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1 minute ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Sadly, there are people who really do believe that they/their kids don't need an education - and they probably have a very large profile overlap with anti-vaxxers.  :picard:

My nearby neighbours are a 'school of unlearning'. I haven't looked into it too much so forgive any ignorance. 

 

Thing is, these people seem pretty 'unlearned' in my brief convos with them. Their property is a smattering of buildings that for sure didn't get the proper building permits. The idea that they are cultivating the minds of our youths is a bit concerning. 

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Just now, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Have they somehow crept into your subconscious?  :bigblush:

 

Just kidding.  That's awful that you have to deal with the intentionally ignorant.  Knowing that my neighbours were such would probably drive me crazy.

From what I gather it's a system from India based on outside the box thinking as it applies to business, again...haven't dove in too deep but I feel these neighbours are just being hippies that think they know, to not know....you know?

 

Either way, not good for kids IMO. 

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4 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Sadly, there are people who really do believe that they/their kids don't need an education - and they probably have a very large profile overlap with anti-vaxxers.  :picard:

 

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30 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

Both of my siblings got Moderna after AZ.  No issues. They both said first shot AZ had a bit more reaction than the second Moderna.  

 

Wish I could say the same; still happy about getting a mixed batch of shots though.

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25 minutes ago, gurn said:

Wish I could say the same; still happy about getting a mixed batch of shots though.

From the UK Com-CoV trial, statiscally the mixed recipients reported more reactions after the mRNA second dose.  But if you felt it, then you definitely didn't get a placebo. 

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23 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

From the UK Com-CoV trial, statiscally the mixed recipients reported more reactions after the mRNA second dose.  But if you felt it, then you definitely didn't get a placebo. 

I'm of the view that if I get side effects from the vaccine, I'd probably have a worse than normal reaction to the virus itself.

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TBH, I was a bit concerned about the fact that I had zero reaction to either my first or second shots. (both Pfizer)

 

My second shot was administered by my GP and he didn't think it was an issue. He also said that after the 2 weeks were up, I would be at about 90%....

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2 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

TBH, I was a bit concerned about the fact that I had zero reaction to either my first or second shots. (both Pfizer)

 

My second shot was administered by my GP and he didn't think it was an issue. He also said that after the 2 weeks were up, I would be at about 90%....

You should be fine if you don't have underlying conditions or on medications that cause immunosuppression.  I wouldn't worry about the mild or minimal reactogenicity symptoms that you had.  There isn't a direct correlation with adaptive immunity that you want from the vaccine. The immediate side effects are mostly from the innate immunity, which reacts in mins and hrs. 

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41541-019-0132-6

 

Summary
It is a common belief that an injection-site reaction to a vaccine is a predictive sign of a desirable vaccine response (‘no pain, no gain’ concept). However limited data either support or disprove this concept. In the hepatitis B study comparing different adjuvant, the magnitude of inflammatory responses paralleled the magnitude of adaptive immune responses and the overall incidence of reactogenicity symptoms. The more potent adjuvants (AS01 and AS03) were capable of activating an early IFN-signalling pathway, which was confirmed in the blood of subjects the day after receiving H1N1/AS03. However, despite parallel associations of reactogenicity and adaptive responses with early innate responses, no predictive association was demonstrated between reactogenicity and the adaptive response, which suggests that the ‘no pain, no gain’ concept may not be valid, at least at the individual level.

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On 6/29/2021 at 8:05 AM, gurn said:

Was waiting for these numbers.

9 people that have been fully vaccinated have passed.

Video:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/elections/9-people-have-died-from-covid-19-despite-having-received-a-second-dose/vi-AALyuax

 

 

 

About 0.2% of double dosers have passed away from covid

About 2.0% for single dosers have passed from covid.

 

This link, https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/a6f23959a8b14bfa989e3cda29297ded, when you divide deaths by positives shows about

1.18 % over all rate of mortality.-Vaccinations not accounted for.

 

anybody with some math skills able to break this down?

Repost, as I'm still not able to make sense of this.

This seems to say the first shot was not really any better than no shot; which is completely different than what I'd read previously read.

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7 minutes ago, gurn said:

Repost, as I'm still not able to make sense of this.

This seems to say the first shot was not really any better than no shot; which is completely different than what I'd read previously read.

I'd like to see the sample sizes.

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https://nyti.ms/3hqN4RJ

 

Opinion | Human Behavior During the Pandemic Is More Important Than Any Covid Variant

June 27, 2021

 

By Amy B. Rosenfeld and Vincent R. Racaniello

 

Dr. Rosenfeld and Dr. Racaniello are virology professors at Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons.

 

News headlines and health experts on social media are sounding the alarm over another variant of the coronavirus, this time Delta, claiming it is much more contagious and perhaps more lethal than any other variant seen so far. It’s easy to understand why: New variants of the virus continue to emerge, and cases are rising in many countries. But whether new variants pose a unique or substantial risk is still unknown, and as virologists, we are concerned that misunderstanding variants and the risk they pose can cause confusion and panic.

 

As the coronavirus spread globally, its genome changed — mutated — as expected for any virus. These mutations may affect the virus’s “fitness,” its ability to reproduce and spread. Some mutations weaken a virus, some have no measurable effect, and some make it stronger.

 

As a virus becomes more fit, it will outcompete less fit viruses — and Delta is not the first variant that has beat its predecessors and competitors in certain areas. There’s the Alpha variant that first became dominant in Britain, and the Gamma variant that first became dominant in Brazil. Such changes are not unique to the coronavirus. Increased viral fitness happens during every flu season and is why some flu variants may circulate more widely than others.

 

Just because a variant displaces another does not necessarily mean it is more infectious or more deadly to the people who become infected with it. As has been true for the past year and a half, human behavior is far more important in shaping the course of the pandemic than any variant.

 

There are many ways that a virus can mutate to increase its fitness. While there’s been much focus on changes in the virus’s spike proteins, which allow the coronavirus to invade cells, a virus can also sustain changes in other proteins. Such changes can allow the virus to replicate more easily or evade the immune system, for example. They may even allow the virus to persist longer in nasal passages.

 

Determining what impact a given mutation has requires substantial laboratory research. Sometimes, early conclusions about a particular mutation can be incorrect. When the first variant of note, D614G, emerged last winter, some scientists believed changes to the virus’s spike protein made the virus more contagious. But subsequent research showed that was not the case. Even so, each time a new change in the spike protein is identified, many experts presume the variant is more virulent and “of concern.” But whether any variant is biologically more transmissible or causes more severe illness has not been rigorously tested.

 

Right now, conclusions about variant transmissibility are based largely on how widespread the variant is. A variant might be deemed more contagious because it makes up a higher proportion of new infections. Delta is now the most common variant in India and Britain, accounting for more than 90 percent of new cases, and over 20 percent of new infections in the United States. Not all virologists, including us, agree that measurements like this are sufficient to declare a variant more transmissible or more contagious. What’s clear is Delta may be the fitter and dominant variant for now.

 

To determine increased transmissibility, the ability of the virus to be passed on from one person to another, requires more than measuring infection rates. It may require experiments in people, which are unethical to conduct.

 

Changes in people’s activities contribute to the rise of infections — such as travel, failure to mask and to adhere to physical distancing policies, and most important right now, insufficient vaccination — and these are often not considered in public discussion of variants.

 

The huge infection numbers in India, Nigeria and other places are not necessarily because of a particular variant, but in large part because of breached containment measures and crowded populations with poor public health infrastructures. If people are in situations in which they can be infected with the coronavirus, it’s highly likely they will be infected with the fittest variant in the area. Right now, in many places, that’s Delta.

 

What’s important to understand is that people infected with the variants do not necessarily develop more severe disease or die more frequently from the coronavirus, and it is essential to get vaccinated.

 

The coronavirus vaccines that have been developed are very effective in preventing severe disease and death caused by all variants, including Delta. Vaccines might not always prevent infections, but they make a substantial impact in reducing virus spread and risk for serious health problems. People who are unvaccinated are at a great risk for infection and harm from any variant of the coronavirus.

 

During a pandemic, a time of unknowns, people want immediate answers to the question, what does this mutation mean? Providing the correct answers may require years of research. For now, there’s little evidence that the virus is on an endless trajectory of increased transmission and virulence. Today’s vaccines can still end this pandemic.

 

Amy B. Rosenfeld and Vincent R. Racaniello are virologists in the Department of Microbiology and Immunology at Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons. Dr. Rosenfeld has studied viruses in the laboratory for two decades. Dr. Racaniello is a co-author of the textbook “Principles of Virology” and the host of the podcast “This Week in Virology” (“TWiV”).

 

 

 

 

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My wife and I went to Superstore in Coquitlam yesterday to pick up a few things. We were very pleasantly surprised that of all the shoppers and workers, we might have seen 5 unmasked folks inside and on the parking lot. Keep up the good work BC. I want to see how long I can go without getting a cold or flu this year. I'm getting close to 2 years now without getting either.

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39 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

My wife and I went to Superstore in Coquitlam yesterday to pick up a few things. We were very pleasantly surprised that of all the shoppers and workers, we might have seen 5 unmasked folks inside and on the parking lot. Keep up the good work BC. I want to see how long I can go without getting a cold or flu this year. I'm getting close to 2 years now without getting either.

I'd say it's about 70/30 in Vernon, though I expect that change quickly.  I'm finding it difficult not give the stink eye to people not wearing them

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8 hours ago, Jaimito said:

https://nyti.ms/3hqN4RJ

 

Opinion | Human Behavior During the Pandemic Is More Important Than Any Covid Variant

June 27, 2021

 

By Amy B. Rosenfeld and Vincent R. Racaniello

 

Dr. Rosenfeld and Dr. Racaniello are virology professors at Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons.

 

News headlines and health experts on social media are sounding the alarm over another variant of the coronavirus, this time Delta, claiming it is much more contagious and perhaps more lethal than any other variant seen so far. It’s easy to understand why: New variants of the virus continue to emerge, and cases are rising in many countries. But whether new variants pose a unique or substantial risk is still unknown, and as virologists, we are concerned that misunderstanding variants and the risk they pose can cause confusion and panic.

 

As the coronavirus spread globally, its genome changed — mutated — as expected for any virus. These mutations may affect the virus’s “fitness,” its ability to reproduce and spread. Some mutations weaken a virus, some have no measurable effect, and some make it stronger.

 

As a virus becomes more fit, it will outcompete less fit viruses — and Delta is not the first variant that has beat its predecessors and competitors in certain areas. There’s the Alpha variant that first became dominant in Britain, and the Gamma variant that first became dominant in Brazil. Such changes are not unique to the coronavirus. Increased viral fitness happens during every flu season and is why some flu variants may circulate more widely than others.

 

Just because a variant displaces another does not necessarily mean it is more infectious or more deadly to the people who become infected with it. As has been true for the past year and a half, human behavior is far more important in shaping the course of the pandemic than any variant.

 

There are many ways that a virus can mutate to increase its fitness. While there’s been much focus on changes in the virus’s spike proteins, which allow the coronavirus to invade cells, a virus can also sustain changes in other proteins. Such changes can allow the virus to replicate more easily or evade the immune system, for example. They may even allow the virus to persist longer in nasal passages.

 

Determining what impact a given mutation has requires substantial laboratory research. Sometimes, early conclusions about a particular mutation can be incorrect. When the first variant of note, D614G, emerged last winter, some scientists believed changes to the virus’s spike protein made the virus more contagious. But subsequent research showed that was not the case. Even so, each time a new change in the spike protein is identified, many experts presume the variant is more virulent and “of concern.” But whether any variant is biologically more transmissible or causes more severe illness has not been rigorously tested.

 

Right now, conclusions about variant transmissibility are based largely on how widespread the variant is. A variant might be deemed more contagious because it makes up a higher proportion of new infections. Delta is now the most common variant in India and Britain, accounting for more than 90 percent of new cases, and over 20 percent of new infections in the United States. Not all virologists, including us, agree that measurements like this are sufficient to declare a variant more transmissible or more contagious. What’s clear is Delta may be the fitter and dominant variant for now.

 

To determine increased transmissibility, the ability of the virus to be passed on from one person to another, requires more than measuring infection rates. It may require experiments in people, which are unethical to conduct.

 

Changes in people’s activities contribute to the rise of infections — such as travel, failure to mask and to adhere to physical distancing policies, and most important right now, insufficient vaccination — and these are often not considered in public discussion of variants.

 

The huge infection numbers in India, Nigeria and other places are not necessarily because of a particular variant, but in large part because of breached containment measures and crowded populations with poor public health infrastructures. If people are in situations in which they can be infected with the coronavirus, it’s highly likely they will be infected with the fittest variant in the area. Right now, in many places, that’s Delta.

 

What’s important to understand is that people infected with the variants do not necessarily develop more severe disease or die more frequently from the coronavirus, and it is essential to get vaccinated.

 

The coronavirus vaccines that have been developed are very effective in preventing severe disease and death caused by all variants, including Delta. Vaccines might not always prevent infections, but they make a substantial impact in reducing virus spread and risk for serious health problems. People who are unvaccinated are at a great risk for infection and harm from any variant of the coronavirus.

 

During a pandemic, a time of unknowns, people want immediate answers to the question, what does this mutation mean? Providing the correct answers may require years of research. For now, there’s little evidence that the virus is on an endless trajectory of increased transmission and virulence. Today’s vaccines can still end this pandemic.

 

Amy B. Rosenfeld and Vincent R. Racaniello are virologists in the Department of Microbiology and Immunology at Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons. Dr. Rosenfeld has studied viruses in the laboratory for two decades. Dr. Racaniello is a co-author of the textbook “Principles of Virology” and the host of the podcast “This Week in Virology” (“TWiV”).

 

 

 

 

This is why I don't think we're out of this yet, and certainly not in the US.  

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3 hours ago, stawns said:

I'd say it's about 70/30 in Vernon, though I expect that change quickly.  I'm finding it difficult not give the stink eye to people not wearing them

Just be careful doing that stink eye thing, I myself don't see an issue wearing a mask. But, I guess some folks think it's their god given rights to be in charge of themselves. The hell with everyone else.

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