[Trade] Red Wings trade Anthony Mantha to Capitals for Jakub Vrana, Richard Panik, 2021 1st-round pick, 2022 2nd-round pick

[CanadianRugby]

3 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

How many Mantha's did we have to giveaway in our rebuild?

Had a team that recently won 2 president trophies and had 101 points Benning's first year.  Though maybe it wasn't the good players and it was all Willie D that gave us success. 

[Devron]

Detroit wins and it’s not even close. Only way Washington wins this trade is if they win a cup.

 

Yzerman man. Watch out for Detroit in the next few years 

[McBackup]

Holy hell this seems like an overpay for Mantha.

[kanucks25]

14 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

How many Mantha's did we have to giveaway in our rebuild?

I mean, have we had a Mantha like player available to trade? I guess not.

 

But are you suggesting we haven't had many other opportunities to do a similar thing in all of Benning's time here?

 

Schmidt would be the closest thing to weaponizing cap space and even that doesn't really count considering we had to let go of one of Tanev or Toffoli to fit Schmidt.

[Dazzle]

17 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

How many Mantha's did we have to giveaway in our rebuild?

I'll answer for kanucks25:

We have the legendary (but injured) Hunter Shinkaruk. We had (highly inconsistent) Kassian. We had (disgruntled) Kesler (who put two teams that he'd waive on his NTC). We have Chaput and Vey.

 

I mean, Gillis did a BANG UP JOB in preparing for the future, if he wanted the Canucks to suck for the next few years. Oh and he made a risky trade with Schneider (a Nonis pick) to land Horvat. Yes, the trade worked out, but it speaks to the fact that he drafted and developed no one during his entire time there.

 

And we still have deluded people thinking Gillis did a better job. We had no player anywhere remotely like Hoglander as a prospect, let alone Kole Lind, etc. We have a lot of players that are waiting in the wings that show a lot of promise (and none of those players are 1st rounders).

 

Gillis was an abject failure.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Dazzle

[Alienhuggyflow]

18 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Had a team that recently won 2 president trophies and had 101 points Benning's first year.  Though maybe it wasn't the good players and it was all Willie D that gave us success. 

Yea and every player was past their prime and on bloated deals with full NMCs handed out by agent Gillis.

We had a Kesler who completely dicked Benning over. Very different a scenario. 

[EternalCanuckFan]

I agree that Detroit wins this trade but I don't know if I would say that the only way the Caps win is if they win the cup.

 

There was a take on Twitter which I think makes sense which made the point that for the Caps, Panik + 2nd could be seen as the Caps buying cap space since Panik is under contract for 2 more years.  Vrana would likely also have been due a significant raise.  The deal for Mantha is therefore more Vrana and 1st which, while still expensive, isn't as bad.  Both Panik and Vrana are useful players for the Red Wings while they rebuild, but I doubt either will be true center pieces for the future core of the Red Wings.

 

Mantha is a big add even if he is inconsistent.  He was near PPG last season and had been improving every season before.  Acquiring a 6'5" power forward like Mantha is always expensive, and it's even more valuable that he is under contract for a few more years at an AAV that is definitely much less than what Panik and Vrana would cost combined.

 

The Caps' window is closing quickly with OV getting older (even if he's still very productive) along with Backstrom, Kuznetsov and Carlson.  Mantha, turning 27 this year, is a solid player who will probably help with their transition.

 

Mantha and Wilson is a line that could potentially wreck other teams.  Mantha's PIMs are down this year but he's not necessarily shy to throw his weight or fists around.

[JeremyCuddles]

29 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Had a team that recently won 2 president trophies and had 101 points Benning's first year.  Though maybe it wasn't the good players and it was all Willie D that gave us success. 

Ah yes, all those 35 year old players that won us those president trophies. I am sure teams were lining up to take thjem off our hands. Sedins were the only two mid 30 year old players worth anything, but no contending team could take 14 mil in cap for them both. Hamhuis wasn't worth anything, and Benning got what he could for Hansen and Burrows. All things considered, he did as well as he could with the old folk assets we had. We had no Mantha's to trade. Kesler was the closest, but a 2 team list makes him hard to maximize value. That trade only looks bad cause we overpaid Bonino for Sutter who got struck with the bad case of Canuck luck. Guy was a consistent 80 game a season guy before coming here. But I digress, it's hard to sell assets for a rebuild when our best assets were around 35 years old and our best prospects were Jordan Subban, Shinkaruk and Horvat. Yzerman has the luxury of trading a Mantha. We didn't.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Vrana > Mantha and the deal was won/lost there. Sure the 1st and 2nd are late but this is robbery, Mantha is massively over-rated.

[Duodenum]

That's a nice haul for Mantha.

[Drakrami]

 Well Mantha is 26 years old already, and Detriot isn't going anywhere for a few years... So it does kind of make sense.  Yzerman getting some nice value back especially when Vrana is pretty good too. Seems like young players with potential cant develop in Washington, gets overshadowed by Ovechkin and co. Forsberg, Burakovsky and now Vrana

[RWMc1]

Panik in Detroit.

[Warhippy]

I loooove Mantha.

 

I know people are sleeping on it and it's a high price but I think Mantha explodes on the caps

[Lancaster]

With the return Mantha got... what would Virtanen have fetched?  

[The Vancouver Connection]

take notes BENDING

[knucklehead91]

2 hours ago, Dazzle said:

I'll answer for kanucks25:

We have the legendary (but injured) Hunter Shinkaruk. We had (highly inconsistent) Kassian. We had (disgruntled) Kesler (who put two teams that he'd waive on his NTC). We have Chaput and Vey.

 

I mean, Gillis did a BANG UP JOB in preparing for the future, if he wanted the Canucks to suck for the next few years. Oh and he made a risky trade with Schneider (a Nonis pick) to land Horvat. Yes, the trade worked out, but it speaks to the fact that he drafted and developed no one during his entire time there.

 

And we still have deluded people thinking Gillis did a better job. We had no player anywhere remotely like Hoglander as a prospect, let alone Kole Lind, etc. We have a lot of players that are waiting in the wings that show a lot of promise (and none of those players are 1st rounders).

 

Gillis was an abject failure.

The way Dubas is handing out draft picks for dog sh*t, Toronto will soon be headed down the same path

[khay]

I don't understand this trade for the Caps.

 

Vrana alone carries decent value, they had to include a 1st rounder?

 

Yzerman pulls this sort of thing everywhere he goes... does he really have dirt on every GM in the league?

[khay]

2 hours ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

I agree that Detroit wins this trade but I don't know if I would say that the only way the Caps win is if they win the cup.

 

There was a take on Twitter which I think makes sense which made the point that for the Caps, Panik + 2nd could be seen as the Caps buying cap space since Panik is under contract for 2 more years.  Vrana would likely also have been due a significant raise.  The deal for Mantha is therefore more Vrana and 1st which, while still expensive, isn't as bad.  Both Panik and Vrana are useful players for the Red Wings while they rebuild, but I doubt either will be true center pieces for the future core of the Red Wings.

 

Mantha is a big add even if he is inconsistent.  He was near PPG last season and had been improving every season before.  Acquiring a 6'5" power forward like Mantha is always expensive, and it's even more valuable that he is under contract for a few more years at an AAV that is definitely much less than what Panik and Vrana would cost combined.

 

The Caps' window is closing quickly with OV getting older (even if he's still very productive) along with Backstrom, Kuznetsov and Carlson.  Mantha, turning 27 this year, is a solid player who will probably help with their transition.

 

Mantha and Wilson is a line that could potentially wreck other teams.  Mantha's PIMs are down this year but he's not necessarily shy to throw his weight or fists around.

Thanks for the explanataion.

 

This trade makes more sense now.

 

Although I still think Vrana + 1st is an overpayment but I guess Yzerman is a highly regarded GM for a reason. And from Caps perspective, they are in a tough division and knows that they need size to go deep in the playoffs. They need to beat Foston first and that alone is not an easy task.

 

[kanucks25]

24 minutes ago, khay said:

I don't understand this trade for the Caps.

 

Vrana alone carries decent value, they had to include a 1st rounder?

 

Yzerman pulls this sort of thing everywhere he goes... does he really have dirt on every GM in the league?

Some GM's are just better than others, especially when it comes to trades.

 

Some GM's have excuses and others just get stuff done.

 

Look at Yzerman's last 3 trades combined:

 

In:

Vrana

1st

2nd

2nd

2nd

2nd

Panik (cap dump)
Staal (cap dump)

Gagner (cap dump)

 

Out:

Mantha

Athanasiou (UFA, wasn't going to be re-signed)

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by kanucks25

[EternalCanuckFan]

5 minutes ago, khay said:

Thanks for the explanataion.

 

This trade makes more sense now.

 

Although I still think Vrana + 1st is an overpayment but I guess Yzerman is a highly regarded GM for a reason. And from Caps perspective, they are in a tough division and knows that they need size to go deep in the playoffs. They need to beat Foston first and that alone is not an easy task.

 

It also goes to show how expensive buying cap space is.  Panik is a serviceable NHLer even if he wasn't able to crack the Caps' lineup and WSH had to give up a 2nd to make it work.

 

The Wings have 12 picks in 2021 and 11 in 2022.  They can either restock quickly or convert some of those picks into coveted players.  Although many picks moved around today, it does feel like picks are even more highly valued in the flat cap era since it's harder to move players.  It's one of the reasons that GMs need to be more careful about the contracts they sign (not that I see that happening any time soon).

 

I wonder if Yzerman may be in discussions with Ron Francis (Kraken) already about potential moves, depending on who is available.  The Kraken could take many players to exceed the cap if they already have deals with Detroit knowing that they can clear cap space with Detroit's help.  This could potentially help the Red Wings re-arm more quickly than expected.  Larkin's still pretty young but he's 5-years older than Seider which, to me, basically makes him the old man if Seider and whoever ends up filling out the Red Wings' core 

 

Of course they could also just draft 23 new players in the next 2-years and restock that way.

 

It will be interesting to see what Yzerman does and if he ends up just drafting.  If they go the drafting route, then I will be very curious to see how long it takes for them to be competitive again since it's pretty much the opposite approach the Canucks took.  I wasn't necessarily full team tank, but I would have been fine if the Canucks had clearly planned on acquiring as many picks as possible with whatever assets they had.  Mind you, for the Canucks, trading a guy like Mantha would be like them trading Horvat in the sense that both are seasoned veterans now but are still quite young.