Right or wrong, can Horvat now lead this team?

[NHL97OneTimer]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks-culture-problem-drama-leaders

 

This is being reported in the media who may have the inside scoop.  Perhaps it's not completely true, but it sure makes a whole lot of sense with what's going on right now.  We've ranted about GMs, Coaches, coaching systems and underperforming players, but what about culture?  When Tanev, Markstrom and Edler left I knew that would officially change the guard over.  I knew we'd miss their leadership but I would not have predicted that it would lead to such a gap that factions would take place.  It has me wondering if the Sedins can step in, but regardless, here's the question (with the assumption that the report is true):

 

Bo Horvat is the leader, but right or wrong, this article suggests he's lost the room almost completely.  Do the Canucks trade our Captain to provide more cohesion in the group or do they move those who sought to create the division in the room while leaving Horvat as a likely ineffective Captain moving forward?

 

Either way, there's no easy way forward.  Tough stuff, I don't want to see Horvat being moved and would rather see him succeed as Captain.  

[Outsiders]

Horvat isn't in my good books right now. I've always liked the clutch factor with him showing up in big moments. 

 

With that being said, in my opinion he's always been to soft for my liking. 

 

After having Henrik as captain and how Horvat was groomed, I knew it was always going to be turn and skate away with Horvat. 

 

As soon as I saw Podzilla get decked by McNabb and Horvat saw and skated away he completely lost my respect. I might add OEL the furthest player on the ice came charging in and stuck up for Podz. 0 career fights. Thats someone that understands the meaning of being a leader. 

 

You don't turn away from a teammate period and especially not a rookie. 

 

Not sure how some of these players were raised but when the going gets tough you don't roll over and die. You double down and find a way. 

 

Horvat is more than capable of throwing a big hit or taking a fight to show he cares. Show some pride and show some heart. Call a players only meeting. 

 

That is my problem with Bo, is he seems to be content with losing and accepts it. Until he shows some emotion out there I will always question him

 

Again, good clutch player, but I don't think he's a true captain. 

 

He seems to be out there just for the paycheque 

 

 

EDIT - If the rift with Miller is true its really sad. Why would Horvat care if Miller is stepping up to take some pressure off. He's an assistant after all. These guys get there feelings hurt too easily. Maybe if Horvat called it like it is and commanded respect he'd get it. The reason guys gravitate towards Miller is he's emotional and shows he cares. Again, Horvat seems to accept losing.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Outsiders

[Curmudgeon]

Bo could fetch a rather substantial return from anybody looking for a strong second line centre. On a good team he would be awesome because he wouldn't be expected to lead, and the one thing about leadership that most people fail to grasp is that leadership requires followership. If nobody follows, then the leader isn't. If his teammates have tuned him out, he's done. Hand the keys to OEL and be done with it.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Curmudgeon

[Coconuts]

Of course he can, but "leadership" and him "leading" is going to be perceived differently by everyone. People have different expectations of what makes a captain too, which further complicates things. Some people would prefer a brash, heart on your sleeve sort of bit. Some folks expect rushing into scrums with the gloves off or hacking at someone's leg. Some prefer the calm demeanor, the staying level. You can dive into it further when you consider what older fans may have gotten from various other captains throughout the decades, and how what they've had impacts what they want or expect despite the gradual shift away from what hockey used to be. 

 

Bo needs to be better, the whole team needs to be better. Yes, even the players like Miller who've produced or looked better at times. Can Bo lead a team? Sure, but at the end of the day he's still one member of said team, and they're going to get themselves out of this rut as a team or they won't do it at all. He's the captain and there's a burden that comes with that in team sports, but I question how much some folks expect that burden to be or what they expect it to look like. 

 

It's an ugly season, the guys are demoralized, they hate losing even if it doesn't look like it to some folks. Tensions are gonna flare, division and bitterness will happen. Very few saw our season going this poorly, and some of those who did expect it are likely of the ilk that get their rocks off on being right about their debbie downer predictions and expectations. 

 

Hopefully ownership does something sooner than later, because having the hammer finally drop and usher in change would likely go a long way towards smoothing over some of the tensions in the locker room. Things are bleak and hopeless right now, and if it gets to us as fans it's undoubtedly worse for players, staff, and management. We'll probably continue to lose more than we win, but the sooner change comes and the sooner a new voice is in the room the sooner we can hopefully begin to put this garbage start behind us and work towards a better culture for next season. 

[CanuckleHorse]

Bo is not the problem the problem is giving the puck up in our zone like perfect passes to the other team and giving it up when we are hemming the other team in their zone maybe we could get some momentum on our side I seen Miller do this 4 times in a game recently.

ps: it was the Chicago game and each turnover killed our momentum!

Edited November 26, 2021 by CanuckleHorse

[Alienhuggyflow]

4 hours ago, Outsiders said:

Horvat isn't in my good books right now. I've always liked the clutch factor with him showing up in big moments. 

 

With that being said, in my opinion he's always been to soft for my liking. 

 

After having Henrik as captain and how Horvat was groomed, I knew it was always going to be turn and skate away with Horvat. 

 

As soon as I saw Podzilla get decked by McNabb and Horvat saw and skated away he completely lost my respect. I might add OEL the furthest player on the ice came charging in and stuck up for Podz. 0 career fights. Thats someone that understands the meaning of being a leader. 

 

You don't turn away from a teammate period and especially not a rookie. 

 

Not sure how some of these players were raised but when the going gets tough you don't roll over and die. You double down and find a way. 

 

Horvat is more than capable of throwing a big hit or taking a fight to show he cares. Show some pride and show some heart. Call a players only meeting. 

 

That is my problem with Bo, is he seems to be content with losing and accepts it. Until he shows some emotion out there I will always question him

 

Again, good clutch player, but I don't think he's a true captain. 

 

He seems to be out there just for the paycheque 

 

 

EDIT - If the rift with Miller is true its really sad. Why would Horvat care if Miller is stepping up to take some pressure off. He's an assistant after all. These guys get there feelings hurt too easily. Maybe if Horvat called it like it is and commanded respect he'd get it. The reason guys gravitate towards Miller is he's emotional and shows he cares. Again, Horvat seems to accept losing.

That article sounds like some game of thrones drama lol.

I am probably in the minority but I think JT should be staying of the two. He's more productive, more of a leader and is only 2 years older and according to his agent doesn't want out. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets moved but don't think it's the right choice.

 

Horvat would get a great return and JT signs longterm and becomes the captain. FWIW, I've felt that way since covid struck the team and JT spoke up.

[You Mad Bro?]

As much as I liked what Benning did this off season. It doesn’t make up for his completely disastrous 2020 off season. That looks to have broken this team.
 

I was on the fire Green train last year, now I think we gotta clean house of all the brass.

 

Now with the reported split in the locker room between Horvat and Miller… just so depressing. What has happened to this team. Can’t believe this but honestly I’d rather go with Miller. Horvats soft quiet turn the other cheek pc style of leading is not my style at all. Millers no BS call it how it is dropping F bombs is right up my alley. Reminds me of Iginla. 
 

I guess we gotta wait and see what happens to this dumpster fire. Life as a Canucks fan eh

[vannuck59]

7 minutes ago, You Mad Bro? said:

As much as I liked what Benning did this off season. It doesn’t make up for his completely disastrous 2020 off season. That looks to have broken this team.
 

I was on the fire Green train last year, now I think we gotta clean house of all the brass.

 

Now with the reported split in the locker room between Horvat and Miller… just so depressing. What has happened to this team. Can’t believe this but honestly I’d rather go with Miller. Horvats soft quiet turn the other cheek pc style of leading is not my style at all. Millers no BS call it how it is dropping F bombs is right up my alley. Reminds me of Iginla. 
 

I guess we gotta wait and see what happens to this dumpster fire. Life as a Canucks fan eh

I agree Benning screwed up the team after the Bubble season.

 

• Did not sign Tanev there best D man and a leader in the room well respected.
• Did not sign Markstrom , Best goalie and a leader in the room good friends with Pettersson . could be major factor in his play so far.
• Did not sign Toffoli . Well liked in the room . a play driver
• Not resigning Edler another leader ,could have been a bottom pairing deman .

We seen this last year and now this year the team has no soul.

 

[D.B Cooper]

Horvat is a great player.  
He should be part of the leadership team 

BUT. 
He is no captain.  
Ive been complaining about him being captain for years because he is one of the most vanilla personalities around.  
The guy is far from inspiring on or off the ice. 
He plays like a total kitten. 
 

He is a total yes man for the team.  
Just reads off the script.     How is that supposed to get his teams emotions going?   

Bo is great, but he just doesn’t have enough fire to spark others.  
 

 

Having said all that, leadership comes from the top.   Green has no confidence and hasn’t shown they can trust him to lead them out of this.  
The guy straight up has to go.    It’s not going to get better until changes are made.  
 

[tas]

maybe the fans and media should learn a lesson from this and stop anointing players "future captain" the day they're drafted. 

[EddieVedder]

Hilarious how all you fans have bought into this made up story by that clown sekeres.  

 

[shiznak]

Ya’ll mad because Horvat didn’t stick up for Podkolzin, but what about the other times he stuck up for his teammates?

 

Pearson, Garland, Bärtschi, Stecher, Holtby?

 

Amongst the core group, Horvat would probably be the last guy I would trade.

[Ajax-]

If it's true,  Mills and Bo should close a door and sort it the &^@# out asap

[Jester13]

There has to be substance to these rumours, as they're piling up. 

 

I'm torn on the Miller/Bo debate. I love Miller's fire but worry he's too much of a hot head that rubs some players the wrong way. I love Mr. Captain Clutch, but he isn't showing he can lead this team and instead sulks and skates away from watching a young teammate getting roughed up. 

 

I have to think, find out where the young players put their allegiance and go with him and trade the other guy. 

 

I'm guessing Miller isn't in the good books with Hughes, Petey, and Brock. After watching Hughes and Miller in the penalty box not say a word to each other, it said a lot. I'm guessing Miller will be on the way out soon, unless these guys can find a way to sort out their differences and become a team again. I'm hoping it's the latter.

[-DLC-]

24 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I'm guessing Miller isn't in the good books with Hughes, Petey, and Brock. After watching Hughes and Miller in the penalty box not say a word to each other, it said a lot. I'm guessing Miller will be on the way out soon, unless these guys can find a way to sort out their differences and become a team again. I'm hoping it's the latter.

Here's the thing though.  I don't want some pissy ass (pardon my language, it's hockey talk) team that has their feelings hurt and their play affected because of that.  Put on your damn big boy pants and forget who's "leader" or not and get it done.  

 

Even IF Miller rubs these guys the wrong way they should show some appreciation in the fact that he was carrying them in some of the rough spots.  So he's abrasive...maybe they need some of that to rub off and bring it to their game?  Not sulk or pout.

 

This is all speculation but that's truly how I feel.  Sort it out and focus on the game, not on who's the most popular.  This isn't Survivor where you form allegiances...it's a hockey "team" and they're all on the same side.  If personalities clash, that's something you have to be mature about and get beyond for the greater good of the team.  You don't dump the guy who's your top point getter because he's rough around the edges.  Hockey needs guys who are rough around the edges, not fraternities.

 

I can't stand a couple of my coworkers but I'm professional enough to put my personal feelings aside to work with them as a productive team member and not bring my feelings into that.  I respect the job they do even if they're cliquey and immature.

 

But yeah...Sekeres?  Here we go again.   Guy LOVES to be the insider but his track record isn't great.  There's obvious big time frustration in the room...but does that subside if the guys other than Miller get going and produce?  It's not rocket science...teams vent and can lash out when they're in a skid.  

[grandmaster]

Miller has shown he is a leader, both on and off the ice. It’s time for Bo to be traded or dropped from the captaincy.

[Wolfgang Durst]

4 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Here's the thing though.  I don't want some pissy ass (pardon my language, it's hockey talk) team that has their feelings hurt and their play affected because of that.  Put on your damn big boy pants and forget who's "leader" or not and get it done.  

 

Even IF Miller rubs these guys the wrong way they should show some appreciation in the fact that he was carrying them in some of the rough spots.  So he's abrasive...maybe they need some of that to rub off and bring it to their game?  Not sulk or pout.

 

This is all speculation but that's truly how I feel.  Sort it out and focus on the game, not on who's the most popular.  This isn't Survivor where you form allegiances...it's a hockey "team" and they're all on the same side.  If personalities clash, that's something you have to be mature about and get beyond for the greater good of the team.  You don't dump the guy who's your top point getter because he's rough around the edges.  Hockey needs guys who are rough around the edges, not fraternities.

 

But yeah...Sekeres?  Here we go again.   Guy LOVES to be the insider but his track record isn't great.  There's obvious big time frustration in the room...but does that subside if the guys other than Miller get going and produce?

[Ghostsof1915]

Remember the days, when if the team was struggling. The players would take it upon themselves to have a private meeting. Air things out, and get back to playing as a group?

Oh, right that was when Linden was Captain. Sigh. 

[-DLC-]

Thing is, I love Bo and he has quietly led the team but that maybe is creating a culture of being a "quiet" team?  I'm ok with him staying captain but he should be happy a guy is stepping up to HELP HIM carry the load and not feel threatened by that.  If Miller wasn't carrying the team, sure....shut up and know your role.  But he is, and that deserves some consideration and respect.  

 

You have to be secure in your role and not involve drama when a strong personality steps in.  Work with them, not against them. 

 

If the issue is Miller being vocal and opposed to some of the coaching, maybe that's needed.  If the other guys are just yes men and doing what they're told....it isn't proving to be successful on the ice.  

 

Some guys want to play on a winning team.  Some guys hate to lose.  It's all aimed at the same goal but who's stepping up to get them there?

[Nucker 67]

6 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Miller has shown he is a leader, both on and off the ice. It’s time for Bo to be traded or dropped from the captaincy.

Horvat for a top pairing Dman or another #2C?

 

With Miller as captain, the Canucks will find their identity.