[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[R3aL]

3 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

He endured the Willie Desjardins and Travis Green years while being a professional. And now it's likely we won't make the playoffs again and there will be some changes.

 

If he wants to move on, I don't blame him one bit.

I don’t either. But how Canuck’s would it be if he gets hurt and we can’t even move him for a good return.

[R3aL]

26 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

A figurehead for media and a mentor is what Rutherford is. Some media still want to create something and act like Rutherford is making all the calls. Alvin is the man.

We will see 

[cripplereh]

17 minutes ago, R3aL said:

I don’t either. But how Canuck’s would it be if he gets hurt and we can’t even move him for a good return.

People were saying that about Miller. 

 

Nothing we can do except sit him till he is traded and no player wants that.  

 

 

What if he gets COVID-19 and can't play,what if he gets hit by a car?

  

 

There are to many what if's so just hope everything stays the same and we trade or sign him.

[R3aL]

1 minute ago, cripplereh said:

People were saying that about Miller. 

 

Nothing we can do except sit him till he is traded and no player wants that.  

 

 

What if he gets COVID-19 and can't play,what if he gets hit by a car?

  

 

There are to many what if's so just hope everything stays the same and we trade or sign him.

Ima hoping and ima praying 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

37 minutes ago, R3aL said:

We will see 

well at some point I think it will be evident but JR as a mentor is not the worst thing. He is getting a lot of heat right now for repeating his message about the team's coaching and style but he has been quite transparent and not changed course in vision since coming to Vancouver even though a lot of fans are upset because it doesn't mean good things for Bruce.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

well at some point I think it will be evident but JR as a mentor is not the worst thing. He is getting a lot of heat right now for repeating his message about the team's coaching and style but he has been quite transparent and not changed course in vision since coming to Vancouver even though a lot of fans are upset because it doesn't mean good things for Bruce.

Because it’s not JR’s vision.  Our owner sets the direction, and management makes moves based on that.  

[Mike Vanderhoek]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Because it’s not JR’s vision.  Our owner sets the direction, and management makes moves based on that.  

No, JR's vision from day one was the team needs better structure to be a successful team and one that can succeed come Playoff time. Remember you, me and everyone else thought the team was entering their Playoff pre-contending window this season and onwards, be lying if otherwise was said. The team was in a position after Bruce's success and eventually gave him the option on his initial deal for that second year but it was known the team had a different vision.

 

The owner is the owner, he can do as he pleases. This owner meddling or owner vision is a scapegoat that is over played and frankly tiring here. 

[R3aL]

11 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

well at some point I think it will be evident but JR as a mentor is not the worst thing. He is getting a lot of heat right now for repeating his message about the team's coaching and style but he has been quite transparent and not changed course in vision since coming to Vancouver even though a lot of fans are upset because it doesn't mean good things for Bruce.

Honestly mate I’ve been quite supportive of them.

 

But.

 

JT Miller signing is looking rough.

 

Their evaluation of prioritizing Miller over Horvat seems confusing.

 

They wanted to avoid having miller on an expiring contract / contract year but we’re okay doing that with Horvat? 
 

-

 

IF management has complete control of hockey ops decisions. If they didn’t want Bruce they could have hired a new coach I. The summer. Respectfully thanked Bruce for being a hero but going forward they have a specific style and team vision that doesn’t align with his style of coaching. 
 

But they didn’t. 
 

now what they are doing I. The media is dejecting him and pouring gasoline on a fire.

 

Bringing in Kuzmenko, doing the Bieksa honour, and the rest of their moves asides from losing our second round pick have been ok given the circumstance imo.

 

but I’m worried. What they do with JT miller and Bo are most important rn and they seem to be making a mess of it.

 

it’s still early but I’m nervous. Especially because JR trade record wasn’t great and they kinda failed in extended pits window. 
 

so ya I’m just nervous 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

No, JR's vision from day one was the team needs better structure to be a successful team and one that can succeed come Playoff time. Remember you, me and everyone else thought the team was entering their Playoff pre-contending window this season and onwards, be lying if otherwise was said. The team was in a position after Bruce's success and eventually gave him the option on his initial deal for that second year but it was known the team had a different vision.

 

The owner is the owner, he can do as he pleases. This owner meddling or owner vision is a scapegoat that is over played and frankly tiring here. 

JR has been very consistent in his view that our team was propped up be a great goalie.  The owner isn’t meddling in hockey ops.  He does set the direction though, which is to move forward, and not rebuild.  Gillis was successful at following that direction.  But since then it’s been a disaster.  

[Pbhatti00]

Any chance they get him to agree to trading him at the deadline for some good assets and then resigning with Van in summer? Might be a good play. 

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

Bo has all the leverage right now.

 

Hot start, pending UFA in the summer, and has been through so much losing with this club. He can simply play out the season and move on in the summer, and would likely make huge bank from a team.

 

Canucks management likely know that Bo and his party has all the bargaining power and are waiting to see if he tapers off before they negotiate again. I don't think Bo will sign. I was optimistic before the season began and if we had a competitive season, we had a shot. But no way in hell does Bo sign up to remain in mediocrity. He will move on from this team whether trade or walking in UFA.

[saucypass]

Let' say we fast forward to the end of the season, JTM finishes at just about PPG (80 points) and Horvat finishes either slightly above or slightly below (78-85 pts). How much is Bo signing for? Defensively better, a center, a faceoff beast, couple years younger but had a career year and is signing for less offensive production than what JTM produced (99 pts) at the time of signing his contract. Curious on any guesses as to what the AAV would be on that

[wai_lai416]

11 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I'm not sold on KK anyway, he's still young and the pedigree is there but he's been underwhelming and he's got all that term

that's what i've been saying.. 5mil for a guy that's trending 15 points/82.. that takes barely 500 faceoff.. i don't care if he's 22 23 or whatever he is.. he'll never produce enough to justify his contract.. 

[rekker]

54 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Bo has all the leverage right now.

 

Hot start, pending UFA in the summer, and has been through so much losing with this club. He can simply play out the season and move on in the summer, and would likely make huge bank from a team.

 

Canucks management likely know that Bo and his party has all the bargaining power and are waiting to see if he tapers off before they negotiate again. I don't think Bo will sign. I was optimistic before the season began and if we had a competitive season, we had a shot. But no way in hell does Bo sign up to remain in mediocrity. He will move on from this team whether trade or walking in UFA.

Yip. Bo has put in his time with this crap show of a franchise and has my full support if he decides to move on. He's a hell of a hockey player and young man. 

[70seven]

Just gonna go on a limb and say… Vancouver means a whole lot to Bo Horvat, regardless of current team success.  He and his family very much want to stay long term as they are very invested in local community.  It’s their home.  Money will be important, and I do think he does re-sign if Van comes reasonably close to the ask, given that there isn’t any C depth in the organization outside Bo and Petey, management will probably elect to keep their captain as no one will want to part with a top prospect C/D for a rental…. And Rightfully so

 

But why negotiate with a player on an early season hot streak when they haven’t shown this level of consistency yet in their veteran career?  Canucks aren’t making the playoffs. Wait until January, see where the team/Horvat are at instead of pretending we are signing Steven Stamkos…. All due respect to Horvat, he’s a strong 2C.  he is overrated right now… both Horvat and Miller are offensive players good at faceoffs, but neither have EVER been strong defensive/pk players, nor has Horvat ever been a consistent play driver….  Bo can crash the crease with above average hands and a very strong snap shot… but most of his points will come via PP.   currently Bo is shooting at 23%, his career aav hovers around 13%.  He has 10 ES points in 16 games.  Two whole ES assists in 16 games… Im sorry but he ain’t an 8M player.  I would cut ties personally if there is an offer with a younger C with a skill set to distribute the puck and drive quality chances… But I highly doubt this kind of player will be available… unless of course Bo continues to score… I say fools gold. 

 

[mll]

7 hours ago, Neutral said:

Carolina is quite good at drafting, I was really hope we would have signed one of their Assistant GM's to be our GM but we went the Pittsburgh way which was a meh for me and now we are stuck with them for a few years at least I would think.

 

If we can't sign Bo, I would like to see him traded to Carolina, they could afford to re sign him with Pacioretty, Gardiner and others coming off the books...I know the 2 players I mentioned are both on LTIR or IR currently.

 

From what I have briefly read it seems like Carolina could use a better #2C option than what they are using now and Carolina has Scott Morrow who should be target #1 for us. Could we get him and a 1st? Could we even get another prospect or player back if Horvat does a sign and trade to up the return for the Canucks?!? That is something the Canucks should seriously look at doing if they decide to move him, getting the MAX return is what the team needs to achieve in moving Horvat.

 

Not sure Carolina would offer the best return for Horvat.  It just doesn't seem to align with their approach.  As rental Waddel says it's not good business to give up much at the TDL because at the end of the day only 1 team wins.  

 

Carolina's AGM is Erik Tulsky - he was promoted under Dundon and is believed to be ear-marked as their next GM.  He comes from the analytics field.  He did quite a bit of work on ageing curves - he has Fs peak at around 26, slow decline to 30 and fall off a cliff after that.  

 

Waddell says he doesn't like signing deals to players in their late 20s because they are looking for 6-7 years and you know you'll end up paying for something you won't get.  Reason they didn't bother with deals for Trocheck or Niederreiter, Hamilton etc.   Horvat likely looking for 7-8 and not sure he would be willing to take 4-5 years when free agency is right around the corner.

 

Also got to wonder if they would consider him a C2 - even though he is better than what they have for now.  He's shooting at 25.5% - that's unlikely to be sustainable and puts a team at risk of considerably overpaying.  He puts up quite a bit of points on the PP but that's so dependent on setup and personnel - that's another risk.

 

Cam Charron who tracks micro-stats has only Aman creating less scoring chances per 60 with a pass than Horvat.  Hansen even says he is kind of wasted with goal scorers.  Carolina is so into analytics and would probably pick up that lack of playmaking and modest 5v5 contribution.

 

[Boudrias]

9 hours ago, 70seven said:

Just gonna go on a limb and say… Vancouver means a whole lot to Bo Horvat, regardless of current team success.  He and his family very much want to stay long term as they are very invested in local community.  It’s their home.  Money will be important, and I do think he does re-sign if Van comes reasonably close to the ask, given that there isn’t any C depth in the organization outside Bo and Petey, management will probably elect to keep their captain as no one will want to part with a top prospect C/D for a rental…. And Rightfully so

 

But why negotiate with a player on an early season hot streak when they haven’t shown this level of consistency yet in their veteran career?  Canucks aren’t making the playoffs. Wait until January, see where the team/Horvat are at instead of pretending we are signing Steven Stamkos…. All due respect to Horvat, he’s a strong 2C.  he is overrated right now… both Horvat and Miller are offensive players good at faceoffs, but neither have EVER been strong defensive/pk players, nor has Horvat ever been a consistent play driver….  Bo can crash the crease with above average hands and a very strong snap shot… but most of his points will come via PP.   currently Bo is shooting at 23%, his career aav hovers around 13%.  He has 10 ES points in 16 games.  Two whole ES assists in 16 games… Im sorry but he ain’t an 8M player.  I would cut ties personally if there is an offer with a younger C with a skill set to distribute the puck and drive quality chances… But I highly doubt this kind of player will be available… unless of course Bo continues to score… I say fools gold. 

 

I certainly hope that PA moves Miller and Boeser before Horvat. The question becomes whether Horvat wants to stay if the team takes a step back to get their CAP under control and move to more youth. If body language is any indicator it appears to me that Bo is not on board with whatever is being discussed. If Bo goes I see a complete tear down. 

[Noseforthenet]

13 hours ago, R3aL said:

Honestly mate I’ve been quite supportive of them.

 

But.

 

JT Miller signing is looking rough.

 

Their evaluation of prioritizing Miller over Horvat seems confusing.

 

They wanted to avoid having miller on an expiring contract / contract year but we’re okay doing that with Horvat? 
 

-

 

IF management has complete control of hockey ops decisions. If they didn’t want Bruce they could have hired a new coach I. The summer. Respectfully thanked Bruce for being a hero but going forward they have a specific style and team vision that doesn’t align with his style of coaching. 
 

But they didn’t. 
 

now what they are doing I. The media is dejecting him and pouring gasoline on a fire.

 

Bringing in Kuzmenko, doing the Bieksa honour, and the rest of their moves asides from losing our second round pick have been ok given the circumstance imo.

 

but I’m worried. What they do with JT miller and Bo are most important rn and they seem to be making a mess of it.

 

it’s still early but I’m nervous. Especially because JR trade record wasn’t great and they kinda failed in extended pits window. 
 

so ya I’m just nervous 

So right, here. Bo hasn't reached his peak, here. I do really like how JT Miller plays, but I'm not exactly convinced he's THE leader of this team. Bo is a Bergeron type player. They don't grow on trees. 

[86Viking]

11 hours ago, mll said:

 

Not sure Carolina would offer the best return for Horvat.  It just doesn't seem to align with their approach.  As rental Waddel says it's not good business to give up much at the TDL because at the end of the day only 1 team wins.  

 

Carolina's AGM is Erik Tulsky - he was promoted under Dundon and is believed to be ear-marked as their next GM.  He comes from the analytics field.  He did quite a bit of work on ageing curves - he has Fs peak at around 26, slow decline to 30 and fall off a cliff after that.  

 

Waddell says he doesn't like signing deals to players in their late 20s because they are looking for 6-7 years and you know you'll end up paying for something you won't get.  Reason they didn't bother with deals for Trocheck or Niederreiter, Hamilton etc.   Horvat likely looking for 7-8 and not sure he would be willing to take 4-5 years when free agency is right around the corner.

 

Also got to wonder if they would consider him a C2 - even though he is better than what they have for now.  He's shooting at 25.5% - that's unlikely to be sustainable and puts a team at risk of considerably overpaying.  He puts up quite a bit of points on the PP but that's so dependent on setup and personnel - that's another risk.

 

Cam Charron who tracks micro-stats has only Aman creating less scoring chances per 60 with a pass than Horvat.  Hansen even says he is kind of wasted with goal scorers.  Carolina is so into analytics and would probably pick up that lack of playmaking and modest 5v5 contribution.

 

Thanks for the insight! Even if Carolina only viewed Horvat as a rental would think Scott Morrow would be available for a good piece to add at the TDL to help the Hurricanes try to go deep into the playoffs. Horvat may be willing to sign for less term if say he wants to pull a Tavares and play for his Laffs or something.

 

Buffalo is too early to be into trading for Horvat as a rental, and with younger C's they may prefer to let them grow but they may also be willing to trade for Horvat if he came with an extension?

 

Colorado: Would they offer Newhook and a 1st? Even if they did I think we need to target a RHD if we trade a player with good value like Horvat.

 

 

[JayDangles]

15 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

No, JR's vision from day one was the team needs better structure to be a successful team and one that can succeed come Playoff time. Remember you, me and everyone else thought the team was entering their Playoff pre-contending window this season and onwards, be lying if otherwise was said. The team was in a position after Bruce's success and eventually gave him the option on his initial deal for that second year but it was known the team had a different vision.

 

The owner is the owner, he can do as he pleases. This owner meddling or owner vision is a scapegoat that is over played and frankly tiring here. 

His vision was also to improve the defense. Probably would have been in a much better position if JR had spent half as much time trying to improve this team as he did "improving" the front office.

Can't blame Bruce 1 bit for our shit defense and Yeo hired as an assistant.

Starting to think JR's vision was to tank this year, but they marketed it as a year for "unfinished business" so that when it did tank, which they knew it would... they would have Bruce as the scapegoat.