[Discussion] Seth Jones again...

[HKSR]

Probably sick of hearing about Seth Jones, but if this is what it took to get him in a Canucks uniform next year (and assuming the Canucks get to speak to him regarding a contract extension first)... would you do it?

 

To VAN:

Seth Jones

 

To CBJ:

9OA

Nate Schmidt

Kole Lind

[BCNate]

The more I look at this draft, the more content I am to see who is available at 9.  We may be in a position to grab a better player than we are expecting to.

 

Seth Jones had a real down year last year, I assuming it is because the whole team fell apart, but still a little concerning.

 

If this is the package we are looking at, I'd look to STL as well and see what direction they are heading, maybe check in on Parayko.

 

Manson in Anaheim would be another, but on a lesser offer than this one.

 

One way or another, I fully expect that we will brig in a quality RHD this summer, most likely with Schmidt as the main player going out.

[MrCanuck94]

I wouldn't mind taking a chance on Jones, but I also believe Schmidt underperformed last season due to circumstances. He was the top minute man for one of the best teams before coming here.

 

Let's give him another shot, maybe a different package could be had for Jones?

[MrCanuck94]

22 minutes ago, BCNate said:

The more I look at this draft, the more content I am to see who is available at 9.  We may be in a position to grab a better player than we are expecting to.

I agree with this, the one thing the Hughes draft taught me is anything can happen when teams reach. I was all on board the hypothetical Hanifin for 7OA trade because I did not think there was a chance Hughes would be there.

[Coconuts]

I'd sooner retain that package tbh, I'm not sold on Jones. I'd sooner roll the dice on Schmidt bouncing back, he'd be far from the first player to not look his best during his first year with a new team. I thought he looked better as the season went on, and honestly, given how much of a mess this last season was for the entire team, I question how accurate a gauge it is for many of our players. 

 

I'm not remotely interested in giving up our first, this could very well likely be the last time we pick this high for a while if all goes well going forward, and we're going to need high end players on ELC's going forward as Boeser, Hughes, Pettersson, Horvat, and Miller (?) get re-upped. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Coconuts

[BCNate]

1 minute ago, MrCanuck94 said:

I agree with this, the one thing the Hughes draft taught me is anything can happen when teams reach. I was all on board the hypothetical Hanifin for 7OA trade because I did not think there was a chance Hughes would be there.

I assume you mean Dobson, but yeah, there are always  some surprise moves that drop a very good player.  I never expected to get Podkolzin at 10 either.

[c00kies]

1 minute ago, BCNate said:

I assume you mean Dobson, but yeah, there are always  some surprise moves that drop a very good player.  I never expected to get Podkolzin at 10 either.

I think he meant Hanifin. Hanifin was on the move and we could have traded our first for him, but we kept it and drafted Hughes. MrCanuck94 was saying he was initially all for trading the pick because he didn't think Hughes would fall to us.

[BCNate]

5 minutes ago, c00kies said:

I think he meant Hanifin. Hanifin was on the move and we could have traded our first for him, but we kept it and drafted Hughes. MrCanuck94 was saying he was initially all for trading the pick because he didn't think Hughes would fall to us.

Got it.  Not sure how I didn’t get that form his post.   Having myself a day here...

[JM_]

30 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I'd sooner retain that package tbh, I'm not sold on Jones. I'd sooner roll the dice on Schmidt bouncing back, he'd be far from the first player to not look his best during his first year with a new team. I thought he looked better as the season went on, and honestly, given how much of a mess this last season was for the entire team, I question how accurate a gauge it is for many of our players. 

 

I'm not remotely interested in giving up our first, this could very well likely be the last time we pick this high for a while if all goes well going forward, and we're going to need high end players on ELC's going forward as Boeser, Hughes, Pettersson, Horvat, and Miller (?) get re-upped. 

Thats a really good point - with any luck this is the highest pick we have for a long time

[Nucker 67]

Benning says they have 9 guys in the Draft they really like, but I think if another team made an offer for the #9, he may trade the pick for immediate help. It would have to be a great deal for VAN though, otherwise, stay the course. But if Parayko or Jones is coming to VAN in return, I hope they take that.  

 

Benning said they would be aggressive this off season, so it'll be interesting to see what he means by that. I'm expecting a buyout or two (Loui and Jake?), maybe Edler and Sutter aren't re-signed? (maybe Eddie signs with SEA as a free agent? He would still be close to home)  Also a couple of trades, add in Podkolzin and possibly Lind and Rathbone, and suddenly the roster could look very different next season. 

 

to CBJ - #9 (2021) and Myers (or Schmidt)

to VAN - #22 (2021), Jones (only if he re-signs) and Jenner

 

CBJ would then have the #5, #9 and #24 and a D to help replace Jones 

 

VAN gets a later 1st rounder, but with a weaker draft, they could still get a good player (possibly Lysell, Lambos or Raty?) Plus, they would have a top pairing Dman for Hughes - and Demko, and an upgraded 3rd line C.

 

or they can keep the #9, get a guy like Guenther and hope to heck he turns into Boeser

[Kobayashi Maru]

I would take the deal presented by the OP to get Jones if CBJ goes for it.  Reasoning:

 

-Draft will be a good one as there are 10 really good players in the draft, however it's still a lot of hope that player will reach the level of Jones in 2-3 years

-Schmidt still holds value today, but I fully expect that value to drop as his performance drops or stays the same and the contract could be an anchor.  He is a middle pair guy and we have lots of options for that range which are mostly cost controlled.

-I fully believe now that Lind will be an NHL player for us, but definitely in that middle six range and not higher.  We have a logjam in this range, so the specific impact of losing Lind for us is minimal.

 

Jones gives us the top pairing RHD we need to pair with Hughes for a decade.  We can debate for years whether Jones is a #1 or #2, but it doesn't matter as he is paired with Hughes which honestly will have the same discussion.  Worst case scenario is you have two #2 D on your top pair for a decade.  We could do worse. 

[PunjabiCanucks]

Myers, 9TH OA, Pearson, 2022 2nd round pick

 

Jones and Domi ?

[wildcam]

1 hour ago, BCNate said:

The more I look at this draft, the more content I am to see who is available at 9.  We may be in a position to grab a better player than we are expecting to.

 

Seth Jones had a real down year last year, I assuming it is because the whole team fell apart, but still a little concerning.

 

If this is the package we are looking at, I'd look to STL as well and see what direction they are heading, maybe check in on Parayko.

 

Manson in Anaheim would be another, but on a lesser offer than this one.

 

One way or another, I fully expect that we will brig in a quality RHD this summer, most likely with Schmidt as the main player going out.

I like your thinking..With Quinn Hughes, 21,  5'10 lots of offence so young #1 .....Rathbone 22, 5'10 very offenive # 2 or 3 guy

Juolevi #4 or #5 guy, Woo #4 maybe 2- 3 yrs? 

Hamonic 31, 6'2 -- toughness - played good with Hughes..?? Hope we resign - 2 X 1.9 -- 2.2 million

Myers š1, 6'7 - plays solid need hiss style in playoffs..

Scmidt ----Trade bait with offensive young players with Hughes and Rathbone...

 

Scmidt &  Juolevi  ---- Mason 6'3 -30, 4.1 million --- Max Jones 6'3 , 220,  4th rounder 2021

Scmidt & Lind  ------ Parayko 28 - 6'6 , 21 mins, 1 yr X 5.5  -- Would look great beside Hughes -

 

[VegasCanuck]

From what I've heard, Jones wants to control where he goes. Unless he's willing to sign an extension here, its an irrelevant discussion.

[khay]

2021 draft gives me a similar vibe as 2011 draft (https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2011e.html).

 

There were 9 guys in 2011 that were considered to be similarly good, surefire NHLers with top 6F or top 4D potentials and that turned out to be the case. The #1 overall pick wasn't the best player out of the top 9 that year and I think the same will be true in 2021 draft. The guy we pick at #9 could end up being better than the #1 overall pick.

 

There certainly doesn't seem like a superstar caliber player in this draft but we should be able to get a real good player at #9. We might get a Dougie Hamilton or Sean Couturier at #9.

 

Also, if we trade #9, I would want to get some draft capital coming back our way even if it's a 2nd rounder or later. There will be good players that will drop due to limited in-person viewing (e.g., Kucherov in 2011).

 

So, I'd keep the #9 overall unless it's a trade that is too good to pass up on. For example, an RHD under 25 with at least 3-5 years left before hitting UFA. Unfortunately, I feel that Seth Jones is too close to reaching UFA and his ask will surely be higher than 9 with Pietrangelo's 8.5 mil as a comparable.

 

One player that I would consider trading #9 for is Ekblad. He is 25, has cap hit of 7.5 mil and is about 4 years away from UFA. But why would Florida trade a player signed at a good cap hit? And what else do we need to give up in order to get Ekblad? #9 overall itself will not be enough. Schmidt + 9 for Ekblad? I still don't see Florida taking a lesser player + prospect that will only help them later, when their team is closer to contention than we are.

 

Another player that I would consider is Cernak but it will have to be as part of a bigger package. I think our #9 overall has higher value than Cernak but I can't see a package that makes sense for both teams. We might give up a prospect + #9 in exchange for Cernak + draft capital + forward (ideally Cirelli but maybe even Gourde or Palat). But I can't think of reasons why Tampa would give up a forward and a young RHD that is cap controlled. Maybe Tampa can use Cernak to dump some cap if they consider Palat/Gourde as cap dumps?

 

Tampa does need to dump two players this season: two of Gourde, Palat, Johnson, Killorn, McDonaugh. That will give them enough cap space to fill the bottom 6 and bottom pairing.
 

[EddieVedder]

2 hours ago, BCNate said:

The more I look at this draft, the more content I am to see who is available at 9.  We may be in a position to grab a better player than we are expecting to.

 

Seth Jones had a real down year last year, I assuming it is because the whole team fell apart, but still a little concerning.

 

If this is the package we are looking at, I'd look to STL as well and see what direction they are heading, maybe check in on Parayko.

 

Manson in Anaheim would be another, but on a lesser offer than this one.

 

One way or another, I fully expect that we will brig in a quality RHD this summer, most likely with Schmidt as the main player going out.

No on Jones. 

Yes to Manson.

Parayko is the heir apparent to Petro in St Louis.. doubt hes going anywhere.  

[MrCanuck94]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

Benning says they have 9 guys in the Draft they really like, but I think if another team made an offer for the #9, he may trade the pick for immediate help. It would have to be a great deal for VAN though, otherwise, stay the course. But if Parayko or Jones is coming to VAN in return, I hope they take that.  

 

Benning said they would be aggressive this off season, so it'll be interesting to see what he means by that. I'm expecting a buyout or two (Loui and Jake?), maybe Edler and Sutter aren't re-signed? (maybe Eddie signs with SEA as a free agent? He would still be close to home)  Also a couple of trades, add in Podkolzin and possibly Lind and Rathbone, and suddenly the roster could look very different next season. 

 

to CBJ - #9 (2021) and Myers (or Schmidt)

to VAN - #22 (2021), Jones (only if he re-signs) and Jenner

 

CBJ would then have the #5, #9 and #24 and a D to help replace Jones 

 

VAN gets a later 1st rounder, but with a weaker draft, they could still get a good player (possibly Lysell, Lambos or Raty?) Plus, they would have a top pairing Dman for Hughes - and Demko, and an upgraded 3rd line C.

 

or they can keep the #9, get a guy like Guenther and hope to heck he turns into Boeser

That package likely won't get you a signed Jones, let alone a late first and Jenner on top. Schmidt and #9 for a signed Jones would likely be closer but not enough imo.

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Thats a really good point - with any luck this is the highest pick we have for a long time

If this team is truly committed to competing, and they've indicated as much, one would think that going forward we'll either be making the playoffs or be stuck in draft pick no man's land. The young guys should continue to get better, we've got some good supporting players like Pearson, Schmidt, and Miller, and one would think that the lineup is going to be tinkered going forward whether that's internally or via trades or ufa. 

 

Roll the dice on a high pick, we've only ever picked #9 twice, and that got us Neely and Horvat. We all know the Neely story, but they both turned into great players. Maybe #9 will work for us again. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Coconuts

[Fanuck]

I think there exists a huge gap between the current 'market' value of a player like Seth Jones and the actual 'on-ice' value he presents.  Yes, CBJ was not great this year and yes, Torts systems probably didn't do him any favors, but even taking that into consideration there were some glaring inconsistencies to Jones' game this season (yes, I know it was an atypical season) which would put a huge 'red flag' beside this player if I were a GM - especially on a player coming off an inconsistent year who has one year left before UFA.  Jones will no doubt be looking for top 5 defenceman money (that's top 5 in the league, not on a team) and that puts him in the minimum $10, 000 000.00/yr range with clauses.  If you don't do your due diligence as a GM/franchise before considering this you could be potentially looking at a world of hurt cap-wise in the not too distant future. 

[Patel Bure]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

Probably sick of hearing about Seth Jones, but if this is what it took to get him in a Canucks uniform next year (and assuming the Canucks get to speak to him regarding a contract extension first)... would you do it?

 

To VAN:

Seth Jones

 

To CBJ:

9OA

Nate Schmidt

Kole Lind

That’s a great deal for Vancouver but can you honestly see CBJ agreeing to that?   I can’t.

 

If we have any dreams whatsoever of getting Seth Jones, the conversation *starts* with Horvat or Boeser.  Or, the conversation *starts* with Schmidt+Podkolzin or Miller+Podkolzin, or maybe even Miller+Schmidt.

 

I personally don’t think it’s realistic for us to get Jones and have him agree to signing here long term.   Acquiring Jones would likely cost us too many young assets, and I’m not sure that we can afford to do that.

 

I would personally rather kick the tires on Hampus Lindholm instead, and see what the asking price on him (although like Seth Jones, I’m not really a fan of the Canucks giving up young assets).

 

I am of the following opinion:

 

1) Try and use a 2nd + 3rd as a sweetener to get rid of Eriksson.

2) Use the Eriksson money to go after both David Savard and Alex Wenneberg.

 

Savard is by no means a sexy option, but he’d be a good utilitarian “defensive” defenseman that could be the ying to the Yang of one of Hughes or Schmidt.......and he’d only cost money.