IBatch Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 2 hours ago, J.R. said: Seriously though we're rebuilding. It's not a 'finished product' yet. Over the next few years, on top of Horvat and Gudbranson, we're going to add players like Virtanen, Gadjovich, Gaudette etc. Tryamkin may come back in a few years, we may sign E Kane next year, etc, etc... Rome wasn't built in a day people. Rome was built probably in four five minutes and then twenty odd years later became a pivotal turning point in a Stanley Cup Final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: just what I was going to write, really. Bo's not a pushover. Virtanen can be very physical and annoying, Gadjovich looks to be no pushover, hopefully we can keep Guddy, and if we have enough speed and skill to stay out of our own zone more than 1/2 the time we'll be just fine. We sign E kane next summer, Virt makes the team, maybe Gadjovich/ McEwan the year following and suddenly we' have some decided push back on all four lines. I'm not remotely worried. In 3'ish years we could have something like: Kane, Pettersson, Boeser Dahlen, Horvat, Virtanen Gadjovich, Gaudette, Granlund Gaunce, Sutter, McEwan That won't be fun to play against. <<<<<Not remotely worried about push back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, J.R. said: We sign E kane next summer, Virt makes the team, maybe Gadjovich/ McEwan the year following and suddenly we' have some decided push back on all four lines. I'm not remotely worried. In 3'ish years we could have something like: Kane, Pettersson, Boeser Dahlen, Horvat, Virtanen Gadjovich, Gaudette, Granlund Gaunce, Sutter, McEwan That won't be fun to play against. <<<<<Not remotely worried about push back. and add in Guddy and maybe 1 more D with some size to that, and its a fun team to watch again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 This is good that people are seeing a plan take shape.......I have not aways agreed with Bennings decisions, but it is quite possible that Benning had this vision all along and it quite frankly doesn't happen all at once, as Myself, JR and S'all Good Man and others are suggesting Our depth has increase a thousand fold (I believe), we have young players that should start fighting for jobs in the next couple of years, and we suddenly have a team full of vets that can be moved for futures......what ever that may be........, with an already above average stable of players in the waiting (ranked as the 7 to 9 best prospect pool in the NHL To me, it is steady as she goes, and I hope Benning's plan is to move some of these vets, through the year, creating even more prospect and young player depth.......the list of players which can be moved grew quickly, and as long as Benning keeps this rotation, for the next couple of years, we will have a young team with good, strong youth on the farm pushing them.........I can't for the life of me, see how anyone can be upset with that..........maybe they are just confused, as we have never seen this before! LOL So, as we gain youth, we gain bargaining chips, either in the form of picks or prospects, which can then be turned into what ever you need....aka .....tougher, skilled players..... but remember it is not a instant type of progress, and moving like that may cost way more than it should.... This is why I created the post " Benning is doing a great job"! Go to Cap Friendly and look at how many veterans we have and how many young prospect are Waiver Free on the farm.......it is pretty incredible, actually for the short time he has been doing it! The fun part, will be the next couple of years, with possibly trading vets (Edler, Sutter, Vanek, Eriksson, Gagner, Del Zotto, etc) who will bring back even more assets. in the form of prospects and picks, and maybe, who knows another bigger, strong, grittier player, to add to the collection........but I caution everyone If you force the situation, you increase the possibility of making a mistake...... I really do think Benning is doing a great job! Really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: This is good that people are seeing a plan take shape.......I have not aways agreed with Bennings decisions, but it is quite possible that Benning had this vision all along and it quite frankly doesn't happen all at once, as Myself, JR and S'all Good Man and others are suggesting Our depth has increase a thousand fold (I believe), we have young players that should start fighting for jobs in the next couple of years, and we suddenly have a team full of vets that can be moved for futures......what ever that may be........, with an already above average stable of players in the waiting (ranked as the 7 to 9 best prospect pool in the NHL To me, it is steady as she goes, and I hope Benning's plan is to move some of these vets, through the year, creating even more prospect and young player depth.......the list of players which can be moved grew quickly, and as long as Benning keeps this rotation, for the next couple of years, we will have a young team with good, strong youth on the farm pushing them.........I can't for the life of me, see how anyone can be upset with that..........maybe they are just confused, as we have never seen this before! LOL So, as we gain youth, we gain bargaining chips, either in the form of picks or prospects, which can then be turned into what ever you need....aka .....tougher, skilled players..... but remember it is not a instant type of progress, and moving like that may cost way more than it should.... This is why I created the post " Benning is doing a great job"! Go to Cap Friendly and look at how many veterans we have and how many young prospect are Waiver Free on the farm.......it is pretty incredible, actually for the short time he has been doing it! The fun part, will be the next couple of years, with possibly trading vets (Edler, Sutter, Vanek, Eriksson, Gagner, Del Zotto, etc) who will bring back even more assets. in the form of prospects and picks, and maybe, who knows another bigger, strong, grittier player, to add to the collection........but I caution everyone If you force the situation, you increase the possibility of making a mistake...... I really do think Benning is doing a great job! Really! Yes, our prospect pool is the deepest we've had. I'm really excited for our future. However the "true" and full rebuild didn't start until the 2017 TDL. The Loui Errikson signing was quite clearly a "retool" move. JB's recent UFA signings are much shorter term, and lesser players, who in no way could be considered "core" guys. JB signed guys he can trade at coming TDLs for picks. I see us, for the first time under JB, in the coming drafts having more than the allotted seven picks. We are rebuilding now, and I'm glad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Riviera82 said: I think this problem starts with this team's leadership. For the longest time the Canucks have been led by non-gritty, non-physical, non-confrontational european players. The rest of the team for the most part follows their leaders example and hence we have a team of "nice guys" who get walked on frequently and slink away from adversity with their heads hung low. Perhaps once these certain players are no longer with the Canucks, the team can then follow the example of a player like Bo Horvat, and whoever is managing the team at that time can inject more like-minded and aggressive type players into the lineup. We might still lose a lot of games but our opponents wont have any fun winning. Absolutely agree with you. The culture has to change, and Horvat's the one that can change it. 1 hour ago, N7Nucks said: This is exactly why I hope guys like Gadjovich and Jake become NHLers. Gudbranson can hold it down from the back end. Jake and Jonah if development goes well can play on two separate lines to bring toughness. Bo is not a softy brings that Trevor Linden toughness. He is our Trevor Linden. I am not incredibly worried about fighters per se, just as long as they push back when other teams try take liberties. Don't need consistent hitters or fighters, just guys that don't take crap from anyone. Like Hansen and Burrows. Warriors, not fighters. I just can't stand to see guys like Baertschi and Granlund get shoved around and all they do is just give a smirk in return and run back to the bench. If we had players that can protect guys like them, teams would be less keen on taking liberties and be more cautious. As much as I'll miss the Sedins, but as long as they're in this organization, this whole grit/pushback issue will remain. I do agree with posters like @J.R. and @Eastcoast meets Westcoast that pushback and grit thing is building, but I'm more concerned with the issue we have currently as I do not like this mentality of "in a few years, this.....". We have 3 guys in our line-up that bring toughness ones an extra forward, ones a bottom-pairing d, one's a future captain. Benning should have addressed this, he didn't, so that's alright. But it's up to guys like Horvat and Travis Green himself to bring in a different set of mentality and culture in that locker-room. New coach, new players, new style of hockey. No more boring passive hockey, time for inspired, exciting, aggressive type hockey. Your last few sentences are bang-on. We are in a rebuild, so we are gonna lose games and that's acceptable but it's only acceptable if we've given everything we've got and made it hard for the opponents to win, which involves grit and pushback. If guys like Vanek and Eriksson play uninspired, ship them out immediately and bring in one of our NHL ready prospects because personally I won't have the patience to watch these guys play atrociously and take spots from our prospects. The good thing is, with Green at the realm, veterans won't get away with all of things that they do get away with. I really think we're due for a fun season of unsuspecting things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agent007 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 14 hours ago, Odd. said: One of my greatest pet peeves with this team is that we have absolutely 0 pushback and no grit whatsoever and Benning/co have done nothing to address this. I remember near the end of the season Horvat and Hutton going toe-to-toe with players that are normally known to fight. I thought to myself damn, that was really nice to see, because the nights before, John Garrett had given a lecture and said that this team lacked pushback and grit and often times let themselves get punched and beaten without ever retaliating or at the very least defending themselves. All of that was nice, but the kids shouldn't have had to defend for themselves. The problem is, we have nobody that can fight in our line-up and protect the guys. We can't depend on Gudbranson every night and Dorsett is a 13th forward. We have a very small and soft core and I'm not looking forward to watching us get physically dominated on most nights.. Benning talks about competition...blah blah blah. but I was extremely disappointed that he didn't address this problem that we have. You see Edmonton getting bigger, stronger, intimidating, hell even Calgary who we used to shove around and literally made them our bitches, we watch them get better and they look to be serious serious contenders. I hope we have a fix to this, cause I can't stand to watch our young guys get liberties taken on them without anyone to answer. I just hate the feeling of seeing us getting dominated physically and then we leave the ice with this defeated, beaten, uninspired look on our faces. Not saying that we should be total goons out there, but we need guys that can play and provide toughness and grittiness. This is what many fans like me want to see addressed. Just wanted to get that off my chest. Let's hope for a different, inspired team under Green. Go Canucks. Everyone has pushback within themselves. Do you think the lack of pushback has something to do with a lack of confidence? Due to an adjustment period, getting acclimated to the NHL, and finding individual and team identity. Hard to accomplish in a trough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 I'm sure we could probably get Sestito back from Pittsburgh if we ask really nicely. Problem solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Drafting Gadjovic was a start. You still need players that can play, grit can be addressed once this team makes the next step and gets close to competing for a playoff spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 11 hours ago, Where'd Luongo? said: Mine is bringing in old guys to play on an aging roster. Says the guy who wants Luongo back....LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 40 minutes ago, Odd. said: Benning should have addressed this, he didn't, so that's alright. It's not a matter of 'alright' or 'not alright' IMO. A 29th place, rebuilding team is inherently going to have weaknesses. If we were 'tougher', we'd be even less skilled (already a problem on its own). We're very much a work in progress. As the saying goes, it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said: This is good that people are seeing a plan take shape.......I have not aways agreed with Bennings decisions, but it is quite possible that Benning had this vision all along and it quite frankly doesn't happen all at once, as Myself, JR and S'all Good Man and others are suggesting Our depth has increase a thousand fold (I believe), we have young players that should start fighting for jobs in the next couple of years, and we suddenly have a team full of vets that can be moved for futures......what ever that may be........, with an already above average stable of players in the waiting (ranked as the 7 to 9 best prospect pool in the NHL To me, it is steady as she goes, and I hope Benning's plan is to move some of these vets, through the year, creating even more prospect and young player depth.......the list of players which can be moved grew quickly, and as long as Benning keeps this rotation, for the next couple of years, we will have a young team with good, strong youth on the farm pushing them.........I can't for the life of me, see how anyone can be upset with that..........maybe they are just confused, as we have never seen this before! LOL So, as we gain youth, we gain bargaining chips, either in the form of picks or prospects, which can then be turned into what ever you need....aka .....tougher, skilled players..... but remember it is not a instant type of progress, and moving like that may cost way more than it should.... This is why I created the post " Benning is doing a great job"! Go to Cap Friendly and look at how many veterans we have and how many young prospect are Waiver Free on the farm.......it is pretty incredible, actually for the short time he has been doing it! The fun part, will be the next couple of years, with possibly trading vets (Edler, Sutter, Vanek, Eriksson, Gagner, Del Zotto, etc) who will bring back even more assets. in the form of prospects and picks, and maybe, who knows another bigger, strong, grittier player, to add to the collection........but I caution everyone If you force the situation, you increase the possibility of making a mistake...... I really do think Benning is doing a great job! Really! Quite possible this was his plan? He has been very upfront about his plan from day 1 on the job and has stuck to it the whole way. I've never understood why so many fans never took him at his word and refused to look for the forest through the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on the cycle Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 I don't care about grit, I care about winning. However we get to winning, I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Yes, our prospect pool is the deepest we've had. I'm really excited for our future. However the "true" and full rebuild didn't start until the 2017 TDL. The Loui Errikson signing was quite clearly a "retool" move. JB's recent UFA signings are much shorter term, and lesser players, who in no way could be considered "core" guys. JB signed guys he can trade at coming TDLs for picks. I see us, for the first time under JB, in the coming drafts having more than the allotted seven picks. We are rebuilding now, and I'm glad. I don't see any difference between his stated plan at beginning and what he's currently doing. The plan remains the same. He's been rebuilding from the beginning while trying to keep the team competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 34 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Says the guy who wants Luongo back....LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). I want Luongo to be our backup instead of counting 5 million against our cap hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 16 minutes ago, Baggins said: I don't see any difference between his stated plan at beginning and what he's currently doing. The plan remains the same. He's been rebuilding from the beginning while trying to keep the team competitive. I know you do Baggins, but I disagree, as do many (so called) hockey experts. Even Trevor only after this last TDL started using "we are rebuilding". Remember prior to this TDL Trevor say it "wouldn't be fair to the Twins" to do a rebuild. Plus there is the last summer signing of Errikson. There was no reason to sign Errikson to 6 x 6 other than to support the Twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 I understand what the OP is saying, but I'm not really that concerned. First, this game has almost fully transitioned to one of skill and speed as opposed to size and fighting. Over the course of the next few years, fighting is going to become relatively rare and players putting themselves out of position to make the big hit are going to end up causing more odd man rushes than anything. So then it really comes down more to guys who can check, and take a check during regular play. As far as the latter is concerned, I think we're probably ok. Our smallest guys seem pretty mobile as to avoid many of the checks that come their way. As far as big guys who can check - yes, we are obviously lacking in that regard but I think that is less important in single games than it is through a playoff series... something we may or may not see in another year or two. Then, as someone pointed out, we also have some bigger guys in Utica who should be transitioning to the Canucks in pretty short order. So are we in great shape when it comes to bruising player? No, not really. But I don't believe it is as big of a detriment now than it used to be. We have some guys in the minors who should help the cause, and through drafts, trades, and potential UFA's over the next couple of years I think Benning has a real opportunity to increase our grit and size. My main concern over the course of the last couple of seasons is where we were going to get our skilled depth and high-end skill for our top 6. I think Benning has done an admirable job taking care of those core issues, and I have no issues if he wants to focus on the size and grit aspect a little later in his plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 JR paints a rosy picture of the toughness being added the right way throughout the organization and I agree with it. Jim obviously values toughness but with our scoring woes you can see why he's trying to infuse skill as well. I also think the reputation of Sedin leadership making the team soft is overstated - throughout the Sedin years we're pretty middle of the pack for fights per team. Guys like Bieksa, Lappiere, Burrows, Kesler, Torres, Dorsett, Sestito fought and played hard. While they themselves aren't scrappers I don't think the twins in the locker room wagging their fingers and shaking their heads disapprovingly at those who are. If we want more toughness we have to do it the way JR is saying - by acquiring more guys who bring that game and can play up the lineup. Horvat, Gaunce, Virtanen and Gadjovich are growing with upside beyond the 4th line. Bo, Gaunce and even Jake aren't "kids" anymore with multiple pro seasons under their belts. Trading for Guddy and taking a run at Kane in FA will help round it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: This is good that people are seeing a plan take shape.......I have not aways agreed with Bennings decisions, but it is quite possible that Benning had this vision all along and it quite frankly doesn't happen all at once, as Myself, JR and S'all Good Man and others are suggesting Our depth has increase a thousand fold (I believe), we have young players that should start fighting for jobs in the next couple of years, and we suddenly have a team full of vets that can be moved for futures......what ever that may be........, with an already above average stable of players in the waiting (ranked as the 7 to 9 best prospect pool in the NHL To me, it is steady as she goes, and I hope Benning's plan is to move some of these vets, through the year, creating even more prospect and young player depth.......the list of players which can be moved grew quickly, and as long as Benning keeps this rotation, for the next couple of years, we will have a young team with good, strong youth on the farm pushing them.........I can't for the life of me, see how anyone can be upset with that..........maybe they are just confused, as we have never seen this before! LOL So, as we gain youth, we gain bargaining chips, either in the form of picks or prospects, which can then be turned into what ever you need....aka .....tougher, skilled players..... but remember it is not a instant type of progress, and moving like that may cost way more than it should.... This is why I created the post " Benning is doing a great job"! Go to Cap Friendly and look at how many veterans we have and how many young prospect are Waiver Free on the farm.......it is pretty incredible, actually for the short time he has been doing it! The fun part, will be the next couple of years, with possibly trading vets (Edler, Sutter, Vanek, Eriksson, Gagner, Del Zotto, etc) who will bring back even more assets. in the form of prospects and picks, and maybe, who knows another bigger, strong, grittier player, to add to the collection........but I caution everyone If you force the situation, you increase the possibility of making a mistake...... I really do think Benning is doing a great job! Really! Quality post. Have more or less said the same several times. I think sometime last year this plan was put into full motion and we saw the results this summer. Benning has been very busy since before the trade deadline pushing this agenda into fruition. I also think he was an early adopter in the trend that the league is getting smaller and more skilled, you can see that in his drafting and his free agent signings aside from Weircioch ( and the trend is more applicable to the forwards anyways). If you look at the team now it's obvious we have two distinct age groups too, the free agents this summer that might stick past this year are all in their mid twenties and in their prime, and the prospect pool should be basically entering their prime more or less at the same time when these guys are all gone or if still around in their late prime. The past thirty group should be gone with the exception of L.E. by the time Horvat is Gagnes age and hopefully Pettersson is taking over first line duties by then with two or three other prospects working their way into the top nine as well. It's hard to know for sure how things will turn out, but Benning looks to have created a turbo injection into the prospect pool and line up in general by signing five mid twenties vets and one aging star in Vanek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyg43 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 The rebuild of the D seems out of sync with forward unit. as D take longer to develop than forwards 2 to 3 years longer on average. mine is that not enough D in rounds 2 an 3 have been added in the last three drafts .This was supposed to beGM strong suite . You cannot trade for two or three top 4 pairings without depleting the other , ie, forward depth. now in future drafting we will see a delayed lag time in the maturity in the next D core. It is too bad Tryamkin flew the coup An ran back to KHL. not even gonna mention goaltending it is another complete discussion thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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