Are the Canucks too much of a Featherweight team to push through the playoffs?

[UKNuck96]

5 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

4 hours ago, aqua59 said:

Canucks are far too small. Not enough hitting 

As originally mentioned, that statement came from the Donnie & Dahli show yesterday https://www.cheknews.ca/shows/donnie-and-dhali-the-team/ AT THE 52:00 MIN MARK.

Then putting it bluntly they are chatting $&!#, a quick search tells you that Canucks are pretty middle of the pack in terms of weight.

 

 

as to being to small 

 

tampa bay roster average height is 185.47 cm, the small Canucks 186.9

 

i wonder what resident stato @oldnews has to say on the matter 

Edited June 13, 2021 by UKNuck96

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 hours ago, the grinder said:

thats why i hope gadjovich can improve his skating  , went right after the guy in his first game 

& they give him 17 mins to indoctrinate a new Van addition. F*** this league!

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think during the Kings and Boston wins a few years ago, they had heavy players in their top-6 forwards and top-4 defencemen. Their top players were big and strong and matched up against other teams forwards and just out-skilled and out-hit them.

 

I think there's two ways of thinking - have top, elite-skilled forwards mixed with tougher guys, or have your top elite players big and strong. The latter seems to have worked for guys like Kopitar and O'Reilly for example, who weren't absolutely elite offensively but were point-per-game players, could defend and shutdown other teams' top lines but also endure getting hit.

 

I feel like we witnessed first hand the Canucks unable to endure in 2011, the Sedins took a pounding and Kesler wasn't strong enough to carry the team. We watched again just last season our top players get banged around in 3 series and by the end, had nothing to give and no offence left in the tank.

 

Whether it be a size or mental thing, we need our players to endure and last longer. Can Petey do it? I'm not sure. Can bigger guys like Boeser, Miller or Horvat? I think so. They have nice frames and need to play with more physicality, and IMO we need to do a bit of a re-shuffle in the playoffs and have Bo as our top line. This might happen naturally as Hogs and Podz develop quickly.

 

The other question is then on defence, do we have the size and physicality to match some big forwards? Quinn Hughes - laughable defensively this season but if we can protect him with a tougher guy like Hamonic, that covers a lot of holes. Rathbone isn't shutting anyone down physically so we really need to complement those two free-wheelers with some gritty guys. Look at all the playoff defencemen, most of the defences have one or two great point-producers complemented with about 4-5 very boring shutdown guys. Guys like Myers, Edler (soon to be retired though) and Schmidt do fit that bill to be fair, but we lack a young guy with size and grit who plays a safe game (Chatfield doesn't count, much too skinny at the moment).

 

So on the whole, yes I think we have some pieces in place, JB needs to round out our defence with some more defensive-minded tough guys. Up front our top-6 forwards have potential, but our bottom-6 is pathetic at the moment with guys like Highmore/Vesey/other pylons acquired during the season. Sutter, Motte and Beagle are our only decent bottom-6 players, and with Beagle likely done and Sutter ageing, we need a solution there otherwise our top-6 are going to end up knackered by the midway point of the season.

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, UKNuck96 said:

Then putting it bluntly they are chatting $&!#, a quick search tells you that Canucks are pretty middle of the pack in terms of weight.

 

 

as to being to small 

 

tampa bay roster average height is 185.47 cm, the small Canucks 186.9

 

i wonder what resident stato @oldnews has to say on the matter 

How tall a team is or how much they weigh is not the only determining factor in anything. Big players can be non physical and small players can be.

 

The Canucks wont struggle in the playoffs simply because they arent big enough. They will struggle unless they start actually consistently playing a faster, more physical, and more aggressive style. 

 

They need to add more players who can play that way. Whether they are 5'10" or 6'4". And they need the ones they have to play that way nore consistently.

[RU SERIOUS]

On 6/12/2021 at 11:35 PM, UKNuck96 said:

Then putting it bluntly they are chatting $&!#, a quick search tells you that Canucks are pretty middle of the pack in terms of weight.

 

 

as to being to small 

 

tampa bay roster average height is 185.47 cm, the small Canucks 186.9

 

i wonder what resident stato @oldnews has to say on the matter 

Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle, buy one thing for sure - that many know and stated above, that the Canucks are wimps and rarely stand up for each other and have No fight in them.   The most embarrassing thing I saw this entire past season was seeing Edler get the $ht knocked out of him and he couldn't even defend himself - despite his size.   

How embarrassing that was!!!!!

 

I attribute this to the "Swedish Finesse Syndrome" that has plagued this team for 20 years going back to Sundin, then Nazy, and then the twins who sucked the fight and grit right out of Horvat (and most of the team), leaving him an empty shadow of his once proud fighting Canadian self that he was once known for in Juniors. 

 

Until that syndrome is dealt with and eradicated by JB by selecting the "right" players onto our Roster, we'll likely see this continue for another generation with Petersson carrying the Swedish Finesse Syndrome torch into the future.   

Edited June 14, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle, buy one thing for sure - that many know and stated above, that the Canucks are wimps and rarely stand up for each other and have No fight in them.   The most embarrassing thing I saw this entire past season was seeing Edler get the $ht knocked out of him and he couldn't even defend himself - despite his size.   

How embarrassing that was!!!!!

 

I attribute this to the "Swedish Finesse Syndrome" that has plagued this team for 20 years going back to Sundin, then Nazy, and then the twins who sucked the fight and grit right out of Horvat (and most of the team), leaving him an empty shadow of his once proud fighting Canadian self that he was once know for in Juniors. 

 

Until that syndrome is dealt with and eradicated by JB by selecting the "right" players onto our Roster, we'll likely see this continue for another generation with Petersson carrying the Swedish Finesse Syndrome torch into the future.   

Might as well go back further then to Gradin and Lindgren days...  Sundin lol, played half a season for us and his name is still brought up.   Horvat is his own man, it's up to him and him alone how he wants to lead.    Lidstrom what a chump, nobody ever won a cup with a Swedish captain (and he's overrated)...listing Sundin before Naslund makes me wonder if you watched how he played the game.   Or if you were even around for the Naslund era by listing him first.   

 

This is coming from someone who loves old time hockey.   I agree that it's time to go back to Smyl/Linden leadership.   I don't agree that Horvat got his mojo screwed up following Hank.    Linden was around with Naslund and the Sedins and never stopped playing his game, so seems like a pile of horse crap.    That said i never thought Naslund was the right guy for the job, felt Jovo was a much better candidate, or even fellow Swede Ohlund.     Worst post game apathetic sound bites ever.   Win or lose the guy always had no jam in his manner.   Great player though.  

 

And aren't you lucky, Edler is about to retire soon maybe really soon.   EP ... without him we'd be screwed.   Hogs lol.   Guess he's terrible too.   Find me a cup winning team the last 30 years that hasn't had a good Euro player on it.   Forsberg was a Swede too you know.   So can't just pick on them.   Nobody ever questioned the way he played the game as "soft".  

 

Horvat had one whole fight listed on his OHL card....four NHL fights.  One a year is more then his average...yet this is somehow Edlers and the Sedins fault?  Or Greens...

Edited June 13, 2021 by IBatch

[Nuxfanabroad]

4 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle, buy one thing for sure - that many know and stated above, that the Canucks are wimps and rarely stand up for each other and have No fight in them.   The most embarrassing thing I saw this entire past season was seeing Edler get the $ht knocked out of him and he couldn't even defend himself - despite his size.   

How embarrassing that was!!!!!

 

I attribute this to the "Swedish Finesse Syndrome" that has plagued this team for 20 years going back to Sundin, then Nazy, and then the twins who sucked the fight and grit right out of Horvat (and most of the team), leaving him an empty shadow of his once proud fighting Canadian self that he was once know for in Juniors. 

 

Until that syndrome is dealt with and eradicated by JB by selecting the "right" players onto our Roster, we'll likely see this continue for another generation with Petersson carrying the Swedish Finesse Syndrome torch into the future.   

It WAS pretty damned lame. How can you be in this league for 15 yrs, yet not learn how to simply latch on to a guy & dance around?

 

If you wanna throw big checks as AE occasionally does, at least learn to half-@$$, hug-out a tilt.

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Might as well go back further then to Gradin and Lindgren days...  Sundin lol, played half a season for us and his name is still brought up.   Horvat is his own man, it's up to him and him alone how he wants to lead.    Lidstrom what a chump, nobody ever won a cup with a Swedish captain (and he's overrated)...listing Sundin before Naslund makes me wonder if you watched how he played the game.   Or if you were even around for the Naslund era by listing him first.   

 

This is coming from someone who loves old time hockey.   I agree that it's time to go back to Smyl/Linden leadership.   I don't agree that Horvat got his mojo screwed up following Hank.    Linden was around with Naslund and the Sedins and never stopped playing his game, so seems like a pile of horse crap.    That said i never thought Naslund was the right guy for the job, felt Jovo was a much better candidate, or even fellow Swede Ohlund.     Worst post game apathetic sound bites ever.   Win or lose the guy always had no jam in his manner.   Great player though.  

 

And aren't you lucky, Edler is about to retire soon maybe really soon.   EP ... without him we'd be screwed.   Hogs lol.   Guess he's terrible too.   Find me a cup winning team the last 30 years that hasn't had a good Euro player on it.   Forsberg was a Swede too you know.   So can't just pick on them.   Nobody ever questioned the way he played the game as "soft".  

 

Horvat had one whole fight listed on his OHL card....four NHL fights.  One a year is more then his average...yet this is somehow Edlers and the Sedins fault?  Or Greens...

As much as I will always admire the physical game the Sedin's played throughout their careers their game after the whistle left something to be desired. That doesn't mean that they could not have been supported better by other players. Bur helped a lot. Something to consider is the effect that highly skilled players have on their impressionable younger team mates. When you see very good players like the Sedin twins have great success do you alter your own game to try and achieve the same success? I am sure this happens and perhaps, on balance, it produces a better player. It is up to the coaches to monitor. 

 

IMHO EP40 appears to be more confrontational on the ice than the Twins. Early yet in his career. Still hoping to see him play at 195-200 pounds.   

[Alflives]

5 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle, buy one thing for sure - that many know and stated above, that the Canucks are wimps and rarely stand up for each other and have No fight in them.   The most embarrassing thing I saw this entire past season was seeing Edler get the $ht knocked out of him and he couldn't even defend himself - despite his size.   

How embarrassing that was!!!!!

 

I attribute this to the "Swedish Finesse Syndrome" that has plagued this team for 20 years going back to Sundin, then Nazy, and then the twins who sucked the fight and grit right out of Horvat (and most of the team), leaving him an empty shadow of his once proud fighting Canadian self that he was once know for in Juniors. 

 

Until that syndrome is dealt with and eradicated by JB by selecting the "right" players onto our Roster, we'll likely see this continue for another generation with Petersson carrying the Swedish Finesse Syndrome torch into the future.   

Simmonds actions and presence sure made the core guys of the Leafs play tougher.  In fact they were so juiced they swept the Habs.  

Toughness isn5 about fighting.  Toughness is about the internal strength of character to battle through whatever it takes to win, which is most apparent in the playoffs.  That internal toughness must be part of the key core (top minute) guys’ make-up.  We see teams, like the Loser Leafs, bring in guys with character in supporting roles, but their core is still soft.  So they continue to lose in hard nosed hockey.

our young core proved in the bubble they do have the strength of character to win playoff series hockey.  They have the internal toughness in their character.  Don’t forget Petey was more than a PPG playoff guy, Bo scored a lot of key goals, and Hughes set the rookie record for D scoring.  Those were tough, big boy, hockey series against Minny, St. Louis, and Vegas and our key core guys were excellent.  

Now we added Hogs, who clearly has internal toughness to battle, and Pods, who is a proven beast in playoff hockey.  

We are actually looking really good in having our key core guys having internal toughness of character.

 

So who are our core guys that have proven to succeed in hard playoff hockey:

Demko

Bo

Miler

Petey

Bess

Hughes

Pods

Thats a great group.  

[IBatch]

38 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

As much as I will always admire the physical game the Sedin's played throughout their careers their game after the whistle left something to be desired. That doesn't mean that they could not have been supported better by other players. Bur helped a lot. Something to consider is the effect that highly skilled players have on their impressionable younger team mates. When you see very good players like the Sedin twins have great success do you alter your own game to try and achieve the same success? I am sure this happens and perhaps, on balance, it produces a better player. It is up to the coaches to monitor. 

 

IMHO EP40 appears to be more confrontational on the ice than the Twins. Early yet in his career. Still hoping to see him play at 195-200 pounds.   

Absolutely.    There is nothing wrong with the Sedins.   Liked what Torts had to say about them, they were tough players who took a lot of abuse and kept on ticking,  and it wasn't like they didn't use their sticks.   Agree with EP too, appears to have a little pushback but have to wonder how him and QHs would have managed during the Dead Puck era when stickwork and holding wasn't called nearly as often.    Game is changing.   Smaller players, size wise looked at a graph yesterday youd have to go all the way back to the late 80's to get a decent comp. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Simmonds actions and presence sure made the core guys of the Leafs play tougher.  In fact they were so juiced they swept the Habs.  

Toughness isn5 about fighting.  Toughness is about the internal strength of character to battle through whatever it takes to win, which is most apparent in the playoffs.  That internal toughness must be part of the key core (top minute) guys’ make-up.  We see teams, like the Loser Leafs, bring in guys with character in supporting roles, but their core is still soft.  So they continue to lose in hard nosed hockey.

our young core proved in the bubble they do have the strength of character to win playoff series hockey.  They have the internal toughness in their character.  Don’t forget Petey was more than a PPG playoff guy, Bo scored a lot of key goals, and Hughes set the rookie record for D scoring.  Those were tough, big boy, hockey series against Minny, St. Louis, and Vegas and our key core guys were excellent.  

Now we added Hogs, who clearly has internal toughness to battle, and Pods, who is a proven beast in playoff hockey.  

We are actually looking really good in having our key core guys having internal toughness of character.

 

So who are our core guys that have proven to succeed in hard playoff hockey:

Demko

Bo

Miler

Petey

Bess

Hughes

Pods

Thats a great group.  

I think one other lesson here is if you're going to bring in a tough guy, it has to be someone other players are intimidated by. Sorry Leafs, but thats not Simmonds. I don't see the point in bringing in a sort of 2nd tier tough guy over team toughness, the kind you're talking about. It can't replace a soft core. 

 

 

[mikeyman109]

17 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I dont think the Canucks are that bad in the size department. Its the fact they dont play that style of game consistently. 

 

They could use more size and physical play for sure but I feel like what they need most (and one of the reasons those other teams are where they are in the playoffs) is skill that can play a bit tougher style throughout the lineup.

 

I also think with a different,more aggressive defensive style we will see some of our guys show a lot better than they have in the physicality department. 

I agree that they don't play that style of game but that's part of the problem. Trying to out gun some of the bigger teams in the league, see Vegas, who have combined size with speed is difficult with the roster we have assembled. You can have smaller players on your team and by smaller i mean slender or players that play smaller however you cannot have a full roster without a few of the big boys to punish the other team physically. Yes the NHL has changed but one thing remains true, wearing out your opponents is key to winning a seven game series.

Its unfortunate the Jake has not taken the steps necessary to become a force in that department for us. He has size speed and decent hands but cannot figure out how to play the heavy game. If Only Tyler Motte was a bit bigger player.

When we went to finals in 94 we were the biggest team in the league at the time. In 2011 we were not small either. Guys like Torres and Lapierre had not issue getting around the rink. Its not just about the size though, you need skill players and one thing we have lacked this past season that was very noticeable in comparison to the rest of the north division was speed. The last time i remember a breakaway from a Canucks player was Horvat scoring against the Blues in the playoffs last season. I am sure there were a few this past season but its  not a regular occurrence. We do have them against us often though.

So its the mix of speed with skill that kills.Big players that can skate well and have a better head on their shoulders than Virtanen. We need size on D that can skate also if we are to compete. Hughes is a great talent but he isnt our best penatly killer. Its not the be all and end all to be bigger everywhere but it wouldn't hurt to get a big bigger all around

[ShawnAntoski]

11 hours ago, Jester13 said:

Yes, you need size to go with skill, and if you don't have the overall size then you better play a heavier game.

 

I'm stoked we got Shaw to help with defence, but I've be even happier to see our guys push back on cheap shots and stick up for each other at the drop of a hat. This is another coaching change that needs to happen. Here's hoping.

Yeah, the system on the ice has to get tougher to play against as well regardless, of personnel.

[-DLC-]

The fact that we've been announced as "fun to play against" has to change.

 

But the odds are against us to get a fair shot at playing a physical game.  The Myers stuff last playoffs was a joke...a big guy is easier to see/target.  Then, in contrast, you see the joke that is the Wilson "discipline".

 

Let's face it, some teams get away with MUCH MORE than other teams.  It sucks because it makes it difficult.  Even IF you get big guys who can push back, the fact that our guys are often under the ref's microscope makes it less effective.  Ending up shorthanded puts a strain on guys who have to eat up minutes and become tired.  Other teams are speaking out too, so I hope it gets fixed soon.  The inconsistency is making an uneven playing field and taking away the authenticity of a good, hard fought game.  "Managed" games don't fall under that...they lose momentum.

 

With that, I still want someone who'll smash anyone who looks at Petey/Quinn.  I don't mean to instigate that...I mean when there's a wrestling throw to the ice, someone's gonna pay for that.

 

The "discipline" only goes so far and if other teams are laughing and taking advantage, time to abandon the rules (that don't exist at times) and send a message.   Change that reputation, one dirty hit pushback at a time.  Waiting for the refs to address issues isn't working as it should.  It's so hit and miss.

 

I see some of that....especially in the last few games when the guys had a bit more energy.  Sometimes when teams are taking liberties you have to just roll with the feeling of being fed up and pissed off.  

 

Vegas peters out and they can be sporadic.  Sure, they're a force when they do turn it on but they run out of juice at times too.  So it's really a balance of speed, skill, strength and endurance.  It's hard to sustain a physical game throughout 3 periods.  But size does matter in that you have to have some bigger guys who play a physical role.

[ShawnAntoski]

8 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle, buy one thing for sure - that many know and stated above, that the Canucks are wimps and rarely stand up for each other and have No fight in them.   The most embarrassing thing I saw this entire past season was seeing Edler get the $ht knocked out of him and he couldn't even defend himself - despite his size.   

How embarrassing that was!!!!!

 

I attribute this to the "Swedish Finesse Syndrome" that has plagued this team for 20 years going back to Sundin, then Nazy, and then the twins who sucked the fight and grit right out of Horvat (and most of the team), leaving him an empty shadow of his once proud fighting Canadian self that he was once know for in Juniors. 

 

Until that syndrome is dealt with and eradicated by JB by selecting the "right" players onto our Roster, we'll likely see this continue for another generation with Petersson carrying the Swedish Finesse Syndrome torch into the future.   

Ditto and hindsight has proven that the Gentleman’s type of hockey can only (at most) lead to trophies in the regular season were the Zebras are very active at being game managers.  In the playoffs, declaring war is the mentality needed for playoffs success but the biggest X factor is the goalie performance; as proven by Greens (very) flawed system were a consistent good to great performance can still lead to wins; at the cost of wear & tear on the goaltender.

 

Edlers’ non response reminded me of the 2011 series were the Bruins (really) amped up there douchery (on & off the ice) after the Marchand & Sedin incidence.  That bewildered look on Marchands’ face due to the non response of Sedin is hard to forget and watching it live didn’t help. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[-DLC-]

On 6/13/2021 at 10:12 AM, ShawnAntoski said:

Ditto and hindsight has proven that the Gentleman’s type of hockey can only (at most) lead to trophies in the regular season were the Zebras are very active at being game managers.  In the playoffs, declaring war is the mentality needed for playoffs success but the biggest X factor is the goalie performance; as proven by Greens (very) flawed system were a consistent good to great performance can still lead to wins; at the cost of wear & tear on the goaltender.

Our team can't get away with much and the zebras HAVE BEEN active when it comes to seeing infractions that shouldn't be called in playoff hockey, but are.  It's still lopsided and it's hard to gain traction.  I do agree that you have to have that going to war mentality...but not all can executive that without it doing more harm than good.  Except I'm past that now because if you're going to go down, go down swinging.

 

You REALLY have to lean on great goaltending in the playoffs...I'm convinced that's the biggest factor overall.  (I misread your comment the first time).  So I agree.

 

Injures, officiating also come into play - but if you have a great goaltender, you let him work his magic.  Thing is, some goaltenders PREFER to be really involved...keeps them sharp through the game.

 

It's not really "at the cost of" a goaltender - it's HAVING a goaltender in place who's up to the challenge.  People cry over Demko having to perform at that level but that's why you have him.  Habs without Price?  Vegas relied pretty heavily on Fleury last (critical) game.  It's just how it is...goaltenders have to be ready to perform at a peak level if you have a chance at all.

 

Keeping the shots to the outside and giving a clear view is important and I'm not against that strategy.  Sure, a firing range is an issue....but I've noticed that teams are also blocking an incredible amount of shots these days.  Not just our team.

[RU SERIOUS]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Simmonds actions and presence sure made the core guys of the Leafs play tougher.  In fact they were so juiced they swept the Habs.  

Toughness isn5 about fighting.  Toughness is about the internal strength of character to battle through whatever it takes to win, which is most apparent in the playoffs.  That internal toughness must be part of the key core (top minute) guys’ make-up.  We see teams, like the Loser Leafs, bring in guys with character in supporting roles, but their core is still soft.  So they continue to lose in hard nosed hockey.

our young core proved in the bubble they do have the strength of character to win playoff series hockey.  They have the internal toughness in their character.  Don’t forget Petey was more than a PPG playoff guy, Bo scored a lot of key goals, and Hughes set the rookie record for D scoring.  Those were tough, big boy, hockey series against Minny, St. Louis, and Vegas and our key core guys were excellent.  

Now we added Hogs, who clearly has internal toughness to battle, and Pods, who is a proven beast in playoff hockey.  

We are actually looking really good in having our key core guys having internal toughness of character.

 

So who are our core guys that have proven to succeed in hard playoff hockey:

Demko

Bo

Miler

Petey

Bess

Hughes

Pods

Thats a great group.  

While Internal toughness is one of many attributes required to be successful in winning the Stanley cup, physical size (roughness) & toughness of a team has and always will be one of the very most important attributes required to push through the playoffs - all the way.  If you've been around long enough, which it sounds like you have, you know that as the playoff rounds progress and certainly in the final series, the level of physical play (and I'm not just talking about fighting) intensifies and rises to a peak and is usually amongst the top determining factors on who will win the cup.   

In 2011 that's what killed us, as Boston took over physical play after Rome P'd them off and woke them up and they severely abused our players to the point of disgust (Remember Kesler being constantly whacked in the back of his legs by Chara in front of the net & Sedin being punched square in the face and standing there like a statue doing nothing about it or how about Boychuk taking Raymond out in the boards - for good - and I can go on with many, many, more examples).

 

So, its safe to say we are lacking dearly with that type of physical pushback on this current Canucks roster.  As for last year, we were out muscled and severely outplayed in many games and especially in the LV series and if it wasn't for "divine intervention" / stellar-goaltending, we would have been slaughtered, as we were badly out muscled, outplayed and outshot in most of that series as you know.

 

So as for those players you listed above, excluding Demko who is a goalie,  I'd say the only forward with that ability to play with grit and physical toughness is Miler and I'll be polite and include Horvat (just for you) as every now & then he shakes off the "Swedish Finesse Syndrome" he was instilled with by the Sedins and gets involved physically.    As for the other 4; Hogs, Boeser and Hughes, they are all young Finesse players, or too small/slight or don't get involved with heavy duty physical play, and Pod's is an unproven/untested NHL player and should not even be mentioned at this time.  So on a 21 man roster that is pretty sad and skimpy and why this team needs to bulk, size  & toughen up a bit because small regular season - fun to watch Finesse players will never be enough to win the cup and "I'll bet the house" on that and I think you know that too!

 

[ShawnAntoski]

27 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

While Internal toughness is one of many attributes required to be successful in winning the Stanley cup, physical size (roughness) & toughness of a team has and always will be one of the very most important attributes required to push through the playoffs - all the way.  If you've been around long enough, which it sounds like you have, you know that as the playoff rounds progress and certainly in the final series, the level of physical play (and I'm not just talking about fighting) intensifies and rises to a peak and is usually amongst the top determining factors on who will win the cup.   

In 2011 that's what killed us, as Boston took over physical play after Rome P'd them off and woke them up and they severely abused our players to the point of disgust (Remember Kesler being constantly whacked in the back of his legs by Chara in front of the net & Sedin being punched square in the face and standing there like a statue doing nothing about it or how about Boychuk taking Raymond out in the boards - for good - and I can go on with many, many, more examples).

 

So, its safe to say we are lacking dearly with that type of physical pushback on this current Canucks roster.  As for last year, we were out muscled and severely outplayed in many games and especially in the LV series and if it wasn't for "divine intervention" / stellar-goaltending, we would have been slaughtered, as we were badly out muscled, outplayed and outshot in most of that series as you know.

 

So as for those players you listed above, excluding Demko who is a goalie,  I'd say the only forward with that ability to play with grit and physical toughness is Miler and I'll be polite and include Horvat (just for you) as every now & then he shakes off the "Swedish Finesse Syndrome" he was instilled with by the Sedins and gets involved physically.    As for the other 4; Hogs, Boeser and Hughes, they are all young Finesse players, or too small/slight or don't get involved with heavy duty physical play, and Pod's is an unproven/untested NHL player and should not even be mentioned at this time.  So on a 21 man roster that is pretty sad and skimpy and why this team needs to bulk, size  & toughen up a bit because small regular season - fun to watch Finesse players will never be enough to win the cup and "I'll bet the house" on that and I think you know that too!

 

Good take !  Hopefully, Shaw can bring some truculence from Columbus through his systems and provide some of that team toughness identity which has been lacking for awhile now.  Preferably, all the FA's walk cause it is time for this team to have a new identity.

Edited June 13, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[Ballisticsports.]

34 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

The fact that we've been announced as "fun to play against" has to change.

 

But the odds are against us to get a fair shot at playing a physical game.  The Myers stuff last playoffs was a joke...a big guy is easier to see/target.  Then, in contrast, you see the joke that is the Wilson "discipline".

 

Let's face it, some teams get away with MUCH MORE than other teams.  It sucks because it makes it difficult.  Even IF you get big guys who can push back, the fact that our guys are often under the ref's microscope makes it less effective.  Ending up shorthanded puts a strain on guys who have to eat up minutes and become tired.  Other teams are speaking out too, so I hope it gets fixed soon.  The inconsistency is making an uneven playing field and taking away the authenticity of a good, hard fought game.  "Managed" games don't fall under that...they lose momentum.

 

With that, I still want someone who'll smash anyone who looks at Petey/Quinn.  I don't mean to instigate that...I mean when there's a wrestling throw to the ice, someone's gonna pay for that.

 

The "discipline" only goes so far and if other teams are laughing and taking advantage, time to abandon the rules (that don't exist at times) and send a message.   Change that reputation, one dirty hit pushback at a time.  Waiting for the refs to address issues isn't working as it should.  It's so hit and miss.

 

I see some of that....especially in the last few games when the guys had a bit more energy.  Sometimes when teams are taking liberties you have to just roll with the feeling of being fed up and pissed off.  

 

Vegas peters out and they can be sporadic.  Sure, they're a force when they do turn it on but they run out of juice at times too.  So it's really a balance of speed, skill, strength and endurance.  It's hard to sustain a physical game throughout 3 periods.  But size does matter in that you have to have some bigger guys who play a physical role.

I have found that frustrating to watch myself, myself and we always seem to get the instigator while other teams don't. and wonder why it is this way?

 The Marchant incident brought up earlier was obviously allowed to happen, because the ref didn't want to give the Canucks a PP (which they excelled at) and were waiting for Daniel to do something and call them both,

Why would they do this though?

Does the NHL have a plan too? What is better for the image, strength and growth of the league, with who wins ?

Dislike the owner?

Dislike the Statue of our team glorifying a coach throwing in the towel frustrated because of it doesn't matter how he coaches his team , they will call the game differently?

Dislike the bad publicity that Vancouver gives the NHL when we lose in the playoffs with riots (I am embarrassed myself and was so upset last time, i almost went downtown to straighten out those losers

I feel if we get another Gino type the refs would give us calls at pivotal times of a game to cost us games, even having team toughness i feel we won't get away with and why we tend to walk away? Green never played as a softy and i am sure he would like to have his players play with fire, but those are not the type he was provided with and has to use what is available to him and utilize them in the best way he can. We seem to be damned if we do and damned if we don't play tough.

Most likely will have to have a deep strong fast durable team that can beat the other team and refs and a little luck to win it all as teams still require

[Boudrias]

59 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I have found that frustrating to watch myself, myself and we always seem to get the instigator while other teams don't. and wonder why it is this way?

 The Marchant incident brought up earlier was obviously allowed to happen, because the ref didn't want to give the Canucks a PP (which they excelled at) and were waiting for Daniel to do something and call them both,

Why would they do this though?

Does the NHL have a plan too? What is better for the image, strength and growth of the league, with who wins ?

Dislike the owner?

Dislike the Statue of our team glorifying a coach throwing in the towel frustrated because of it doesn't matter how he coaches his team , they will call the game differently?

Dislike the bad publicity that Vancouver gives the NHL when we lose in the playoffs with riots (I am embarrassed myself and was so upset last time, i almost went downtown to straighten out those losers

I feel if we get another Gino type the refs would give us calls at pivotal times of a game to cost us games, even having team toughness i feel we won't get away with and why we tend to walk away? Green never played as a softy and i am sure he would like to have his players play with fire, but those are not the type he was provided with and has to use what is available to him and utilize them in the best way he can. We seem to be damned if we do and damned if we don't play tough.

Most likely will have to have a deep strong fast durable team that can beat the other team and refs and a little luck to win it all as teams still require

I thought Boston finally got called out by the NHL in the NYI series. High end offensive teams hope to get the lead to deter physical play by their opponents. Their PP can deter as well. That said, inevitably, the physical game comes into play. In 2011 when Boston realized they couldn’t play with the Canucks they went physical. Canucks were injured and the refs didn’t help but they couldn’t stand up to the Bruins well enough to win the series and Cup.