[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Ghostsof1915]

38 minutes ago, BPA said:

I see middle ground as…

 

$7M x 8yr = $56M

$7.5M x 7yr = $52.5M

$8M x 6yr = $48M

 

Something along these lines.

I was thinking more of insurance for the Canucks.

 

Years 1-4 $11 million per

Years 5-7: $4 million per

Total $56/7 =  $8 million per year AAV.

I don't see him dropping off below 60 points per year the first 4 years.

Gives the team flexibility to trade him on years 5, 6 and 7 if he does drop off on say year 4.

He can have a 12 team no trade list effect years 5-7.

Everyone's happy?

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Back to regular planned viewing................

 

We certainly have some "IF's" but, IMO, we are very close to having a contending team, and "IF" Jimmy Rutherford and Alvin can find away to keep Miller, Horvat and Pettersson all on the team, without blowing the rest up, I think we are very close to having a top 10 team.

 

Certainly Myers $6,000,000 off the books would help, but what does it cost for a replacement? Pearson's contract is coming up, and shaves off $3,250,000 + , but he provides a heavy body, and a consistency to the team. Dickenson contract is still 2 years away, and has been pretty well useless. Collectively, these 3 players account for $11,250,000 and are probably the players that will have to be moved to accommodate the younger contracts that will be coming up..............namely Podkolzin, and Pettersson.

 

So where does the money come to keep Miller, Kuzmenko, Hoglander and Horvat?..................IMO, we need 3 to 4 million extra to keep both..........where does it come from?

 

Answer............keep Hoglander and move Garland, and hope Kuzmenko and Hoglander  do not move the needle too far

 

IMO, if Rutherford and Alvin can sort that mess out, we are very close to being the team we want.....................oh, yeh...............and we still need that good, sound RHD!

Have not we been trying to move money, but can’t find anyone who wants our players that doesn’t insist on sweetener?  

Even a guy like Garland.  I wonder really what value he actually has.  Could we do a full dumperoo with his contract, and just take back picks/prospects?  Or is he a guy no one takes unless we take back equal (or close to equal) money?  

[Mustard Tiger]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Chia pet was bad too.  And that clown, Bergevin.  Several horrid GM’s, but Benning certainly gets onto the Mount Rushmore of the worst of the worst.  

I think about what should have been, if not for Benning.  How much better are we situated if Benning doesn’t give up 2 of our last three firsts, seconds and thirds and we use those picks to draft?  No Miller, OEL, and Garland.  There’s 16 million in cap space and our prospect cupboard would actually be full, because we would be drafting top 5-10.

" Don't be such a GMJBPCMBCF! " 

[-DLC-]

32 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said:

when our young stars are still years away from being in their prime won't help us in the long runIt is a fact huggy + EP are about 4 years away from entering their prime though. 

 

 

This?

 

Wrong. Players "in their prime" depends a lot on them as individuals...I mean, some players take longer to develop/reach the NHL than others. It isn't an age based thing (only)...it's also maturity, work ethic, etc. Petey's turning 24 in a few months. Quinn, 23. So using your math, 28 is just entering prime NHL real estate which means JT's not an old fellow by that standard...he just entered his prime last year. Got some prime years left in the tank then and the decline won't be as drastic as some predict. We have to use the same measuring stick, right?

 

I'd say in this NHL players are peaking by 28'ish for many.

 

"Still years away", again, is your opinion only. It isn't "factual" because you're applying a one size fits all standard.

[Alflives]

Here it is:

Extend both Miller and Bo.  

Go all in right now and for Demko four years.

Then do a tear it down to the sewer lines rebuild.

[Mustard Tiger]

3 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

This?

 

Wrong. Players "in their prime" depends a lot on them as individuals...I mean, some players take longer to develop/reach the NHL than others. It isn't an age based thing (only)...it's also maturity, work ethic, etc. Petey's turning 24 in a few months. Quinn, 23. So using your math, 28 is just entering prime NHL real estate which means JT's not an old fellow using that standard.

 

I'd say in this NHL players are peaking by 28'ish.

 

"Still years away", again, is your opinion only. It isn't "factual" because you're applying a one size fits all standard.

Okay. So I don't see much point continuing a back and forth opinion based convo when we are clearly on opposite ends of the spectrum. The season can't come fast enough, Im sure we can agree on that one 

[4petesake]

9 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

This?

 

Wrong. Players "in their prime" depends a lot on them as individuals...I mean, some players take longer to develop/reach the NHL than others. It isn't an age based thing (only)...it's also maturity, work ethic, etc. Petey's turning 24 in a few months. Quinn, 23. So using your math, 28 is just entering prime NHL real estate which means JT's not an old fellow by that standard...he just entered his prime last year. Got some prime years left in the tank then and the decline won't be as drastic as some predict. We have to use the same measuring stick, right?

 

I'd say in this NHL players are peaking by 28'ish for many.

 

"Still years away", again, is your opinion only. It isn't "factual" because you're applying a one size fits all standard.

Let me get this straight….we only get one year of Quinn in his prime and then we have to trade him because he’ll be UFA the following season???

[Jester13]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Here it is:

Extend both Miller and Bo.  

Go all in right now and for Demko four years.

Then do a tear it down to the sewer lines rebuild.

It's not like this has to be Demko's only contract with us. We have quite a long time to go all-in the right way. There's no rush.

[-DLC-]

16 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said:

Okay. So I don't see much point continuing a back and forth opinion based convo when we are clearly on opposite ends of the spectrum. The season can't come fast enough, Im sure we can agree on that one 

Kind of hard to explain that one away....I mean, the same standards apply to our "core" players who won't be in their prime "until" they're 27-28 to JT, who is 29.  

 

Cheers, the season can't come fast enough...I totally agree on that point. 

 

And look, I'm a realist...JT is quite possibly going. But that's not a for sure/fact and so I can still hope he doesn't and my experience in life tells me negotiations can be far apart but come closer together. Especially as time goes on and the reality of the situation starts to change the landscape a bit.

 

(I have a little JT spirit in me....I'm all in/emotional and make no apologies for that)   *slams the gate and drops an f bomb on her way out.....

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

It's not like this has to be Demko's only contract with us. We have quite a long time to go all-in the right way. There's no rush.

Demko is currently on an excellent value contract right through his prime (26-30)

Hughes is on a great contract too.

It’s either all in right now (and four four years) or tear it back to the septic tank and rebuild.  IMHAO It’s stupid to keep finishing in the middle.  

Edited August 12, 2022 by Alflives

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

It's not like this has to be Demko's only contract with us. We have quite a long time to go all-in the right way. There's no rush.

Yeah I've heard this before and don't believe in this way of thinking at all. Could you imagine if NHL teams based their windows on their goalie contracts? Everyone's windows would be 2-3 years in most cases and the league would be piss poor. In reality you plan on either re-signing your goalie or replacing them ... obviously. It doesn't stop you from planning to have the best team you can because you don't have a top goalie signed for 8 years. Purposely deciding you can't compete in 4 years because you don't have a goalie signed is like self mutilation.

 

Most good goalies have incentive to re-sign with their teams as there aren't a lot of starting goalie jobs available, and they also have been the center of the team's commitments for years. There is loyalty and security there.

[Dr. Crossbar]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

there's clearly mutual interest here between player and management. Just split the difference and get it done. 

Exactly what I was thinking. He clearly wants to be here. Hopefully they can find that middle. 

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, Mustard Tiger said:

I'm right there with you in being one of the most optimistic fans on these boards! Keeping a 30 yo on a 9x8 when our young stars are still years away from being in their prime won't help us in the long run. I don't think I know more than you? I'm just a fan as well. It is a fact huggy + EP are about 4 years away from entering their prime though. Miller will be 34 at that time is also a fact. Every young guy on the team will have been paid by then, Some will be entering their big time contract and we will all point to the massive Miller deal realizing that money could have been used for 2/3 bridge deals for guys coming off ELCs. Miller is a player peaking in his prime in the right situation. He will be moved before the TDL if we listen to what JR says

 

 

If it weren't for the team's development timeline I would be for resigning Miller. He is a special talent. As you outlined his age doesn't align with the core hitting their peak years. If I was to bet on any player being able to extend his ppg production it would be Miller. The problem is that is more risk than this org can handle. Especially after trading for OEL. My biggest issue is the duration of any new deal with JT.  

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Yeah I've heard this before and don't believe in this way of thinking at all. Could you imagine if NHL teams based their windows on their goalie contracts? Everyone's windows would be 2-3 years in most cases and the league would be piss poor. In reality you plan on either re-signing your goalie or replacing them ... obviously. It doesn't stop you from planning to have the best team you can because you don't have a top goalie signed for 8 years. Purposely deciding you can't compete in 4 years because you don't have a goalie signed is like self mutilation.

 

Most good goalies have incentive to re-sign with their teams as there aren't a lot of starting goalie jobs available, and they also have been the center of the team's commitments for years. There is loyalty and security there.

You mean like how we had Markstrom in his prime and let him walk? 

[Jester13]

23 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Demko is currently on an excellent value contract right through his prime (26-30)

Hughes is on a great contract too.

It’s either all in right now (and four four years) or tear it back to the septic tank and rebuild.  IMHAO It’s stupid to keep finishing in the middle.  

Goalies can play high-level hockey well into their 30s, and Hughes is, what, 23yo? 24yo? (Just checked: 22yo). Just going for it when we're not built properly to succeed is exactly why we keep ending up in the middle. 

[stawns]

2 hours ago, grandmaster said:

It’s also negotiations. Both sides want the best deal they can get.

Must be tiring have to move goal posts around so much

[Mustard Tiger]

33 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Kind of hard to explain that one away....I mean, the same standards apply to our "core" players who won't be in their prime "until" they're 27-28 to JT, who is 29.  

 

Cheers, the season can't come fast enough...I totally agree on that point. 

 

And look, I'm a realist...JT is quite possibly going. But that's not a for sure/fact and so I can still hope he doesn't and my experience in life tells me negotiations can be far apart but come closer together. Especially as time goes on and the reality of the situation starts to change the landscape a bit.

 

(I have a little JT spirit in me....I'm all in/emotional and make no apologies for that)   *slams the gate and drops an f bomb on her way out.....

It will be interesting to see how everything plays out that's for sure. I'm going to do my best to block most local media as we know exactly what they will do. Try to create fake rumors and drama around the team. Not listing to any of that crap lol.

 

Wonder if drance and all them understand nearly all 32 teams have a star pending UFA? It take two to tango and when everyone is in our situation  along with everyone having no cap how do you force any move right this second like they all think needs to happen. I'm doing what JR says as well. As the deadline approaches he either signs a friendly deal or he makes his millions elsewhere..

 

Personally I would go as far as in the 7's for 6 years but I'm kinda capped out there. I think 8 years shouldn't even be an option for anyone honestly. That's a long time. Seems like Miller sees himself in the 9x8 range maybe? That's just too much for me. We are still making the playoffs regardless of the outcome 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Mustard Tiger said:

I'm right there with you in being one of the most optimistic fans on these boards! Keeping a 30 yo on a 9x8 when our young stars are still years away from being in their prime won't help us in the long run. I don't think I know more than you? I'm just a fan as well. It is a fact huggy + EP are about 4 years away from entering their prime though. Miller will be 34 at that time is also a fact. Every young guy on the team will have been paid by then, Some will be entering their big time contract and we will all point to the massive Miller deal realizing that money could have been used for 2/3 bridge deals for guys coming off ELCs. Miller is a player peaking in his prime in the right situation. He will be moved before the TDL if we listen to what JR says

 

 

You do realize that Huggy and Demko have current contracts that take them to UFA status in 4 to 5 years right?  What guarantee do you have that they re-sign in Vancouver if we are to trade our best player for picks and prospects?  And some are even okay if he walks away for free.  It's nice to project that we will be in our cup window in 4 years so we don't need to re-sign a 30 year old Miller, but people need to understand there will be no cup window if Huggy and Demko walk as a UFA.  And there is no guarantee that Petey will re-sign to a long term extension in 2 years if Miller is gone and he feels we are not going to be a cup contender.  Petey is on the record as saying he wants to play on a winning team.  He took a short term deal for a reason.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Back to regular planned viewing................

 

We certainly have some "IF's" but, IMO, we are very close to having a contending team, and "IF" Jimmy Rutherford and Alvin can find away to keep Miller, Horvat and Pettersson all on the team, without blowing the rest up, I think we are very close to having a top 10 team.

 

Certainly Myers $6,000,000 off the books would help, but what does it cost for a replacement? Pearson's contract is coming up, and shaves off $3,250,000 + , but he provides a heavy body, and a consistency to the team. Dickenson contract is still 2 years away, and has been pretty well useless. Collectively, these 3 players account for $11,250,000 and are probably the players that will have to be moved to accommodate the younger contracts that will be coming up..............namely Podkolzin, and Pettersson.

 

So where does the money come to keep Miller, Kuzmenko, Hoglander and Horvat?..................IMO, we need 3 to 4 million extra to keep both..........where does it come from?

 

Answer............keep Hoglander and move Garland, and hope Kuzmenko and Hoglander  do not move the needle too far

 

IMO, if Rutherford and Alvin can sort that mess out, we are very close to being the team we want.....................oh, yeh...............and we still need that good, sound RHD!

Answer, keep Hoglander, move Boeser

[Mustard Tiger]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You do realize that Huggy and Demko have current contracts that take them to UFA status in 4 to 5 years right?  What guarantee do you have that they re-sign in Vancouver if we are to trade our best player for picks and prospects?  And some are even okay if he walks away for free.  It's nice to project that we will be in our cup window in 4 years so we don't need to re-sign a 30 year old Miller, but people need to understand there will be no cup window if Huggy and Demko walk as a UFA.  And there is no guarantee that Petey will re-sign to a long term extension in 2 years if Miller is gone and he feels we are not going to be a cup contender.  Petey is on the record as saying he wants to play on a winning team.  He took a short term deal for a reason.

Yup teams have never signed guys post ELC to any term contracts and signed them again once that ran out. EP is an RFA, We took huggy on a lower dollar so he could have prime term years to maximize having two big deals in his career. What's the problem? 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Mustard Tiger