flickyoursedin Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 46 minutes ago, theo5789 said: I wonder how many would've been opposed to trading for Shea Weber when Montreal did. He was 30+ I believe at the time and had like 10 years left on his contract at 7.8+ million. And I wonder what their opinion is today of that trade. He does turn 36 this summer with 5 years remaining on his contract and if he retires early comes with a recapture penalty like us with Luongo. Weber was still going to give you good years but injury history and duration of contract there will be a point in the next 5 years where Weber will count for 8 million on the cap and not give you anywhere close to that value. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 1 minute ago, flickyoursedin said: He does turn 36 this summer with 5 years remaining on his contract and if he retires early comes with a recapture penalty like us with Luongo. Weber was still going to give you good years but injury history and duration of contract there will be a point in the next 5 years where Weber will count for 8 million on the cap and not give you anywhere close to that value. Habs gave themselves one kick at the can, and that’s this year. They will regress back to missing the playoffs next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said: Big win. Having the same defense as last year is exactly what this team needs to do.(thumbs up) Would the same D be better with the addition of Shaw and reducing the decision making by Baumgartner? I think yes they could. Having said that, is that D good enough at the end of the day? Absolutely not. Improvement is necessary in both personnel and style/structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: Would the same D be better with the addition of Shaw and reducing the decision making by Baumgartner? I think yes they could. Having said that, is that D good enough at the end of the day? Absolutely not. Improvement is necessary in both personnel and style/structure. Personnel wise, they made a change with Shaw on the bench overseeing the defense. Players wise, well, if Edler and Hamonic come back, then we’ve essentially have the same defensive corps from last year. Does that make us better? Probably and most likely looking at another top draft pick in 2022. But it’s supposed to be a deep draft, and scouting could get back to normal by this time next season. I’d love for the Canucks to add Mayfield. Watched the game yesterday, he looks like an absolute stud and beast. Would be a good guy to play beside Hughes, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: Improvement is necessary in both personnel and style/structure. so wouldn't a deal that swapped OEL for Schmidt be a sound move? all other things being equal somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 1 hour ago, shayster007 said: Great post Sid. I don't follow advanced stats, not my jam. What about OEL is dropping off? His offensive production looks steady, which you mentioned is normally the first to drop. Could defensive numbers be more indicative of team play or has OEL lost a step or 2? I don't watch Yotes games past the ones I'm forced to watch when they play the Canucks I may try to come back and post a bit on this with some numbers. Unfortunately (or fortunately), I’m just getting ready to head out for a Father’s Day BBQ with the family, so don’t have the time right now. But I think there are probably a dozen or more recent articles that get into many of the reasons for caution around OEL, and discuss both the long term, and short term, value issues with his contract. But for a quick perusal (as far as where he’s dropping off), I’d check out some of his 5v5 stats (Natural Stat Trick is a good free site) and filter for “relative” (so his rates are compared within his own team) and look at him versus other Arizona D’s. It’s an imperfect tool, but it does allow you to separate out a bit of the “bad team” noise, and get an idea of how he’s been performing within his own team. You’ll probably see a lot of drop off since around 2017-18, on a variety of metrics, but especially stuff like xGF% or xGA (particularly if you pay less attention to the counts/rates than to where he ranks relative to his teammates). Or find an article that charts his GAR, WAR, SPAR, etc (these are overall value measures compared to “replacement” level players) and relates those numbers to what he used to provide a few years back, versus what he’s managed lately. And also looking at what kind of overall stats value/contributions you’d generally expect/want to get out of an $8.25M AAV defenseman, to justify that level of salary commitment. The general takeaway is that, with this current contract, the decline in performance, and what the age curves likely predict for the future, OEL has fairly quickly gone from a Norris caliber player just a handful of season ago and one of the more promising and underrated young Dmen in the league, to today being quite possibly one of the top-15 or top-20 “worst contracts” in the entire NHL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 44 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said: Like edler and hamonic they could resign them both but we end up with the same defense that isn't physical enough. i can see signing hamonic because he steadied quinn's defensive play. eddie is the hardest one to replace, but he has slowed down enough to hurt his over all game. maybe sign him for 2 mil and play him on 3rd pairing and pk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: yeah no one is thinking full pop here, "not at any price" doesn't apply here either. What does concern me a touch is if AZ is willing to retain 2 mil, they are going to want the 9th oa for that for sure. That makes me a little queasy. I'd rather look at something around Reinhart and Risto If thats a thing. I wonder if Pitsburg takes a look, maybe send Letang back the other way? I don't think 9th OA is at all in play if we're even still interested in OEL. Not unless this package gets a hell of a lot bigger anyway. Pretty sure you can not fret over that 45 minutes ago, Alflives said: If we could get Edler and Hamonic to each sign for 3 mil, that’s got to be a win for us, no? Maybe Edler one year term, and Hamonic two year term? Too much for Edler at this point IMO. At least straight up. @Provost's idea to pay him something like $1.5m base, with +/-$1m bonus for games played etc (that can be pushed to next season if need be) to be our 6/7 veteran 'Benn' guy, is far more appropriate IMO. Trade for a ED exposure guy like Mayfield, Foote etc then sign Hamonic or Hakanpaa, Ceci etc, re-up Edler as above. Hughes, Hamonic/Hakanpaa Schmidt, Mayfield/Foote Juolevi, Myers Edler *Rathbone playing big minutes in Abby and first left D call up. Then target a big fish like Parayko, Risto, Lindholm etc next year and eventually ease Woo in to replace Hamonic. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 17 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: so wouldn't a deal that swapped OEL for Schmidt be a sound move? all other things being equal somehow. It would be a lateral move at best player wise. And unless there is a way to shave 2 years off OEL's albatross contract, nullify his nmc, and halve the real dollars owed, there is no actual way to make all other things equal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 39 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: Sooner or later you have to see what you have. If Juolevi can take that opportunity and run with it, its actually him gifting the Canucks something, not the other way around. You have to learn to swim first before throwing OJ in the deep end of the pool. Team couldn't be bothered to free up a few hundred K in cap space to let him play more than 20 something games this past season. You ruin players like that imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aGENT Posted June 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: so wouldn't a deal that swapped OEL for Schmidt be a sound move? all other things being equal somehow. Rather just keep Schmidt. He had a crap year here (like most of the team) but people are seriously under rating his ability... He's not a guy we should be looking to 'dump'. If we can package him for a legit, top pair, RHD... Sure. Otherwise, he's a good player, on a decent contact with, nice, moderate term that can play both sides. No need to move him. 5 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Yeah unless the deal is completely one-sided than no. We need more physical/defensive defenseman for our puck-movers. We also need RD and RH players in general. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: It would be a lateral move at best player wise. And unless there is a way to shave 2 years off OEL's albatross contract, nullify his nmc, and halve the real dollars owed, there is no actual way to make all other things equal. real dollars are Aqulini's problem. I think you'd have to look at this as 4 years of productive player, 2 of a dump deal or buyout. So valuation would have to start there I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, aGENT said: Rather just keep Schmidt. He had a crap year here (like most of the team) but people are seriously under rating his ability... He's not a guy we should be looking to 'dump'. If we can package him for a legit, top pair, RHD... Sure. Otherwise, he's a good player, on a decent contact with, nice, moderate term that can play both sides. No need to move him. fair points. Plus I'd like to hear him whoop in person. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 Frankly not sure I'd trade Schmidt for OEL, even if the other bad contracts were also sent to Arizona. His term is just too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 8 hours ago, Alflives said: That’s a lot of ‘lol’ comments. Do you have a ‘love of lollipops’, and you’re sucking on one while typing? who doesn't love lollipop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: You have to learn to swim first before throwing OJ in the deep end of the pool. Team couldn't be bothered to free up a few hundred K in cap space to let him play more than 20 something games this past season. You ruin players like that imho. Wasn’t that proven to be false? You’re quoting Patrick Johnston or Thomas Drance who were just spitballing and saying that we didn’t have money to dress Juolevi. The issues became about the number of call ups, not the money. Correct me if I’m wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said: Wasn’t that proven to be false? You’re quoting Patrick Johnston or Thomas Drance who were just spitballing and saying that we didn’t have money to dress Juolevi. The issues became about the number of call ups, not the money. Correct me if I’m wrong. I was told on this board that the principal reason was that it was a cap issue & assumed it was true. Edited June 21, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said: Wasn’t that proven to be false? You’re quoting Patrick Johnston or Thomas Drance who were just spitballing and saying that we didn’t have money to dress Juolevi. The issues became about the number of call ups, not the money. Correct me if I’m wrong. IIRC, there was a bunch of issues. There was a few weeks where cap/roster issues kept him out. We were also looking to move Benn, who hence needed to play (and for his part, played well). Then the team got Covid and Juolevi was reportedly one of the hardest hit, losing 15lbs and taking a long time to recover (and hence not playing then either). Edited June 21, 2021 by aGENT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJVD Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: You have to learn to swim first before throwing OJ in the deep end of the pool. Team couldn't be bothered to free up a few hundred K in cap space to let him play more than 20 something games this past season. You ruin players like that imho. Jim said on the radio that OJ lost 10-15 lbs when he got sick. He couldn't get his strength and energy level back to where it needed to be before the end of the season. That's why he wasn't playing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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