[Signing] Canucks re-sign Jake Virtanen

[Mackcanuck]

Jake is back after posting - 18 goals,18 assists,150 shots and 102 hits in 69 games last year

Now I want him to go get that open top 6 spot and 2nd unit PP and keep it!  

Edited October 23, 2020 by Mackcanuck

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

It really depends on the game plan that Jim is planning on or going to follow. For all we know they could be saying internally that this year could be a wash and we're not throwing away any assets to chase it down. As a fan, this is one of the few situations where I say indifference or mediocrity would be acceptable in order to prepare for the future.

Yep.   Think of it like a turbo in a car,  you hit the gas and there is a delay - but then it boosts speed exponentially.   For our future both a down year and not sending away what’s left of our pool chasing overpaid legacy deal blue chip free agents could and should do wonders for our team compared to the alternative (shedding cap picks and prospects just to save a few million and make maybe two upgrades now, which quite literally could turn into handcuffs anyways)..... 

 

IF he trades LE and buyouts out say Sutter.   Would be a complete waste.   Reminds me a little of when Luongo first came in, we made the playoffs and had a really great series against Dallas/Turco.   The following one we missed.   After that we had the best stretch of hockey this franchise has ever seen in the regular seasons, and a trip to the final.     If that’s the goal then wait it out.   We could still make the playoffs and maybe do some damage - and at least give the core some more playoff games - OR we don’t - BUT get a lottery ticket which would really help when Horvat and Miller are done cap wise - and we won’t have dipped into next years funds early and be in cap trouble then (which buying out Sutter would do, not to mention AG isn’t ready and Sutter is fine come playoff time).....

 

As of right now Roussel is the only expendable guy IMO.  We need two of Beagle and LE to dangle at the ED...if he could trade him without jeopardizing anything and use that money to find a cheap D on a two year contract to cover our D ED minimum requirements I’d give JB an A+ for this off season.     He was bold letting all three walk and obviously had his threshold with both Tanev (4x2) and JM (?  3 years?). ... both those deals in Calgary could for sure become handcuffs, JM 6x6 NMC especially.  
 

Schmidt and the rest back signed at reasonable or even team friendly deals...for that he gets an A- as is.    He’s doing exactly what I hope he’d do, and I’m both surprised at the balls and that he wasn’t conservative.   Risks have paid off.   Time as fans to be patient.  I’m not looking for mediocre middle of the pack from this core, but a cup.  And these are the sorts of things that get you there.  Patience. 

[Wilbur]

1 hour ago, Masontron said:

There was something quite odd with that Toffoli situation,  gave up considerable assets to acquire him, seemed like a perfect fit, and he took a very reasonable deal in Montreal.

 

Maybe didn't fit the room?... I dunno, but they moved away from him pretty quick 

I'm thinking they didn't want to go too far over the cap and end up in a situation like Vegas where you have to give away someone in a trade.  And in the Canucks particular situation that person probably would've been Boeser or Miller (as I don't think a team would've taken Pearson or Myers in a situation like this).

[canucklehead44]

1 hour ago, Masontron said:

There was something quite odd with that Toffoli situation,  gave up considerable assets to acquire him, seemed like a perfect fit, and he took a very reasonable deal in Montreal.

 

Maybe didn't fit the room?... I dunno, but they moved away from him pretty quick 

Real estate has been a funny sector. Most investment trusts got hit hard and haven't recovered but residential real estate is booming.

The Aquas likely got hit hard and had to tighten their belts on spending. This doesn't mean we won't spend to the cap, but in order to fit Toffoli in we would have likely had to trade guys with 50% retained in order to clear some cap space which he wasn't willing to do. Also there was a limit on only offering 2 year deals for some reason (one that I wish we had up until this year). 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, canucklehead44 said:

Real estate has been a funny sector. Most investment trusts got hit hard and haven't recovered but residential real estate is booming.

The Aquas likely got hit hard and had to tighten their belts on spending. This doesn't mean we won't spend to the cap, but in order to fit Toffoli in we would have likely had to trade guys with 50% retained in order to clear some cap space which he wasn't willing to do. Also there was a limit on only offering 2 year deals for some reason (one that I wish we had up until this year). 

Retaining is debt this club doesn’t need either.   The plan to me is pretty obvious - make sure there is enough for next season.   Edler and Pearson also need to be replaced, only Bear provides extra funds, and Sutter also takes a roster spot.   Looks like a lot of money until you factor that all in - and for sure 100% there will be more deals available next of season for teams that plan for it (which I’m extremely hopeful that’s what’s occurring now)....LE isn’t going anywhere - not with 4 million owed his last year - and neither is the Luongo penalty.    That money will come in awful handy to make this team a contender IF it’s not wasted early just to get modestly better.   TT served his purpose, JB and any GM would do it again every time if it meant 17 playoff games.   

[Gawdzukes]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yep.   Think of it like a turbo in a car,  you hit the gas and there is a delay - but then it boosts speed exponentially.   For our future both a down year and not sending away what’s left of our pool chasing overpaid legacy deal blue chip free agents could and should do wonders for our team compared to the alternative (shedding cap picks and prospects just to save a few million and make maybe two upgrades now, which quite literally could turn into handcuffs anyways)..... 

 

IF he trades LE and buyouts out say Sutter.   Would be a complete waste.   Reminds me a little of when Luongo first came in, we made the playoffs and had a really great series against Dallas/Turco.   The following one we missed.   After that we had the best stretch of hockey this franchise has ever seen in the regular seasons, and a trip to the final.     If that’s the goal then wait it out.   We could still make the playoffs and maybe do some damage - and at least give the core some more playoff games - OR we don’t - BUT get a lottery ticket which would really help when Horvat and Miller are done cap wise - and we won’t have dipped into next years funds early and be in cap trouble then (which buying out Sutter would do, not to mention AG isn’t ready and Sutter is fine come playoff time).....

 

As of right now Roussel is the only expendable guy IMO.  We need two of Beagle and LE to dangle at the ED...if he could trade him without jeopardizing anything and use that money to find a cheap D on a two year contract to cover our D ED minimum requirements I’d give JB an A+ for this off season.     He was bold letting all three walk and obviously had his threshold with both Tanev (4x2) and JM (?  3 years?). ... both those deals in Calgary could for sure become handcuffs, JM 6x6 NMC especially.  
 

Schmidt and the rest back signed at reasonable or even team friendly deals...for that he gets an A- as is.    He’s doing exactly what I hope he’d do, and I’m both surprised at the balls and that he wasn’t conservative.   Risks have paid off.   Time as fans to be patient.  I’m not looking for mediocre middle of the pack from this core, but a cup.  And these are the sorts of things that get you there.  Patience. 

Agreed.

 

And what if the season blows up, or they end up never opening the borders. What happens to those one or two year deals, which we trade hypothetically trade futures for? They are just gone, and we get get absolutely nothing in return, or do you get that player the following year, but we'll have Hoglander or Podkolzin by then?

[DrJockitch]

It is a funny year for sure.

May be the year to give up draft picks to fix issues as scouting is going to be severely affected.  

How do you even scout North America ATM?

There are only a few teams left with significant cap, some of whom have internal caps.

I imagine the Tampa situation is holding everyone up.  Why take LE and a pick when you may be able to get a quality roster forward and D for essentially nothing or even with an added pick from Tampa.  I imagine Yzerman is holding Tampa's feet over the fire atm.

 

[Quinn12]

Jakey boys backkk! 
 

this is good term and price why is everyone so upset? Dude is going to have a breakout year.... he’s improved every year and hasn’t been as good as he should of been but this year 25+ goals, book it.

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

It really depends on the game plan that Jim is planning on or going to follow. For all we know they could be saying internally that this year could be a wash and we're not throwing away any assets to chase it down. As a fan, this is one of the few situations where I say indifference or mediocrity would be acceptable in order to prepare for the future.

Definitely. It's not exactly a normal situation right now. The one knock I would have on Benning would be that I feel he could have played things a little safer this offseason, but we're still have a somewhat equal (if not better than due to player development and Schmidt being overall better than Tanev) team compared with how we started last season so I think we're fine. Hopefully it's something Benning learns from and becomes a better GM for it.

[spur1]

Nice to have Jake back in the fold. 

[86Viking]

10 hours ago, st33 said:

In Kelowna, great.

 

So he'll have Covid in about a week

right...because you know the few cases per day we have here trumps the couple hundred down their...

[Provost]

I am still thinking we pick up one of the remaining “project” forwards available or re-sign Leivo.

 

The organization didn’t have faith in Jake being a top 6 player at the deadline when they gave up futures to backfill an injured Boeser.  They didn’t have faith in him after that when he was on the 4th line while Eriksson was playing on the 2nd line.  They didn’t have faith in him when he was benched during the playoffs.

 

Benning said publicly that he wanted more out of Jake in the playoffs.

 

Nothing has indicated that they are comfortable with him in the top 6, so it is a “last resort” option if they can’t find a better option.

 

Every line scored more without him than with him last season and they gave up more with him than without.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Provost

[EternalCanuckFan]

Given Gaudette's own comments, I wonder if management might be expecting a competition between Jake and Gaudette for one of the top-6 RW spots.

 

Gaudette's ability to play C is, IMHO, a better indicator of his longer term viability with the Canucks, but if he ends up getting a shot at RW with either Petey or Bo and produces (while Jake does not), then I wonder if that also will alter plans with Jake.  There were proposals for trading Jake for someone like Jack Roslovic which might be intriguing since if Gaudette finds a home at RW, then someone like Roslovic (who plays C and RW) could be a decent acquisition.  I'm not saying I want to see Jake traded, just that he's probably going to be under even greater scrutiny this year.

 

Per Jake's interview yesterday, I really do hope for his sake and for the Canucks' sake that his training with Myers will help put him in the best mental and physical state to hit the ground running from the start of training camp onward.  It was great to see Jake improve this season and start putting together stretches of play at least closer to the level that we have all wanted to see him get to.  The playoffs were quite disappointing yes, but at the very least he had his moments, even if overall his play left so much to be desired (especially after his decent regular season).  If Jake can play at the level he showed he can from the start of training camp, then we might see a great year for Jake and that will likely mean great things for the Canucks.

[JM_]

15 hours ago, Western Red said:

Hey Jimmy, where's the bit about Virt and Myers?

"I work out with Tyler Myers every morning at his house, he has a gym," he said. "Mysie's a different animal in the gym. He trains really hard. I head over every morning and from the training to the eating habits and meal plans and the whole thing, we're both doing it together, which is pretty unreal. It's nice to have a teammate doing it with me."

The two have evidently been getting closer over the offseason, with Myers showing Virtanenaround his adopted hometown — Myers played with the Kelowna Rockets in the WHL — and practically treating him like part of the family.

"He's a busy man, he's got his son and his wife and he's doing a lot of stuff. He kind of treats me like his son, which is pretty cool too," said Virtanen. "I go over there, post-workout we'll have smoothies, hang out for a bit, we'll go skate together, and then the rest of the day we just hang out, so it's good."

 

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/canucks-avoid-arbitration-re-sign-jake-virtanen-to-two-year-contract-2814293

[Provost]

6 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

Given Gaudette's own comments, I wonder if management might be expecting a competition between Jake and Gaudette for one of the top-6 RW spots.

 

Gaudette's ability to play C is, IMHO, a better indicator of his longer term viability with the Canucks, but if he ends up getting a shot at RW with either Petey or Bo and produces (while Jake does not), then I wonder if that also will alter plans with Jake.

Gaudette is more valuable if he can be a centre rather than wing, but I definitely see this happening sometime during the season.

 

If we have Sutter and Beagle in the lineup, we have three bottom six centres... so it is a choice of playing one of them on the wing.

 

It could easily be a 3rd line of Roussel-Sutter-Virtanen (with Gaudette in the top 6), as it could be Roussel-Gaudette-Sutter (with Virtanen in the top 6).  I would be surprised if we don’t see both happening in the season and probably even in the same game.

[Devron]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

I’m praying and crossing my fingers it won’t come to that.   The only way I’d be ok with it is if both QHs and EPs deals are done early, great team friendly ones at that and enough left over to deal properly with Pearson and Edlers contracts/replacements.   Serious doubts we will. Rather play with a shortened bench and no more adds then go there.    It’s possible we could get one more very good add by doing the exact same thing we did this off-season.   By letting both Pearson and Edler walk,  have both QHs and EPs deals done before UFA season and the draft, and weaponize again with a cap strapped team.   Points deal is up...TB will continue to be on the hook as will others. 

Exactly. We need to be patient over the next 2 years and clean up the mess. Buyouts are a quick fix that only help the now and don’t help the next year or year after. I’m liking how JB has been patient this off-season. We have 2 years to really clean-up the cap situation then we can look at adding significantly again. This also gives us 2 years to see where some of our prospects are at 

[hlinkas wrister]

42 minutes ago, Provost said:

I am still thinking we pick up one of the remaining “project” forwards available or re-sign Leivo.

 

The organization didn’t have faith in Jake being a top 6 player at the deadline when they gave up futures to backfill an injured Boeser.  They didn’t have faith in him after that when he was on the 4th line while Eriksson was playing on the 2nd line.  They didn’t have faith in him when he was benched during the playoffs.

 

Benning said publicly that he wanted more out of Jake in the playoffs.

 

Nothing has indicated that they are comfortable with him in the top 6, so it is a “last resort” option if they can’t find a better option.

 

Every line scored more without him than with him last season and they gave up more with him than without.

 

 

Where are these stats from? I don't disagree that Jake probably isn't the answer to our top six but I think this is using uncontextualized stats to prove your point. I can just as easily go to line mate stats on icetistics: https://icetistics.com/lineStats/linemateRanksOffense/ you can see that 5v5 away stats show our highest ranked line is the lotto line (10th in the league) followed by the Guads/Jake/Roussel line (94th, not great but better than Bo/Pearson/Loui at 101 and Beagle's line at 104). Home stats again has the lotto line tops for the Canucks at 12th, followed by Bo/Pearson/Loui at 24th and then Elias/JT/Jake at 41 (higher than Bo/Leivo/Pearson at 50th and higher than Elias/JT/toffoli at an almost identical amount of ice time). Looking at the offensive stats for entire lines (much more fair imo) there's a case to be made that Jake is as deserving as anyone of playing in our top 6, and maybe there's a reason we didn't blow up our roster to sign Toffoli (take that last bit with a grain of salt considering the small sample size). 

[Provost]

2 minutes ago, hlinkas wrister said:

Where are these stats from? I don't disagree that Jake probably isn't the answer to our top six but I think this is using uncontextualized stats to prove your point. I can just as easily go to line mate stats on icetistics: https://icetistics.com/lineStats/linemateRanksOffense/ you can see that 5v5 away stats show our highest ranked line is the lotto line (10th in the league) followed by the Guads/Jake/Roussel line (94th, not great but better than Bo/Pearson/Loui at 101 and Beagle's line at 104). Home stats again has the lotto line tops for the Canucks at 12th, followed by Bo/Pearson/Loui at 24th and then Elias/JT/Jake at 41 (higher than Bo/Leivo/Pearson at 50th and higher than Elias/JT/toffoli at an almost identical amount of ice time). Looking at the offensive stats for entire lines (much more fair imo) there's a case to be made that Jake is as deserving as anyone of playing in our top 6, and maybe there's a reason we didn't blow up our roster to sign Toffoli (take that last bit with a grain of salt considering the small sample size). 

They are from an Athletic story which is behind a paywall.  They just compare how much of Virtanen’s offence is negated by how much they give up defensively with him on the ice and the stat I linked is how offensively productive our centres were with and without Jake 5 on 5.  We had Toffoli, Boeser, and Leivo for various parts of last season (though not at the same time) and they did play on various lines, so those would largely have been the alternatives.

 

It doesn’t mean Jake isn’t the best “remaining” option, it just means that you have to contextualize it.  It helps show who is driving a line compared with just line combos which can’t tease out individual contribution.

[IBatch]

37 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Exactly. We need to be patient over the next 2 years and clean up the mess. Buyouts are a quick fix that only help the now and don’t help the next year or year after. I’m liking how JB has been patient this off-season. We have 2 years to really clean-up the cap situation then we can look at adding significantly again. This also gives us 2 years to see where some of our prospects are at 

It’s sure nice seeing this theme with others fans in the CDC.  I get the “damn if only we didn’t have LE, Luongo and Covid screwing with our cap” etc, and appreciate that if things were different we could have a window with EP and QHs on their ELCs,  thing is CHI was the only team to manage a cup that way WITHOUT a ton of help from parts of the previous core.   CAR did it but had a lot of veterans that could play, ANA did it but it wasn’t the new kids carrying the mail, it was the old core absolutely.... it’s extremely difficult to do much.  EDM, CAR and VAN are the only teams to win a round since the cap came in other then them...and we won the most games.   And have one more crack it.   IF Demko plays the way he did we could even win a cup yet.   Imagine that.  This season.   But TG isn’t a “real NHL coach” and JB should be fired.   Ha ha.   We are lucky to have both IMO.

Edited October 23, 2020 by IBatch

[hlinkas wrister]

1 minute ago, Provost said:

They are from an Athletic story which is behind a paywall.  They just compare how much of Virtanen’s offence is negated by how much they give up defensively with him on the ice and the stat I linked is how offensively productive our centres were with and without Jake 5 on 5.  We had Toffoli, Boeser, and Leivo for various parts of last season (though not at the same time) and they did play on various lines, so those would largely have been the alternatives.

 

It doesn’t mean Jake isn’t the best “remaining” option, it just means that you have to contextualize it.  It helps show who is driving a line compared with just line combos which can’t tease out individual contribution.

Gotcha, I’ve read that article as well but there’s a massive hole in that argument. With 5 other guys on the ice it’s impossible to attribute any players stat differentials solely to one other skater. I do agree with that article that Jake isn’t as good defensively as some like to claim though.