The Tyler Toffoli trade is busting hard for us

[DollarAndADream]

There's no way that Benning could have seen the NHL shutting down and shortening the season. There's no way he could have seen Toffoli getting injured in Game 1 vs Minnesota and not playing yet during these playoffs.

 

Besides, he had 10 points in 10 games and helped this team get to where they were before the shutdown. Not to mention he's still in the bubble, so they definitely think he will return soon enough.

[48MPHSlapShot]

You're gonna get killed for this, as am I, but you're right. Even without the gift of hindsight, it was a bad trade for us from the get-go.

 

Madden was a pretty highly regarded prospect for us. Undersized yes, but still highly regarded, and there's no reason he couldn't have been moved over to the wing if we felt we were already set at center. And losing our 2nd round pick in a draft where we already didn't have a 1st makes it an even tougher pill to swallow. What's worse is that we're gonna be in a bit of cap trouble pretty soon, and now we have yet another player to sign, and if we don't sign him we end up losing Madden and the 2nd for nothing. And keep in mind that this was always going to be the case. 

 

Even if Madden wasn't a good fit with this organization, he could have been attached to one of our bad contracts to help get us out of our looming cap crunch, or he could have been swapped for a piece (like a blue chip D prospect) that wouldn't have been as redundant. 

 

 

[CanucksFan8353]

I guess what it boils down to is that being a fan all my life, I'm just pissed that from incidences like Cloutier going down when he was playing awesome against Calgary in '04 to Bertuzzi/Moore the same year to Hamhuis against Boston, we never get to ice a completely healthy team during our cup runs where, miraculously, all the other teams that win the Cup by and large stay 100% healthy, or at least it sure seems that way from my POV as a long-suffering Canucks fan.  I just want a chance for our best to play against their best, and we never seem to get that. 

 

If you could cite to me where a cup-winning team lost a top winger and a top 4-D and still won, I'd feel better. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Sean83

[Goal:thecup]

19 minutes ago, Sean83 said:

Just looked it up bud.  The standard recovery time per Google for a broken foot is 4 to 6 weeks (or longer). He was injured on August 2.  So that means we, at the earliest, would get him back the back-to-back on August 31/Sept 1 at the latest.

 

Also, anything more substantive to add, bud than "hard fail"?

[D-Money]

12 minutes ago, Sean83 said:

Well I'll grant you, you raise some good points there especially with Toffoli providing the depth.  Would feel better about no Toffoli if Boesser was producing at the level he's supposed to also.  I'm just frustrated that if we were able to, for once, ice a healthy roster with Myers, Toffoli, Ferland and Leivio, I'd bet you we'd be storming to the Cup for sure right now.  Instead we're heavy underdogs against the sainted Golden Knights. 

Injuries are inevitable. I’m sure the Blues wish they could have had Tarasenko playing at 100% too.

 

Vegas is almost fully healthy though, but they probably wish they didn’t have a very public goalie controversy hoping on right now. At least all of our guys are unified and going in the same direction,

[-AJ-]

11 minutes ago, Sean83 said:

It is a bad trade, yeah, because the truly exceptional players like Crosby, Jake G, Ovechkin, or Oshie don't go down when their teams are ready to make an extended cup run (not talking about Sid's concussion issues but when they were resolved for his cups in 2016/2017 and prior to the concussions in 2009).   Also sucks that he managed to stay healthy during LAK's 2 cup runs but couldn't for us.  History shows that you have to have players who know how to stay healthy to win the cup. 

 

The real reason I'm pissed though is because I truly believe a healthy Toffoli would go a long way towards winning us the series against VGK alone. 

This is one of the most baffling statements I've heard in a while. How does one "know how to stay healthy"? Is there some magical skill to strengthen one's bones to prevent injuries? Some brain enchantment to negate headshot concussions? Seems baffling to be to disparage a GM (or the player, for that matter) for unforseen injuries. It's not like players can control headshots of opponents or 100+mph slapshots at their net they need to block.

[JM_]

21 minutes ago, Sean83 said:

Just looked it up bud.  The standard recovery time per Google for a broken foot is 4 to 6 weeks (or longer). He was injured on August 2.  So that means we, at the earliest, would get him back the back-to-back on August 31/Sept 1 at the latest.

 

Also, anything more substantive to add, bud than "hard fail"?

this has a good chance of working out well. We don't know that it is a broken foot, could be a bone bruise. I suspect thats what it is since he has tried skating on it already. 

 

There's also a good chance he will want to stay with this group after what he's witnessed, he's joined an even better team that he thought. 

 

Plus that run TT went on at the end of the year is what got us here in the first place. 

 

More reason for optimism here than not.

[I.Am.Ironman]

14 minutes ago, Sean83 said:

It is a bad trade, yeah, because the truly exceptional players like Crosby, Jake G, Ovechkin, or Oshie don't go down when their teams are ready to make an extended cup run (not talking about Sid's concussion issues but when they were resolved for his cups in 2016/2017 and prior to the concussions in 2009).   Also sucks that he managed to stay healthy during LAK's 2 cup runs but couldn't for us.  History shows that you have to have players who know how to stay healthy to win the cup. 

 

The real reason I'm pissed though is because I truly believe a healthy Toffoli would go a long way towards winning us the series against VGK alone. 

What exceptional player is Jake G?

[CanucksFan8353]

1 minute ago, D-Money said:

Injuries are inevitable. I’m sure the Blues wish they could have had Tarasenko playing at 100% too.

 

Vegas is almost fully healthy though, but they probably wish they didn’t have a very public goalie controversy hoping on right now. At least all of our guys are unified and going in the same direction,

I did not realize VGK was almost fully healthy.  See...that's what I mean...just not fair at all.  All the breaks going to a team that hasn't even been in the league 5 years, while us, in the league for 50 years, get none ever. 

 

To the other poster who asked how players manage to stay healthy, I've read some articles or heard some commentaries on games that I've watched where they comment on this and say that it seems like the truly exceptional superstar athletes have a sort of 6th sense that allows them to avoid injuries and compete through a playoff run largely healthy. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 hour ago, Sean83 said:

I was initially a huge proponent of the trade but with him likely not being able to play in the playoffs for us this year, looks like GMJB made a big mistake.  We could have used the defensive depth that Tyler Madden would offer us down the road with the core being so strong.  Madden might have been that last bit to get our core to Cup Contenders down the line.  With Toffoli likely done like Ferland and Leivo though, it looks like the gamble GMJB made busted.  Goes to prove those of you who say "don't mortgage the future" right.  So frustrating! (And no, inserting an injured Toffoli into the series when we're down 3-0 or 3-1 ala us against Calgary in 2015 with the still busted Ryan Miller) doesn't count as good payback for the trade.  

 

Also makes me think of where we'd be if we had a healthy Toffoli, Ferland and Leivio in our roster this year, but, alas, Canucks luck. 

 

This trade is just really making me see red right now.  

OP, see you're a fresh face. Perhaps visiting from HF? To possibly get a clearer perspective on Gent Jim's highest standard of GM'ing, why don't you stroll over to my February thread(JB in Historical Context). I don't wanna' be tooo critical of this here thread, maybe you're also new to the game of ice hockey?!

Edited August 23, 2020 by Nuxfanabroad

[Shift-4]

stoopid benning always trades for injeries

[Shift-4]

25 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

What exceptional player is Jake G?

[Me_]

1 hour ago, Sean83 said:

I was initially a huge proponent of the trade but with him likely not being able to play in the playoffs for us this year, looks like GMJB made a big mistake.  We could have used the defensive depth that Tyler Madden would offer us down the road with the core being so strong.  Madden might have been that last bit to get our core to Cup Contenders down the line.  With Toffoli likely done like Ferland and Leivo though, it looks like the gamble GMJB made busted.  Goes to prove those of you who say "don't mortgage the future" right.  So frustrating! (And no, inserting an injured Toffoli into the series when we're down 3-0 or 3-1 ala us against Calgary in 2015 with the still busted Ryan Miller) doesn't count as good payback for the trade.  

 

Also makes me think of where we'd be if we had a healthy Toffoli, Ferland and Leivio in our roster this year, but, alas, Canucks luck. 

 

This trade is just really making me see red right now.  

The Canucks just beat the Stanley Cup champs and you're arguing that 150lbs Madden would be the difference?

 

The hell are you talking about now sit down.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Me_

[Sbriggs]

1 hour ago, Sean83 said:

I was initially a huge proponent of the trade but with him likely not being able to play in the playoffs for us this year, looks like GMJB made a big mistake.  We could have used the defensive depth that Tyler Madden would offer us down the road with the core being so strong.  Madden might have been that last bit to get our core to Cup Contenders down the line.  With Toffoli likely done like Ferland and Leivo though, it looks like the gamble GMJB made busted.  Goes to prove those of you who say "don't mortgage the future" right.  So frustrating! (And no, inserting an injured Toffoli into the series when we're down 3-0 or 3-1 ala us against Calgary in 2015 with the still busted Ryan Miller) doesn't count as good payback for the trade.  

 

Also makes me think of where we'd be if we had a healthy Toffoli, Ferland and Leivio in our roster this year, but, alas, Canucks luck. 

 

This trade is just really making me see red right now.  

You said it "Canucks Luck" definitely not JB's fault. How can you blame a GM for trying to improve his team. Your comments are ridiculous, isn't it time for your mama to change your diaper and feed you the bubba?

[189lb enforcers?]

Canucks Luck.

 

Moving on. 

[John.Tallhouse]

Watch TT come back next game 

[peaches5]

1 hour ago, Sean83 said:

I was initially a huge proponent of the trade but with him likely not being able to play in the playoffs for us this year, looks like GMJB made a big mistake.  We could have used the defensive depth that Tyler Madden would offer us down the road with the core being so strong.  Madden might have been that last bit to get our core to Cup Contenders down the line.  With Toffoli likely done like Ferland and Leivo though, it looks like the gamble GMJB made busted.  Goes to prove those of you who say "don't mortgage the future" right.  So frustrating! (And no, inserting an injured Toffoli into the series when we're down 3-0 or 3-1 ala us against Calgary in 2015 with the still busted Ryan Miller) doesn't count as good payback for the trade.  

 

Also makes me think of where we'd be if we had a healthy Toffoli, Ferland and Leivio in our roster this year, but, alas, Canucks luck. 

 

This trade is just really making me see red right now.  

This trade was made to keep Vancouver in a playoff spot and get the young players playoff experience. That was achieved. 

[Me_]

Just now, John.Tallhouse said:

Watch TT come back next game 

He may be in for the Knights series.

 

No one knows. The Canucks are back to vintage playoff hockey management; don't reveal.

 

[khay]

1 hour ago, DarkIndianRises said:

https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-toffoli-new-contract-bargain/

That's a good read. 

 

It would help open up the Canucks window to contend should Toffoli be had at a bargain deal. And when his contract is about to expire in 3-4 years, our draft picks from 2018/2019 (e.g., Hog and Podz) will be ready to take over the scoring role from Toffoli to keep the window open as long as possible.

 

[Pears]

1 hour ago, Sean83 said:

Just looked it up bud.  The standard recovery time per Google for a broken foot is 4 to 6 weeks (or longer). He was injured on August 2.  So that means we, at the earliest, would get him back the back-to-back on August 31/Sept 1 at the latest.

 

Also, anything more substantive to add, bud than "hard fail"?

There was a chance he could play tonight and he’s progressing but go off.