[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[kloubek]

Just now, Nave said:

I'm well aware of that. Would rather trade Boeser than Horvat... and I love Boeser. 

I agree. Bo's last couple of years have not been his best, but he's a better player than we've seen during that time. He's a leader, and helps us with draws. He also plays more physically, and is cost controlled for another year. 

 

Boeser is a great guy and a lot better player than some give him credit for. Yes, he has his faults like not a ton of speed, but when he's on, he's a solid scorer. But with a 7.5m qualifying offer, it might make it challenging to keep him at a good rate. If he's willing to negotiate fairly, I certainly would rather not ship him out but if he's going to try to squeeze every cent he can out of the team, we are better off moving him imo.

 

Obviously, return is a factor as well. If for some reason teams don't view Boeser as worth all that much but they'd give a King's ransom for Horvat, well... that changes things.

[Jester13]

5 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

To keep that centre depth, we’re going to need most of them to sign at discounts, if we hope to have the cap space available to surround that “spine” with the players we need, and (especially) upgrade the back end.

 

It’s not impossible, but it’s certainly been a while since Vancouver was a spot where players left significant money on the table, to help build toward contending.

 

I hope the new management is working hard behind the scenes. I was impressed by Emilie Castonguay and her comments regarding the value of communication and support between management and the players. Hopefully her experience as an agent is translating to her new role, and she’s already laying the groundwork for negotiations.
 

And the Sedins should be tasked with some outreach and “hearts and minds” work, with the players, selling them on a longterm vision. Somebody in the media recently suggested the twins should be wining and dining JT Miller right now, and trying to win him over to the idea of re-signing, and leaving money on the table, like many of the core players did in the Sedin era.
 

Millsy strikes me as a guy who wouldn’t necessarily chase max dollars, if he really gets his heart set on a team and a city, and we all know that Vancouver can be the best place in the world to play hockey, when things are going well (but not so much when we’re losing ). Maybe the twins can convince him (and Bo and Petey down the road) to focus on the larger picture, and how if everyone gives a little (on the contract demands), the whole team gets a lot (in terms of the overall competitiveness possible under the cap).

 

It’s going to be a tough sell. I’m certainly not expecting it. But if Miller re-signed at a discount, I could see Horvat and Pettersson following suit. Millsy has a lot of influence in that room and he could really set the tone for years to come.

 

But if he gets his mind set on max dollars and testing the market, there’s really no way to keep the group together, and afford the other additions that are needed. Re-signing Miller at market value just kicks off a chain of dominoes that ends in cap hell. But if he goes the other way, and leaves money on the table, it would likely set off a similar chain reaction of other guys taking discounted deals, when their extensions come due.

Well said, and I can't agree more. I think we're seeing more and more (Colorado) that players understand that if you want to contend for the cup every year, you better be signing team-friendly deals or else you're going to handicap your team. I also think Miller might sign for a very friendly deal. He loves the team, the city, etc., and he's the leader of this team whereas going elsewhere might see him as merely another player. He's loving his role here and I could easily see this new management group selling the core players on building a contender for years to come. Sign friendly deals and then get rid of dead weight in Poolman, Dickinson, and Chiasson. Then they can tinker next year and years after to keep becoming more competitive. 

[DeNiro]

Round and round the trade targets go where they’ll stop you never know…

[Boudrias]

9 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

In a flat cap era young players like Newhook, that are going to be contributing in a big way while still on their ELCs, are more valuable than ever before. If a team expects one of their prospects to be able to fill a top 6 or top 4 role while still on their ELC, they're not going to move them. Covid has turned the economics of the game on their head, thus making this the worst possible time to be trying to ship out a big ticket item like Miller. We're never going to get the type of return to make it worth our while.

How much would The Avs give up to win maybe 2 Cups? We will know by the TDL. My suspicion is quite a bit considering the age of their existing core. 2 Cups and they can start converting their vets for youth and have lots of nice pieces to d9 it with. So I can see them doing a deal with Vancouver. Wanna bet if the Canuck medical people have already looked at Byram’s medical info?  

[Nave]

13 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I agree. Bo's last couple of years have not been his best, but he's a better player than we've seen during that time. He's a leader, and helps us with draws. He also plays more physically, and is cost controlled for another year. 

 

Boeser is a great guy and a lot better player than some give him credit for. Yes, he has his faults like not a ton of speed, but when he's on, he's a solid scorer. But with a 7.5m qualifying offer, it might make it challenging to keep him at a good rate. If he's willing to negotiate fairly, I certainly would rather not ship him out but if he's going to try to squeeze every cent he can out of the team, we are better off moving him imo.

 

Obviously, return is a factor as well. If for some reason teams don't view Boeser as worth all that much but they'd give a King's ransom for Horvat, well... that changes things.

Boeser is definitely a better player than people give him credit for. Other teams see this too. He has a quick release, and is good at finding open space to unleash it. 
Problem is, he doesn't always have the speed to gain separation. Allvin and Rutherford have stated their intentions to make us a faster team clearly. It sucks cause Boeser is having a down season, which might mean we're selling low, but Horvat is cost controlled for another year and more consistent.  
A trade with New Jersey or Pittsburgh makes sense, because they have playmakers who can get the puck to Boeser, and may be willing to pay more because of that.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Nave

[Darius]

I dont know if you can move Horvat or Brock before you know if Miller would actually sign here.  Imagine the hole up front, and the overpayment that will be required in free agency to fill it,  if you move BB for a d man and then they cant come to terms with Miller and he walks.  Most of your top line is gone like that.

 

Thats why I think nothing will happen till off season.

 

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

4 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

How much would The Avs give up to win maybe 2 Cups? We will know by the TDL. My suspicion is quite a bit considering the age of their existing core. 2 Cups and they can start converting their vets for youth and have lots of nice pieces to d9 it with. So I can see them doing a deal with Vancouver. Wanna bet if the Canuck medical people have already looked at Byram’s medical info?  

I have my doubts that a team like the Aves are willing to go all in this at the expense of their future with the league the way it is right now. I understand that fans don't speak for management, but if you were to ask Ave fans what they would cough up for Miller, I think folks would be shocked at just how little they'd be willing to let go of 

[Nave]

28 minutes ago, Darius said:

I dont know if you can move Horvat or Brock before you know if Miller would actually sign here.  Imagine the hole up front, and the overpayment that will be required in free agency to fill it,  if you move BB for a d man and then they cant come to terms with Miller and he walks.  Most of your top line is gone like that.

 

Thats why I think nothing will happen till off season.

It might be wise to wait until the off-season. See what this team can do in a playoff push. 

[nergish]

If trading Horvat, any interest in signing Claude Giroux on July 1 to be 2C? 

Obviously not to a lengthy, or pricey deal...

[kloubek]

35 minutes ago, Darius said:

I dont know if you can move Horvat or Brock before you know if Miller would actually sign here.  Imagine the hole up front, and the overpayment that will be required in free agency to fill it,  if you move BB for a d man and then they cant come to terms with Miller and he walks.  Most of your top line is gone like that.

I agree, but it's not really about the "top line". Presumably, the offense we lose we gain in better defense, or more offensive defense. I think the exact issue is that we simply cannot lose 2 top centers. Somebody with skill needs to man the 2nd center position, and it ain't gonna be Lammiko.

[Darius]

3 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I agree, but it's not really about the "top line". Presumably, the offense we lose we gain in better defense, or more offensive defense. I think the exact issue is that we simply cannot lose 2 top centers. Somebody with skill needs to man the 2nd center position, and it ain't gonna be Lammiko.

i know its off topic in here, but this is why I dont want Marino if we move Brock (like the rumors suggest in the other thread). He provides zero offence. One goal this year and thats on a pretty good Pitts team.

 

I agree with you that we cant lose 2 top centers.  I also think trading Brock for a D man, then having Miller potentially walk to UFA or get traded next TDL for a lesser return (as he will be a rental at that point) can really back fire here.  Thats basically 2/3 of a legit number 1 NHL line gone.  I dont know what the return will be next TDL but I doubt it will make an immediate contribution like these guys do right now.

 

Wisest thing IMHO is wait till off season, see what they can do with Miller and then plan around that.  I cant see this management team fumbling on both Bo and Miller ....hopefully...

 

 

[70seven]

Horvat is here until the offseason at minimum.  More likely he’s dealt next deadline if at all.  I think a reasonable extension gets done.  He’ll be the 3C when they challenge for a cup, and a strong one at that.  No need to trade this player.  Just because he’s not JT Miller, does not mean he’s garbage, and likely won’t break the bank either. 

[Westcoastcanucks777]

8 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Boudreau said "(Miller) has taken over as the catalyst and leader..."

 

I think Bo's days might be numbered

 

 

Bye bye BoBo hello good defender?

[kloubek]

2 hours ago, 70seven said:

He’ll be the 3C when they challenge for a cup

I actually believe we have yet to see the best of Bo, and that he will remain our 2c, if not in position then in ice time.

 

...if he stays. I'm not sure what management's take is on him.

 

3 hours ago, Darius said:

this is why I dont want Marino if we move Brock (like the rumors suggest in the other thread). He provides zero offence. 

 

I cant see this management team fumbling on both Bo and Miller ....hopefully.

I don't think there's much of that risk. That would be akin to the Luongo Schneider debacle which I'm still sore about.

 

Marino wouldn't necessarily be my target either for what little I know about him, but it's not like he doesn't add assists. I feel we need a role player. If that's a gifted offensive guy, then fine. If it's a big, defensive star then I think I may prefer that. 

 

 

[Alflives]

31 minutes ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said:

Bye bye BoBo hello good defender?

BoHo?

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, 70seven said:

Horvat is here until the offseason at minimum.  More likely he’s dealt next deadline if at all.  I think a reasonable extension gets done.  He’ll be the 3C when they challenge for a cup, and a strong one at that.  No need to trade this player.  Just because he’s not JT Miller, does not mean he’s garbage, and likely won’t break the bank either. 

I think Bo also remains. 

 

 

[higgyfan]

17 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I think Bo also remains. 

 

 

For sure.  They have him playing on a line with Podz and Chia; neither of who score very much.  This team needs to

build a scoring 3rd line.  Podz will improve, but they still need someone that can score on the other W.  Maybe give

Motte a try.

[48MPHSlapShot]

4 hours ago, nergish said:

If trading Horvat, any interest in signing Claude Giroux on July 1 to be 2C? 

Obviously not to a lengthy, or pricey deal...

Might be worth a shot as a short term solution, although I like the idea of giving Pettersson one of the top two lines and finding a really strong defensive center for the third line, since we don't have a strong defensive center outside of Lammikko.

[N4ZZY]

On 3/10/2022 at 7:23 PM, higgyfan said:

For sure.  They have him playing on a line with Podz and Chia; neither of who score very much.  This team needs to

build a scoring 3rd line.  Podz will improve, but they still need someone that can score on the other W.  Maybe give

Motte a try.

Yeah. My prediction is that Bo and management work out a deal. 6.5 over 8 years. That brings Horvat to 34 years old. He could at that time still be a serviceable depth player, and wouldn’t cost too much to resign at that time, I don’t think. And he’d entering into the latter stages of his career. 

 

[teepain]

Horvat

to NYR

Schneider + 1st