[Discussion] Arizona/OEL

[Pickly]

2 minutes ago, 250Integra said:

I'd rather us try to sign Pietrangelo for a shorter term / similar money (6 x 7.5 mil?) without giving up assets. We really need another RH option on defense. Hopefully this is Benning's plan B if this doesn't go through.

Man you have to realize that a UFA actually has to want to sign with a club and all signs point towards Pietrangelo staying south. Also, he’s gonna get more that 7.5 considering he’s the top UFA this year. 

[rekker]

1 minute ago, Pickly said:

Man you have to realize that a UFA actually has to want to sign with a club and all signs point towards Pietrangelo staying south. Also, he’s gonna get more that 7.5 considering he’s the top UFA this year. 

GM mode on the Xbox is rampant here. 

[oldnews]

40 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

 

If true - that's a good approach.  Here's our limit - we're done - take it or leave it.

[VegasCanuck]

14 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

When they are over the barrel you would offer that!

 

why lead with Sutter when there is a strong chance for LE especially when AZ are looking for real cash savings.

Either one, but they are trying to not only save actual cash, but cap as well. They need to fill out a team, Sutter accomplishes this for them better and still gets him off our books.

 

I think for them to round out a team, they would need us to retain some of Eriksson's cap hit, and I'm not sure that's the best solution for Eriksson. I think we can accomplish a lot with him, by assigning him to Utica for a season and then buying him out next off season.

 

The offer that I'm suggesting, is designed to put a 1st pairing guy in Vancouver, on defense while giving up 2 cap dumps and balancing those with a solid D (Stecher), and evolving D who's pretty close to playing in the NHL, (Brisbois), but is a LD, which we have a surplus of, a 1st and a 3rd...maybe make the 3rd a 5th.

 

If we assume that we're now a playoff team again for the foreseeable future, then we're looking at drafting later than 16 moving forward. The odds of getting a true first pairing D past 16, is pretty low. I think its worth giving up a reasonable offer to make the trade actually happen.

 

We'd essentially have a top 4 D of:

Hughes OEL

Edler Myers

 

for a net cap cost of around 1.8 million.

If you assume that Eriksson and Baer are destined for Utica next season, and that Ferland is going to run out his contract on LTIR, we'd still have around 18 million to spend on upgrades and resigning other RFAs and possible free agents.

[250Integra]

7 minutes ago, Pickly said:

Man you have to realize that a UFA actually has to want to sign with a club and all signs point towards Pietrangelo staying south. Also, he’s gonna get more that 7.5 considering he’s the top UFA this year. 

i don't know where you get 'all signs of him staying south" but that's fine. I'm just saying I hope Benning looks at him as a second option if this deal with OEL doesn't go through. Doesn't mean he'll choose us, but at least we should try.

 

He'll command north of 8 million but with some recent (disappointing) long-term contracts that have been offered, a lot of GM's will shy away from paying him that much since he'll likely only have 4-5 years of prime hockey left. Plus, the salary cap isn't going up so that'll be a factor as well.

 

This is all my opinion of course. We'll see what happens.

[oldnews]

OEL's agent stating that there were a lot of teams that inquired to ask if they'd expand their list to include them.

 

He and OEL like all the talented youth here - the pace they play with - the room to uptick - the Swedish connection in Vancouver - the hockey culture....

 

Expects to receive a qualifying offer for Virtanen later today.

Edited October 6, 2020 by oldnews

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

 

[Barry_Wilkins]

9 hours ago, dougieL said:

For 4 of the past 6 seasons, his numbers have been in the bottom 2/3 of the group you call "No. 1 dmen". You should look up what the average cap hit is for dmen in that range. I can't imagine a reasonable person believing that, at age 29, he is worth 8.25m for 7 more years - those numbers are reserved for _truly elite_ No. 1 dmen, not just dmen whose offensive production typically falls in the 20s.

 

 

I call OEL a number #1 Dman on offense because that's what he is. #1 means top 31 in the league. If you want to argue he's not Roman Josi or John Carlson, fine. But the definition is not for super elite #1 overall, but a true #1 as stacks up with the league . To quibble about his placement within it is a logical fallacy called moving the goalposts.

 

As for what he's worth, in your "truly elite" #1 category, Josi makes $9 mil per for another 7 years, Hedman makes $8 mil per, Pieterangelo just came off $6.5 mil, and is seeking over $9 mil long term, John Carlson is at $8 mil, Brent Burns is at $8 mil.

 

Hedman signed his contract 3 years ago (OEL's was just last year), before the flat cap arrived, so in today's terms, it'd be just shy of $9 mil. Pieterangelo's was signed about 7 years ago, Carlson is the true bargain as contrasted with OEL, and Burns was signed 3 years ago.

 

OEL, in comparison with those, is slightly overpaid, but it's not an onerous contract for what he brings to your team.

 

And again, just going by raw numbers, put, say, Victor Hedman on the Coyotes and OEL on Tampa Bay, manning that PP, and then let's compare point totals after a season.

[Dazzle]

28 minutes ago, Provost said:

That is OELs final deadline... that isn’t the only deadline.  That isn’t all the parties involved.

 

Us missing the draft,the RFA qualifying deadline, and signing our UFAs before free agency makes it a drastically harder deal to make on our end.  We will have had to make most of our other roster decisions before then.

 

If you can’t see that the ability to make other deals is impacted drastically once the the draft is done... you just can’t see that.  It is either obvious or it is beyond your ken.  Draft picks are one of the biggest currencies traded at this time of year... either incoming our outgoing.  

You always talk down on people, when you don't warrant being in that position.

 

Another thing you fail to account for is that Benning, as every good manager is, able to multitask. Just because he's negotiating the OEL transactions, it doesn't mean that he's not working on anything else. In short, he has a deadline to accomplish all those tasks, and it's not his first Rodeo.

 

Stop pretending to be someone you're not.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Gator]

1 minute ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

If we can get cap retention on atleast the last 3 years im all for it. His contract scares me though

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

1 hour ago, Squamfan said:

Bonino became Sutter who was usless, Sbisa was a plug,  traded the Mccann for another plug defenceman.

Pretty awful deal for both sides now if you think about it lol. At least Gudbranson turned into Pearson which makes it a little better

[aGENT]

31 minutes ago, 250Integra said:

I'd rather us try to sign Pietrangelo for a shorter term / similar money (6 x 7.5 mil?) without giving up assets. We really need another RH option on defense. Hopefully this is Benning's plan B if this doesn't go through.

 

28 minutes ago, FireGillis said:

Petro already turned down 8x8m from the blues.

And apparently wants $9m+ x 7 years and heavy bonus structured toward the end to prevent buyout, as well as zero indication he wants to come here, with likely ten to fifteen teams all competing for him.

 

 

If we can get OEL at bargain rates, it's the obvious choice 

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

4 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

This is why making the playoffs MATTERS. 

It leaves a good impression on other players 

[Moose Nuckle]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

 

And apparently wants $9m+ x 7 years and heavy bonus structured toward the end to prevent buyout, as well as zero indication he wants to come here, with likely ten to fifteen teams all competing for him.

 

 

If we can get OEL at bargain rates, it's the obvious choice 

Plus a bit of a cap exchange.

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, EP40. said:

For a certain user that was downplaying the OEL connection and thinking JB can’t make a vision of that of the Dallas blueline, 

 

JB literally mentioned both the Stars & Lightning defense to something he’d like to incorporate. Both teams have not 1 but 2 clear cut guys capable of moving the puck up the ice. He said we have Hughes but would like to add another guy via trade if it can get done.

 

Literally everything’s aligned up until this point...would be a shocker if a deal doesn’t get done at this rate.

It's ironic you raise that.

First - I haven't 'downplayed' any OEL connection - that's fiction. It's a highly unique situation - what I pointed out is that OEL has identified this team - otherwise they are highly unlikely to go seeking to acquire a player like him - it has so many prerequisites that make it a difficult deal for this team to make - not least of which is the cap tightness and the fact a LHD is not a principal need.  And again he's one defenseman - he's not the 'beginning of an overhaul' - an absurd claim that only people distant from this team could make (half their blueline from last season was new - and two of them are here to stay for some time - this team is not 'beginning' an overhaul - they are well on their way with a mere piece or two in question.

 

Second - you're the poster that claimed Krug is the better defenseman - that OEL is "inferior" - and then declined to answer why you believe that.  Because you didn't want to have a discussion with a 'certain user'...and yet, here you are, attempting make sideways posts where you've neither represented what I have to say, nor have you answered the simple question what makes a Krug 'superior' to Ekman-larsson...

 

OEL is not a comparable to a Krug or Barrie - period.  He's an all-situations defenseman - who - before Hedman arrived, was the #1 on one of the top 3 or 4 national teams in the world - and remains their captain - not a powerplay specialist or guy that needs high ozone starts and a partner to anchor him.

He is that anchor.

Moreover - the team's closest D prospect - Juolevi is a two way, defenseman - a D that is a puck mover - with excellent hockey intelligence - if they dont' acquire OEL they still have a solid prospect in the two way mold to compete for their 3LHD spot.  I have never implied that I don't want a second puck mover in the mix - what I want is a two way D that can move the puck - huge difference wadr.

 

One of the reasons I'd consider Ekman-larsson (in spite of being a LHD) - is that he is quite different in fact than Krug/Barrie types - he would literally make any pairing better - and with him and Edler, the team would have a serious 1-2 punch that would create all kinds of opportunity for Hughes.   However, it absolutely requires Arizona eating a comparable amount of cap in return - for me LE would be non-negotiable - he's in or there is no deal.

Krug and Barrie on the other hand - create an overlap as opposed to complement to Hughes - they don't bring all the other elements that Ekman-larsson does - they are more suited to teams - like Boston - that don't otherwise have a Hughes - and could use him as their top unit powerplay quarterback.   Krug makes little sense here - and to claim that OEL is "inferior" to him is sheer noob / highlight reel stuff. 

There you have it - once again - so you can avoid the matter and make your squiggley face - until the next time you misrepresent the point.

Edited October 6, 2020 by oldnews

[wai_lai416]

i'm going to say Boston will probably end up with OEL or OEL not traded at all. Markstrom Toffoli will all end up hitting free agency and we easily get outbidded. We'll enter 2020-21 season with an inferior lineup than this year since we are just gonna plug all those holes with rookies. that's just a very Canucks way of doing things. i mean if toffoli and Markstrom were to re-sign.. they prolly do it by now.. and not wait till 24hrs before free agency to get the final offer.. i mean might as well hit free agency at that point and see what other teams would offer. so wouldn't surprise me we go into next year minus Markstrom Tanev Toffoli and there's not much in terms of free agency to replace unless you want to overpay for like a hoffman and such and we'll still end up with Loui on our cap lol

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

 

Serious business going down...

[theo5789]

23 minutes ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

This is why making the playoffs MATTERS. 

It leaves a good impression on other players 

Nah let's tank 3 more years because we aren't there yet. But after 3 years of tanking, guaranteed Cup! 

[coryberg]

4 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

 

Serious business going down...

The video cut off... I was hoping the shop keeper was going to give her a delicious chocolate bar with a long term payment plan that was more than most family's could afford.