How Would You Feel if the Canucks decide to completely bottom out?

[EP Phone Home]

Yes if ownership took tips from John McCaw Jr. and stayed out of hockey operations like he should’ve allowed Trevor FULL autonomy to rebuild this team properly. We have seen how impatient Francesco can be and cut corners. He must acknowledge the Tampa/LA rebuild model and stick to it. Can’t be having his fingers all over his toy or we really are doomed to repeat history. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by EP Phone Home

[EternalCanuckFan]

I will always have an affection for the Canucks as the team of my hometown so if they decide to start a rebuild, then that's fine by me.  There's no guarantee that a rebuild will lead to better success so I think that's very much up for debate, but having that debate is part of the fun of being a fan.  It's of course more fun when a team is doing well overall or has a lot of promise.  If the team does go into a rebuild, then it will suck to likely have to endure more years of poor on ice product, but IMHO, it's just part of being a fan of a team.

 

Canucks tickets have been quite expensive for a long time so if there is a period of decline in interest with corresponding decline in ticket prices, then that might be a good opportunity for the team to cultivate a new generation of fans with more affordable access to live games.

At this point of the season, I'm open to seeing the team "right the ship" on it owns but since many of the problems aren't unique to this season, I'm not exactly optimistic about that happening.  As a result, I'm definitely pro-change to try and get new perspectives into the organization whether that is at the management or coaching level.  Clearly something is off with the way the team has been constructed and the way it is being deployed.  Morale among the players is also clearly very low too which is exacerbating problems.

 

Thomas Drance has been pointing at the Canucks D core as the main problem, and while there are certainly important problems with the D core, I personally don't think they are near as bad as a group as they have been to this point of the season.  Still, it seems like there is a disconnect between all levels of the organization right now:  ownership, management, coaching and the players, which is affecting the maximization of the collective ability of the assembled team.  Even with the Canucks' deficiencies, the team doesn't even look like it's competing in many of their games and any little mistake ends up snowballing into a disaster.  It really feels like the existing management and coaching personnel are simply out of ideas about how to maximize that collective ability, even with notable deficiencies.

[rekker]

All for it. But it would be pointless unless veteran, proven, hockey men are running the ship. Also, Aqua has to let them make decisions and  he sticks to building condos. 

[Tortorella's Rant]

I'm already not watching this display so do as you will. 

[GB5]

1 hour ago, whcanuck said:

If tomorrow Aqua said “you know what, to heck with this, Green & JB are fired, we’re going to blow up the entire roster, sell off assets, and completely rebuild this thing from the ground up,” what would you guys think?

Certainly on board for a new GM and coach as well as team president. Perhaps a soft rebuild once a new GM is instilled.

 

I'm not really certain what the best timing for this would be though.

 

Do you do this immediately or wait until the end of season with the caveat that Benning cannot make trades?

 

I would probably wait until the end of season for the GM when more personal are available but let Green go asap and instill an interim coach. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by GB5

[Eddie]

I'd be onboard - huge talents like Wright and Bedard are good points to rebuild the rebuild of the retool. 

 

I would pause my involvement with the team on a regular basis for a few year tho - after only missing a handful of games over the last 15 years and being a season ticket holder for over half of those I don't want to suffer through another period of let downs, massive losing streaks, failed trades, lottery misses, and humiliation. There are better uses of my time.

 

I'd also like to add that i really don't think full rebuild is the way to go this time - we have some good pieces with long careers ahead of them - its just making some maybe hard decisions to build a better balanced team and waiting for some bad contracts to come off the books to get it right with some of this core.

[Petey Castiglione]

I would rather see a coaching change, and then a GM change than to strip it down and rebuild.  There's no guarantee with the draft, especially since we have never had a 1stOA.

 

IMO we need more of a retool.  Using the LAK as an example before their 2 cups, they had a core of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick and to a lessor extent Brown.  They traded young prospects/picks for Carter and later on Richards and went on a historic run on the way to their first cup.  They also had a veteran coach in Sutter (iirc).

 

Now this version of the Canucks; Petey, Hughes, Demko.  2nd teir, Boeser, Horvat, Podz, Hogs, OEL, Miller.

I think our core is just as strong, (though Kopitar > Petey at this stage).  We need a competent GM to appropriately surround the core with support players (ie. PK players) and a Coach that know's how to get the best out of our skill players with the right system.

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, Petey Castiglione said:

I would rather see a coaching change, and then a GM change than to strip it down and rebuild.  There's no guarantee with the draft, especially since we have never had a 1stOA.

 

IMO we need more of a retool.  Using the LAK as an example before their 2 cups, they had a core of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick and to a lessor extent Brown.  They traded young prospects/picks for Carter and later on Richards and went on a historic run on the way to their first cup.  They also had a veteran coach in Sutter (iirc).

 

Now this version of the Canucks; Petey, Hughes, Demko.  2nd teir, Boeser, Horvat, Podz, Hogs, OEL, Miller.

I think our core is just as strong, (though Kopitar > Petey at this stage).  We need a competent GM to appropriately surround the core with support players (ie. PK players) and a Coach that know's how to get the best out of our skill players with the right system.

Big difference between keeping a leadership group that's won multiple cups and a group that hasn't had any success.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

I strongly felt after we had drafted Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes that we would be a playoff contender in the early 2020s and cup contenders in the mid-2020s. This season has changed that vision and it's not as realistic anymore.

[Petey Castiglione]

Just now, King Heffy said:

Big difference between keeping a leadership group that's won multiple cups and a group that hasn't had any success.

To be fair, that leadership group had not won a cup.  Carter and Richards had their run in Philly to the Stanley cup finals.  Philly blew it up and haven't had much success since.  LAK retooled and won 2 cups.

[BoKnows]

I'm okay with rebuilding the rebuild.

[BarnBurner]

1 hour ago, RU SERIOUS said:

No doubt that Green and most of the Asst coaches must be immediately terminated with Jim B.   As for the players, there are a few pieces worth hanging onto for sure, but generally speaking the team needs to be disected and rebuilt as it's fairly obvious after 8'1/2 years that this team is a mish-mash of incompatible players, who individullay can play their instruments but together as an orchestra sound like my old 1980's Lada on cold winters day.

Fair enough, but who's supposedly conducting the orchestra? In my opinion, whoever it is, that's their responsibility to bring out the best possible result. Obviously they aren't producing it, or more than likely, not even capable of getting the result. 

[IBatch]

31 minutes ago, Petey Castiglione said:

To be fair, that leadership group had not won a cup.  Carter and Richards had their run in Philly to the Stanley cup finals.  Philly blew it up and haven't had much success since.  LAK retooled and won 2 cups.

Personally feel LA winning two cups gave the rest of the leagues fans too much hope.   One time is luck maybe ... twice ... well not luck even if they missed the show entirely inbetween and were never a top team.  Making the playoffs under the cap era ... anything can happen and that's a pretty massive carrot.   

[nergish]

Totally fine with it. 

 

If we've determined that EP40 is more of a Nugent-Hopkins like complementary player and not a Franchise guy, then we are honestly still rebuilding anyways.

I'd start fielding offers on anybody not named Demko, Horvat, or Hughes. OEL isn't going anywhere, so that's our core-4 right there.

 

Not that I think Shane Wright is some game-changing generational player, but I'd much rather make a big splash to grab 1st OA and build around somebody with a profile like Wright. RH potential 1st line centre with great defensive awareness. It would be like building around a young Patrice Bergeron.
 

He'd probably score at the same pace Pettersson is right now as an 18-year old rookie, and can even play 3C in a pinch.

 

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Personally feel LA winning two cups gave the rest of the leagues fans too much hope.   One time is luck maybe ... twice ... well not luck even if they missed the show entirely inbetween and were never a top team.  Making the playoffs under the cap era ... anything can happen and that's a pretty massive carrot.   

I can't recall them running into any significant injuries (to the except more than one major player was out of their lineup in the playoffs for a while).  An element of luck is often required for post-season success (though when you are the tend dishing out the hits far more than receiving hits, you tend to give the other team injuries over time rather than the other way around).

[Petey Castiglione]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Personally feel LA winning two cups gave the rest of the leagues fans too much hope.   One time is luck maybe ... twice ... well not luck even if they missed the show entirely inbetween and were never a top team.  Making the playoffs under the cap era ... anything can happen and that's a pretty massive carrot.   

I think you're right that under the cap era, anything can happen.  Who would've though Ovi and the Caps would ever get over the hump.  STL going from worst record in the league in December to Stanley cup champs,  2 back to back champions (TBL/Pens), LA win's 2 cups in 3 years.  

 

I like to hope that if the Caps and STL can win, so can the Canucks.  Having the right people in place for management and coaching is a different story though.

[Ghostsof1915]

The problem is I don't see Benning hiring another coach, getting let go. Then another GM wants to put their guy in.

The only way that works is they fire Green/Baumer/King. Appoint Shaw as interm head coach to finish the season, let him hire the assistants. Keep Clark as well.

Or they dismiss Benning/Weisbrod/Green/Baumer/King, Chris Gear is interm GM, Shaw is interm head coach, Clark stays.

The team sees if a coaching change helps anything. Then you get a head start on choosing the right GM/President/Coach. 

 

[Phil_314]

Would tune out (already don't watch full games), and would get popcorn to see what a wreck they would become.

[Maginator]

I'd be absolutely furious...

 

But the assets we could get for Demko, Hughes, Pettersson, Bo, etc. Would be insane.

[Provost]

5 hours ago, whcanuck said:

If tomorrow Aqua said “you know what, to heck with this, Green & JB are fired, we’re going to blow up the entire roster, sell off assets, and completely rebuild this thing from the ground up,” what would you guys think?

"Decide" to bottom out?  We HAVE bottomed out without deciding it.

If we traded a bunch of assets we are almost assured to rise in the standings as there isn't much room to go down.

Any moves sending out assets is probably going to mean taking on some money in return so those will be actual NHL players for our roster in addition to the picks and prospects that would be the main return.  Pretty much any random assembly of NHLers is going to do as well as our current roster.  The teams worse than us mostly are spending way less money.

If they traded a bunch of Miller, Horvat, Pearson, Myers, Boeser, Dickenson, Hamonic, Chiasson, Dowling, Highmore, Hunt, Burroughs, and Lammiko and brought back tough to play against players as roster placeholders for the rest of the season AND also had a bunch of blue chip prospects and high picks... I wouldn't complain.

Then going into next season we have all the cap space in the world and a bunch of assets we could keep or flip for other players.