, man strength, which takes time to acquire, not everyone grows at the same pace. Wingers, given a much easier defensive role, don't need as much strength nor awareness. Defensemen have to battle players who are 6'4'' and 220 and be able to stay with guys like Patrick Kane and Mckinnon/Crosby/Mcdavid. Its not easy for an 18/19 yr old to step in guy. And if one does, you better bloody well have a all star D corps to insulate him with. We had a  junk yard. Not to mention they are potentially 4-8 winger spots open to put a player into, vs legitimately 2 (5/6) for a young dman. And in all reality, you don't want a young offensive dman playing 6-8 mins a night on the bottom pairing, this doesn't help his game. He's better off playing top 4 mins, PP and PK vs men in the AHL/Overseas, gaining strength and experience as a step between junior and the NHL. This is all common sense, which many OJ critics ignore.

 

Right now, sure MT is looking like the better pick, and he's a great player, but it doesn't follow that just because MT is a great player, OJ won't be as well. OJ was known to require a year or two to gain strength, many dmen require that. He then had a couple of unfortunate injuries, else we certainly would have seen him up with the Canucks at some point last year (after a slow start, hard adjustment the first handful of games, by all accounts he was showing quite well). As for Sergachev, he's a disaster in his own end, and was sat multiple times last year because of it, he's getting points on the most offensive team in the NHL, on a superb PP, its not a reflection of how great he is guy. Sergchev has averaged 35.3% dzone starts over his 3 year career for a reason. His deployment heavily offensive because he can't play defense well, and his possession stats are bolstered by playing with the best possession team in the NHL, that scores in bushels full. Context matters. In the playoffs his Dzone starts have averaged 23.1% over 2 years, to me that tells a real story that many don't think about.

 

The game isn't over champ, and only people who need to feel like they are right jump and down and repeat what you do. Let's revisit how 'bad' a pick OJ was when he's played 250 games in the NHL, by then we'll see what we have. My guess is he gets 20-30 of those games this coming season. I am sure you'll be here to criticize any mistake he makes then as well

Tkachuk already has 174 points in the NHL, Juolevi better start catching up soon 

[Noble 6]

I do think it's fair to say that two knee surgeries and one back surgery has likely impacted potential. He could make up the lost developmental time, but it would likely be very difficult and therefore unlikely. I don't think it's very likely that he hits his potential as a top pairing, big minute, two-way defenseman along the lines of Suter. Someone who can lock down a second pairing along the lines of Hjalmarsson in Chicago is the most likely scenario in my eyes. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

13 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

I do think it's fair to say that two knee surgeries and one back surgery has likely impacted potential. He could make up the lost developmental time, but it would likely be very difficult and therefore unlikely. I don't think it's very likely that he hits his potential as a top pairing, big minute, two-way defenseman along the lines of Suter. Someone who can lock down a second pairing along the lines of Hjalmarsson in Chicago is the most likely scenario in my eyes. 

It might also be a case of other prospects like Woo passing by him in the depth chart.

[The Lock]

48 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

I do think it's fair to say that two knee surgeries and one back surgery has likely impacted potential. He could make up the lost developmental time, but it would likely be very difficult and therefore unlikely. I don't think it's very likely that he hits his potential as a top pairing, big minute, two-way defenseman along the lines of Suter. Someone who can lock down a second pairing along the lines of Hjalmarsson in Chicago is the most likely scenario in my eyes. 

My main concern with Juolevi I think at this point would not be skill. It would be with his health. I could see him becoming our next Salo basically in terms of injuries, but it's way too early still to completely come to that conclusion at least and we can be hopeful.

[dpn1]

32 minutes ago, The Lock said:

My main concern with Juolevi I think at this point would not be skill. It would be with his health. I could see him becoming our next Salo basically in terms of injuries, but it's way too early still to completely come to that conclusion at least and we can be hopeful.

I wouldn't mind a Salo but with out the injuries please 

[Rob_Zepp]

18 hours ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

I guess when their careers are done, we'll all be in the right place to fairly and objectively evaluate who the best player/pick was. Just because MT was able to step right in as a winger, doesn't mean he was and will be the best pick over his career or for the team. The fastest runner over the first 100 meters of a 5000 meter race isn't always the winner.

Should be required reading for every single thread on every single prospect.

[WeneedLumme]

6 hours ago, Mathew Barzal said:

That's all good and well, I never insinuated that Tkachuk and Sergachev were definitively better picks than Juolevi. I only said that the people harping on the pick weren't targeting Juolevi as a player. I still don't think Juolevi is a whipping boy.

What utter crap. And what exactly do you think the people harping on the pick do? They talk about how crappy and worthless OJ is and always will be, how he is a complete bust, etc., etc. Do you perhaps not understand what a whipping boy is?

[GoldenAlien]

[Rob_Zepp]

14 minutes ago, GoldenAlien said:

Markus is one of the the most level-headed European hockey gurus.   His long relationship with Sami Salo has assisted OJ as well.   

[aGENT]

51 minutes ago, GoldenAlien said:

+/- 2 months in Utica playing big minutes in all situations to get his legs under him and then welcome to Vancouver Olli