Was Virtanen mismanaged here?

[kloubek]

Nope. As others have said he was indeed rushed in his rookie year, but after that the team took a developmental approach. This team showed great patience trying to teach him how to play properly, and Green did what he could to light a fire under him many times to no avail.

 

I wouldn't write him off quite yet. Maybe one day he will commit himself. It just isn't going to happen in a Canucks jersey.

[Tystick]

I think management stepped in when he was running everyone over and told him to stop. 

If that's the case, then yes he was terribly mismanaged.

You need to teach him how to use his tool set effectively.

[Thirston]

19 hours ago, grandmaster said:

Why do we keep getting so many posts about this guy? How many years of ice time do some fans need to see to realize that Jake is a fringe 3rd liner and nothing more? He has had far too many opportunities and it is clearly evident that he is nothing more than what we’ve seen. Please stop 

Exactly, what I keep saying, sick of all this crap about coach holding him back lmfao. So the coach says don’t hit anyone and be lazy lol. He has talent but is not and never will be a “power” forward. 

[Tortorella's Rant]

He's arguably been mismanaged his whole career and he's going to arguably be mismanaged right into a first round bust. Proponents of his management will say he was managed so because that's all he was capable of. 

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Tortorella's Rant

[DrJockitch]

On 9/9/2020 at 3:55 AM, Ghostsof1915 said:

Tram came into camp out of shape. And refused to be demoted to Utica to get into game shape. 

Back to Jake, yes his lack of consistency is frustrating. Yet, he is one of our fastest skaters, and has decent size. Just it's a pity he doesn't use it. 

I think a change of scenery might finally wake him up. It just sucks it has to come to that. 

 

Yes, it has happened once with a lot of players though not as consistently as it has with Jake.  My point was that Jake did it twice in one season.

Some where asking why it is a problem having a middle six winger that can score 15-20 goals.  There is no problem, that is great if they bring enough of the other aspects of the game.  In these playoffs his acceleration looked terrible, he often wasn't engaged and he wasn't using his speed to get in on the opponents D.

There was one games when he played with Bo, he went to the net and provided net front presence, played a simpler game and deferred more to his line mates.  I thought he looked really good that game but once he was put back down the lineup, disinterested Jake re-appeared.

During the season he also played quite well with Gaudette, but I just don't think that Green trusted them enough together in the playoffs so he was mostly with Beagle.

It is clear that in the flat cap for the next few seasons that clearing cap space is going to be very expensive.  Jake may not even have the value to move an Erikkson or Sutter in which case it is challenging to see what would be good value would be.

[Ghostsof1915]

6 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Yes, it has happened once with a lot of players though not as consistently as it has with Jake.  My point was that Jake did it twice in one season.

Some where asking why it is a problem having a middle six winger that can score 15-20 goals.  There is no problem, that is great if they bring enough of the other aspects of the game.  In these playoffs his acceleration looked terrible, he often wasn't engaged and he wasn't using his speed to get in on the opponents D.

There was one games when he played with Bo, he went to the net and provided net front presence, played a simpler game and deferred more to his line mates.  I thought he looked really good that game but once he was put back down the lineup, disinterested Jake re-appeared.

During the season he also played quite well with Gaudette, but I just don't think that Green trusted them enough together in the playoffs so he was mostly with Beagle.

It is clear that in the flat cap for the next few seasons that clearing cap space is going to be very expensive.  Jake may not even have the value to move an Erikkson or Sutter in which case it is challenging to see what would be good value would be.

Well my point is if people cut Jake the slack that Tram seems to get by his fans, these boards would be a lot quieter. I agree that Jake let himself down. 

[mikeyman109]

On 9/9/2020 at 10:56 AM, Lazurus said:

Mismanagement or misconception?

 

Labelled a POWER forward, the label has expectations attached to it, expectations that are hard to meet.

Where as a big player that is powerful is different.

What is the difference between Horvat and Jake?, Okay a few years and he was never expected to be a big hitter, they concentrated on him to be a better center and given some of the best players to play with.

 

Jake was always, "he is not hitting enough", If some management toddy said boo, media said boo then fans believe boo too.

There are off ice issues, nothing to the Kassian level but attitude.

 

Let's put it this way, he is a media distraction for you. What did Pearson do in the playoffs? Paid twice as much, what? There is a list of names of guaranteed contract players that are well below Jake's level of play. Disappear.

 

Jake got sandwiched between too many bad guaranteed contracts, but not a whisper about how much those bad contracts or over paid contracts affected not just the team but one player in particular.

 

Misconception from the beginning, labelled a power forward instead of just a good player that hit.

Totally disagree, and I have been a "power forwards take longer to develop" guy.

Jake is exactly what a power forward could and should be. A player that uses his size to his advantage. In Junior he had the advantage of playing against boys who had not developed. He used his size and skating ability to take advantage of what he was given. The media labeling him had very little to do with Jake's issues. Its the game he played.

Is there a sense that Jake has not fulfilled his promise. Absolutely!! A player that has his skating ability and a shot many would like to see used more who doesn't play with heart is disappointing. It has nothing to do with deployment. It has nothing to do with being on the 4th or 3rd lines. Both Burrows and Kesler started on third and fourth lines. Their heart and work ethic made them better players and they moved up the lineup because of it.  Many here have said if we could just transplant Motte's Heart into Jake's body we would have a helluva player. They are right.

Contracts have nothing to do with a player being unprepared for training camp or a season. That rests solely on the player. comparing him to Pearson is a wasted argument. I agree with you Pearson did disappear in the playoffs and had a horrible series against the Knights. If you want to discuss his game lets do that but two different players with two different skill sets and two different paths to be where they are at right now. I don't recall any reports of Pearson partying, drinking at the bar when he should have been preparing for the season or avoiding the COVID virus. Maturity is Jake's issue. It doesn't matter his age in years but his age in becoming a man

The claim Jake isnt hitting enough is simply due to the fact he hasnt been doing enough to maintain a spot on this roster. There are others coming that will supplant him. MacEwan should be getting his chance now. Podkolzin is coming. Hoglander and Lind also.

Jake may still develop further into a better NHL player. It wont be in Vancouver. He hasn't shown enough to take the next step. He hasn't shown enough to implant himself as a regular top 6 guy. He has even been used on the second unit power play. so i don't think we can say he hasn't been given the chance. Plenty of young players do not develop into what was expected of them. Some of them its how they were managed. Some of them its in their head. Some its in their heart. Jake its head and heart. He has not been mismanaged. He was challenged and didnt respond.

[Fred65]

On 9/9/2020 at 3:56 PM, Lazurus said:

How do you define "more consistent"?

 

 

Consistency is the ability to read and react at the right moment and time and work diligently at it. Most watch the game on TV and the TV camera follows the puck. I attend the games and Virtanen is often found to be lacking with the back check. He's lazy or dumb make your choice, Green try's to be more political and calls it consistency.  I'd bench a PeeWee for that lack of effort. He just doesn't get it. The odd flash and that's his night. Most nights Jake doesn't need a shower, quicker to get off to the clubs in town. For his sake I hope he does get traded it may be the shock to reignite his career. I was surprised Benning actually used the words he did ..... that's frustration on Benning's part

[DrJockitch]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Well my point is if people cut Jake the slack that Tram seems to get by his fans, these boards would be a lot quieter. I agree that Jake let himself down. 

I have been very critical of Trams lack of professionalism. 
not just showing up fat but being undisciplined in dealing with the media. 
That being said you are allowed to make mistakes and show that you can learn and grow. Tryamkin ran away so we don’t know if he has matured and grown as a professional. We can demonstrate that year after year Jake has not. 

[86Viking]

Question I have, is back a few years Jake got put on a line with Bo and Sven and they looked good together, why didn't that become a thing? Jake is the only person that can turn it around but I would have liked to see him get a 15-20 game stretch of playing top 6 minutes with the same 2 guys and I would have tried him as the net front presence on PP1 and moved someone else down to anchor the 2nd unit.

 

Jake has never been able to be consistent tho...and that has been his downfall. Going away from being a physical player and not giving a Motte like effort every game has gotten him to where he is. I believe a fresh start for him on a new team would be Best for his NHL career, had hopes he would put it all together

[canuckleheads fan]

Jake has been given every chance to succeed. Ultimately it's on the player to mature into a professional, to take training seriously, to work hard away from the puck, to find ways to contribute. Jake was gifted with incredible talent, a big body, fantastic speed, and a wicked shot; he was also cursed with a ten-cent head. The knock on him as a draft year player was his hockey sense, but it's more than that, he lacks common sense. Someday he might mature into a solid third-liner who can play up the lineup, but I'm in favor of throwing him in as a sweetener as part of a cap-dump.

[canuckleheads fan]

14 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

Question I have, is back a few years Jake got put on a line with Bo and Sven and they looked good together, why didn't that become a thing? Jake is the only person that can turn it around but I would have liked to see him get a 15-20 game stretch of playing top 6 minutes with the same 2 guys and I would have tried him as the net front presence on PP1 and moved someone else down to anchor the 2nd unit.

 

Jake has never been able to be consistent tho...and that has been his downfall. Going away from being a physical player and not giving a Motte like effort every game has gotten him to where he is. I believe a fresh start for him on a new team would be Best for his NHL career, had hopes he would put it all together

Top six minutes are earned through hard work. Yes, Jake looked good with Sven and Bo for a couple of games, then he started taking shifts off, and they would get scored on. Jake has never realized that getting to the top isn't the hard part, it actually takes more work to stay on top.

[Wanless]

On 9/8/2020 at 3:21 PM, Odd. said:

It may have been a pipe dream, but I was expecting Virtanen to play like his 2015-2016 physical self in these playoffs, back when he would hit anything that moved every chance he got and always took the puck to the net. All he does now is that dump and chase and go off for a quick shift, running around not accomplishing much. 

 

I always get this feeling that Virtanen was mismanaged throughout his time here. Whether it be him starting a year earlier before he was really ready, those 2 years in Utica, and/or being used as a 4th line depth player. I feel like his development has stifled. I get this feeling he's being held back, whether it be the result of Green and his coaching system, or just not being a fit entirely with the makeup of this team.

 

I've always wonder and will continue to wonder with what seems to be Virtanen's final days in Van, what if Virtanen played in a system like the  Vegas Knights, perhaps Boston, the Caps or the Blues. Physical, north-south style teams that play a heavy game and seem to play without any limits. I feel like Virtanen would strive in those types of environments, or maybe it's just a load of BS. 

 

It's hard not to root for the guy, he's got a very rare blend of speed and size. Again has the toolbox, just needs someone to help him use it correctly. Unfortunately, he won't learn it here.

After these playoffs it has become extremely clear to me that the coaching system is not good enough for the NHL.

 

The fact that they made it to the second round was because of brilliant performances from Petey Miller Horvat Markstrom and Hughes, with steady Eddy showing up. This team was not coached well as shown by the shot differentials the lack of scoring for secondary and depth players.

 

What I see in the players who aren't oozing offensive skills (Virtanen, Beagle, Motte, Sutter, Pearson) is a very repressed game. Just chipping it out, don't take the body play the stick and be reactionary. These are the players that should be the aggressive defenders, forcing the opposition to make moves when it isn't the best time, drive the puck to the net hard and create chaos and basically play to interfere with the opposition's systems.

 

Instead they got hemmed in reacting to passing plays and shots.

 

This is on coaching and the system.

 

I'll say it again and again, but the top players make the coaching staff look better than they are. Great teams have a coaching staff that make the players look better.

 

I've also always used the bottom 6 production and overall game as a measuring stick of a good coach as they rely on coaching more and are expected to follow coaching more strictly.

 

So yes Jake has been mishandled and I'm afraid that once he plays on a team like Carolina Boston Vegas NYI he's going to be an Alex Tuch.

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

Was gifted PP time this playoffs to prove something, what I don’t know. 

 

This place cracks me up. 
 

I could hear the loud snap of the overly protective mother-fan-like posters on here as the collective’s nipple snapped back from finally weening him off their protection with the realization that it’s time to take him off the nipple and be objective about his play and value to the team. 
 

Welcome to the hate, haters, where feelz aren't an argument or metric for hockey discussion. 
 

[JM_]

16 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Was gifted PP time this playoffs to prove something, what I don’t know. 

 

This place cracks me up. 
 

I could hear the loud snap of the overly protective mother-fan-like posters on here as the collective’s nipple snapped back from finally weening him off their protection with the realization that it’s time to take him off the nipple and be objective about his play and value to the team. 
 

Welcome to the hate, haters, where feelz aren't an argument or metric for hockey discussion. 
 

"I expected more" is a pretty objective assessment. 

[oldnews]

[-DLC-]

Why only Jake though?  Why wouldn't coaching be an issue beyond that one guy?   That suggests, to me, that it's more about that one guy.

 

Love Jake, am ok with whatever happens because the coach sees the off ice stuff that we don't.  He has information that he bases his decisions on.

 

There are no passengers if this team is going to keep progressing...each and every roster spot is important.

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Why only Jake though?  Why wouldn't coaching be an issue beyond that one guy?   That suggests, to me, that it's more about that one guy.

 

Love Jake, am ok with whatever happens because the coach sees the off ice stuff that we don't.  He has information that he bases his decisions on.

 

There are no passengers if this team is going to keep progressing...each and every roster spot is important.

 

This is the crux of it IMO. It's about the culture of the club. Virtanen has all the tools and has even continued to improve over his time here. But it's not enough.

 

If, like all the other players, you're not giving 110%, not committed to being the best you can be, not committed to work towards getting every last but of your ability out there on the ice for yourself andyour team mates... your not 'Canuck' material. You will be moved for players who 'want it' more. Toolsy or otherwise.

[Moose Nuckle]

The team spent 90% of the series in their own zone. IT'S JAKE'S FAULT!

[86Viking]

3 hours ago, canuckleheads fan said:

Top six minutes are earned through hard work. 

Are they...#21 was gifted those minutes and produced next to no offense...then we get 1 player back and boom he goes from 2nd line to press box where he belongs