[PGT] Pittsburgh Penguins at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 04, 2021

[John.Tallhouse]

38 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

The only top 4 defensemen we have:

- Hughes
- OEL

Bottom pairing guys we have:
- Myers
- Poolman
- Hamonic
- Burroughs
- Schenn

Myers is a top 4 guy, can’t you tell by the way he concealed the puck last night. Top tier play. 

[longsuffering]

Just woke up and realized the nightmares I was having were actually real ....omg what a shtshow. Just skimmed the comments and most focus on Aquilini, Benning and coaches but what about the players themselves carrying some of the responsibility? I watched  #40 last night and if his name wasn't Pettersson and he was earning such a large salary would you even play him at all? Saw one good shot and one good defensive play but other than that he seemed to be drifting around like he was lost out there. Boeser wasn't much better... one shot, no hits... and Myers was a nightmare all on his own. What can you say about Dickinson and Poolman...yikes! At some point it comes down to the players regardless of the coaching or management.

 

[-DLC-]

30 minutes ago, ABNucksfan said:

Now look at those two teams. They are tearing it up and one or both may win a cup 

"may"

 

Uh, and as for this part

Quote

So basically you neglected to post when the teams won

I was following up to your comment, where YOU stated "when".   So I didn't feel the need to?

 

Quote

Look at the last 20 cup winners

I understood that to be most recent working backwards?   If you had a specific year in which "the last" was referenced, you neglected to post that.

 

My point being that you have to have patience with teams that tank because it isn't an immediate turn around.  And not all picks are hits, some are misses.  Tanking requires a whole lot of patience and I'm not sure many here have shown to have that trait.

[JeremyCuddles]

1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said:

There was a lot of Province writers that liked Gillis. I wouldn't be surprised if they're using their literary skills on CDC to use in maintaining Gillis as a hockey guru. 

I don't think Gillis is a guru by any means, but I think he did play a pretty big role in building around the good young pieces he inherited. Oddly enough I think a Benning/Gillis tandem would be a real good management group. Lol. Benning has done a great job of handling the scouting crew. Finding good talent, he has just been awful at signing and trading for supplementary talent. Something Gillis was amazing at and was crucial to the 2011 team being as good as it was. If only we had a Gillis alongside Benning we maybe would have a really good team here. We all complain about the NTCs but they allowed us to compete. He just fell flat on his face in the scouting and drafting department.

[Wolfgang Durst]

3 hours ago, -DLC- said:

TBL - They had a #1 & 2 .... 12 & 13 years ago.   In the past 10 years they've had one #3 and the rest are all out of the top 10

 

St. Louis - Highest pick in the past 10 years = #17 (this year)

 

Washington -  Highest pick in past 10 years = #11

 

Penguins - Highest pick in past 10 years was...Derrick Pouliot at #8!  (Sure you have Crosby and Malkin but that was 16 & 17 years ago...I don't know that his fanbase has given OUR #1 picks a fair shake yet!)

 

Chicago - Kane & Toews drafted 14 & 15 years ago / they have one top 3 pick in the last 10 years

 

LA - Their top picks were just acquired the past 3 years (highest being #3)...you have to go back 12+ years for their difference makers

 

Boston - Dougie Hamilton at #9 was the top pick in the past 10 years

 

So the point here being that top 3 picks don't provide immediate results...it can take years for them to develop and find the right chemistry/mix in a roster.  Some here just won't be able to withstand that I'm sure.

 

So we tank and collect picks and then what?....sit and wait for them to make a difference in a decade.  Our instant gratification fans don't have the stamina for that.  Our fanbase screams for change (which is fine, I'm ok with it and it's time to try something new that doesn't involve swapping bottom 6 in/out), but it could be years of suffering before we see the results that come with that.  I'm not sure this "I want it all and I want it now" fanbase we have here can exercise the patience for that.  I mean, many have called OUR top picks a bust already and it's been what....4 years since they were drafted? 

 

Which is why I advocate for a coaching change as a first step in turning things around, because we haven't given this roster enough of a chance.  Our bottom 6 has not been good enough for some time, and that's on Benning (to some degree).  But I also understand that you take a gamble at times on players and it's hit and miss.  Sad but true.  This isn't EA NHL where it's just say it and it happens.  But there's no denying he's put us in some tough positions and forced our hand.

 

Some of our players who ARE top picks need the fanbase to support them and booing impacts them more than anyone else.  Losing's tough enough on players, to have your fanbase kick you when you're down (which is what booing does), just seems counterproductive to me.  

 

Let's face it, Aquilini is stubborn and quite set in his ways....boo'ing fans likely isn't going to be the breaking point here  So that crap just lands on the players' shoulders.

 

Enough fans will still show up and support the team...the reason I do so is because I've learned to accept the things I can't control. and I love hockey.  Period. I feel that some of our fanbase (not all, we have some much smarter hockey minds than me) just love to be disruptive.  The late night Granville street drunken crowd mentality in this town of entitlement and instant gratification is definitely a factor.  A bunch of spoiled rich kids who equate money to success (rather than hard work).  The team's trying....when you're frustrated and it isn't working it's easy to get deflated at times (and it shows).

 

Just because some of us still support the boys doesn't mean we're idiots or that it's all roses and sunshine for us either.  But we're not turning on our team because we know it's likely not going to help in the here and now to throw them under the bus (and their jerseys on the ice).  And those who cry for tanking like it's a cure all don't understand how long those picks can take to produce results in the form of a SC.  Catch phrases snowball here and, for some anyways, it's more about being the loudest voice in the room.  The attention.  This idea that you "just draft all the players"  isn't a guarantee for instant success...far from it.  You have to build around them and that's where it gets tougher.

 

 

Deb, you're such a compelling and powerful voice on CDC. I find this truly adorable. I would like to comment on your last sentence of your post: that's exactly what Jim has been doing the last two years: building around players like Horvat, Pettersson, Hughes .... by trading two ! first round picks and adding players like JT Miller, Conor Garland and OEL.

The thing is, despite going all in by trading away two first round picks and spending up to the cap canucks are still at the bottom of the standings. That's unacceptable. I think it's fair to expect better results from this team - to be honest - much better results from this team.

[ABNucksfan]

5 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

Deb, you're such a compelling and powerful voice on CDC. I find this truly adorable. I would like to comment on your last sentence of your post: that's exactly what Jim has been doing the last two years: building around players like Horvat, Pettersson, Hughes .... by trading two ! first round picks and adding players like JT Miller, Conor Garland and OEL.

The thing is, despite going all in by trading away two first round picks and spending up to the cap canucks are still at the bottom of the standings. That's unacceptable. I think it's fair to expect better results from this team - to be honest - much better results from this team.

If benning would have bit the bullet 8 years ago and rebuilt. Maybe we would have some top 5 picks in our stable and would have a better team right now. Greed and incompetence has thwarted a true rebuild of this team and we are looking at the consequences of that right now on the ice… 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, ABNucksfan said:

If benning would have bit the bullet 8 years ago and rebuilt. Maybe we would have some top 5 picks in our stable and would have a better team right now. Greed and incompetence has thwarted a true rebuild of this team and we are looking at the consequences of that right now on the ice… 

whoa there cowpoke. Thats too simplified and revisionist. There was no way that was going to happen under Linden and having the Sedin's still be productive. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Maginator said:

Fair enough. I simply don't think Poolman is worthy of 2.5M, especially when there are cheaper options, who in my opinion are better.

 

Hamonic was a huge loss to start the year, but come on injuries are to be expected somewhere down the line. Good teams face adversity and come out on the other side with W's. They don't crumble. Our back end and bottom six just aren't good enough. That's my stance. 

Hamonic to me is a Benn like signing done before his prime.   Just a safe bet to make sure we have depth on the 3rd pairing for awhile.  

[Alflives]

13 minutes ago, JM_ said:

whoa there cowpoke. Thats too simplified and revisionist. There was no way that was going to happen under Linden and having the Sedin's still be productive. 

Didn’t we get 101 points in Benning’s first year?  We were still a very good team. 

[bishopshodan]

1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said:

There was a lot of Province writers that liked Gillis. I wouldn't be surprised if they're using their literary skills on CDC to use in maintaining Gillis as a hockey guru. 

Gillis is a smart cookie.

 

After us he was hired as a University Prof to teach Sports Law at UVic. Previously he had taught at Queens. 

https://thehockeynews.com/news/former-canucks-gm-mike-gillis-lands-job-teaching-university-course

[eeeeergh]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

Hard for anyone to look good when Nolan Baumgartner is there sabotaging the defence.

I mean, thats a completely reasonable take tbh. Definitely want to see how these guys look when we have new coaching. 

Both Schmidt and Tanev achieved god tier status when they left us and started playing under competent systems. 

If Hamonic and Myers end up being actual top 4 defensemen, and OEL starts playing to even how he played in Arizona, our defense suddenly looks pretty good. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, eeeeergh said:

The only top 4 defensemen we have:

- Hughes
- OEL

Bottom pairing guys we have:
- Myers
- Poolman
- Hamonic
- Burroughs
- Schenn

Myers and Hominic are middle pairing.  OEL/Myers 5 x 5 is just fine.   Poolman is a bottom pairing guy, and the rest depth guys.    We do lack legit top four, or more middle pairing guys.  

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Didn’t we get 101 points in Benning’s first year?  We were still a very good team. 

I miss the Sedins possession genius. Even when it was just eating minutes it was a joy to watch. But even with that gift we had people bitching 

 

My worry now is demoralizing the guys to the point where trade requests are made, or worse, they stop trying. Despite some noise to the contrary on here, the guys are still trying, at least until the inevitable point in the game comes where Baumer's static box collapses. 

[Just1CupB4IDie]

Did Garland get the 10 minute misconduct penalty for banging the bench with his stick?

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, longsuffering said:

Not Shaw... he is part of the problem... no sign that he brought any added value to the coaching this year.

Completely disagree. Hughes has been a lot better. When the forwards aren’t completely blowing it, the defense shows improvement in structure, however the personnel aren’t anywhere near being good enough to compete. Hughes, OEL, and Schenn serve exactly the purpose they’re intended to. 
 

With Green still at the helm of things and BumGardener still (inexplicably) in charge of the defense, seeing Shaw’s full influence isn’t easy. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Myers and Hominic are middle pairing.  OEL/Myers 5 x 5 is just fine.   Poolman is a bottom pairing guy, and the rest depth guys.    We do lack legit top four, or more middle pairing guys.  

Our PP to PK ratio stinks.  We are, as you point out, fine when playing at evens.  

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

Think of it like drifferent stages.

An aggressive and one passive.

Very few can adapt and do both equally as good. 

Better yet, think outside your bubble. 

It is not difficult to realize you need to adapt and make necessary changes when it is needed. That is the same in every/any facet of a job or even life in general.

 

You know you're actually improving my point right?

You're pretty much saying Gillis is a one-trick pony not meant for drafting. Drafting is literally part of every GM's job. Building a future for a team is literally part of a GM's job.

 

So yeah he's such an intelligent guy right? Stop contradicting yourself.

 

 

[Bathgate]

1 hour ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

What do you mean Gillis wasn't meant to draft a new core as if its not his duty?

 

You need to know when the time is up for the core as a GM and make trades to invest in the future.

That's literally what makes a good GM is knowing when to propose a larger change with the team because the formula isn't working anymore. 

The two consecutive first round exits should've been an eye-opener.

 

Kesler was literally begging to leave and probably could've fetched more in terms of a higher pick/propects had he been traded even a year earlier when Gillis was in charge.

I'm not saying he should sell off then entire core but he could've made some smart moves and taken advantage of it. He made the Schneider/Horvat trade but he realized he should be making those types of bold moves too late in his tenure.

He could've made the necessary transactions when players were in high demand to fetch more picks in higher positions but he stuck to the same old stale formula. That's entirely his fault.

My memory was the Sedins, could not trade them at $14M cap hit, therefore not finishing low enough for impact players.

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Gillis is a smart cookie.

 

After us he was hired as a University Prof to teach Sports Law at UVic. Previously he had taught at Queens. 

https://thehockeynews.com/news/former-canucks-gm-mike-gillis-lands-job-teaching-university-course

Did he teach at Queens?  Or get his degree....Think the latter. 

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

1 minute ago, Bathgate said:

My memory was the Sedins, could not trade them at $14M cap hit, therefore not finishing low enough for impact players.

Don't necessarily need to trade the Sedins specifically.

You could make changes earlier when it is needed though.

We had good pieces like Bieksa, Burr, Kesler...etc. who Benning (not Gillis) ended up trading and way too late. 

 

Also, I'm not saying to trade all of them but as a GM you should be quicker to realize and adapt.

Torts even fired shots at the management saying things are and have been, too stale with this core. When Torts manages to prove a point against the guy who hired him, you know you need to wake up.