[Trade] Canucks trade Tyler Motte to Rangers for 2023 4th-round pick

[coryberg]

While it sucks we couldn't get more than a 4th for Motte we didn't have it that bad. Look at what the blue jackets got for Domi.

 

Domi (50% retained)

6th round pick (161st-182nd) in 2022

 

For 

 

94th pick in the 2021 entry draft (Hreschuk)

 

Weird market I tell ya.

 

 

[RWJC]

Apologies if this has already been said here as I haven't read through the pages.

 

 

One thing about all of this that I hope we can all agree on is that we havent yet seen what kind of salary structure model this new mgmt team is going to utilize.

 

Perhaps they are looking at an internally imposed limit as to what can be spent per “tier” and where that money is best allocated. Motte at 2.75-3.5 is not going to move up the lineup. That’s a lot of money spent on a single player on the 3rd/4th who is an amazing motor but doesn’t provide much offense. For 2.75-3.5 that’s almost a requirement for team depth. 

 

Form what we’ve witnessed, the same level of Motte’s total “contribution” can be realized by other players earning in the 750K-1million range.  For 1 Motte you can potentially have 2.75 roster players earning as much in total and forming an almost complete line.

 

This is the kind of assessment that needs to be done in order  for this team to get itself out from under cap restraint hell.  For me, the big question is who does mgmt think are the players in that cap range that can achieve this. Luckily we have had two breakout candidates in Llama and the Stoner, but unfortunately both are upcoming RFA so are due for a raise.

 

My best guess is that we are going to approach the future with a much different distribution of cap amongst the players. Motte is a casualty of this.

 

I loved Motte here but he has clearly played and priced himself out of what is realistically affordable for this team. 

[SilentSam]

36 minutes ago, viking mama said:

Motte is on the rise & playing with more speed, heart & consistency in his role  than all 4 of those players you mentioned.

 

Motte is being under-valued & his intangibles were not properly respected in the price. It’s a sad realization that management has pulled a reliable cog out of the machine pushing hard on fumes to reach the play-offs…& that they’ve officially abandoned this pursuit. 
 

More of this team’s heart is gone & forgive me for mourning that a little.

 

 
 

 

Personally,  I think he deserved to take Boessers spot,.   Perhaps he should have, and that would have increased his value back to us.

I hope Motte has a great playoff run.

[wildcam]

4 hours ago, x00x said:

ahahah not really , but u keep telling urself that

Yes management did good, continue on your negative post..You will complain about anything.. 

There are 30 teams? Best Vancouver could get was 4th round pick for Motte..Rather get 4th rounder then get nothing and Motte walks in July..

Trade Hamonic 31 and his 3 million Dollar contract..Oh we get 3rd rounder back, Very good trade,,

Dermott 25, 1.5 million good deal for #5 D man, great fast skater.. 

[Baggins]

33 minutes ago, danjr said:

I just do not understand this move.
He is one of the teams best energy players.

There are about 5 other players on the bottom six I'd rather see let go.

Pure baffled!

 

Didn't see Alvin's post deadline presser? He said they couldn't come to an agreement with Motte. That left move him or let him walk for nothing.

 

It's about 30 seconds in....

 

 

[The Lock]

People are freaking out about this? I get that people want to think we can always get maximum value for everything, but how is such thinking realistic in the end? When does that ever happen?

 

At least we picked up a pick and already these trades feel a little different than when Benning or Gillis were here.

Edited March 22, 2022 by The Lock

[mordekai]

People here are comparing Motte to Andrew Copp LOL

clearly a bunch of you just log in to complain and doesn’t watch any other nhl games 

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, viking mama said:

Motte is on the rise & playing with more speed, heart & consistency in his role  than all 4 of those players you mentioned.

 

Motte is being under-valued & his intangibles were not properly respected in the price. It’s a sad realization that management has pulled a reliable cog out of the machine pushing hard on fumes to reach the play-offs…& that they’ve officially abandoned this pursuit. 
 

More of this team’s heart is gone & forgive me for mourning that a little.

The way I see it, what ends up happening is going to not be from one player, it's going to be from the sum of its parts. Yes, Motte will be missed, and I certainly wouldn't blame you for mourning him not being in the lineup.

 

However, he's only one piece, he's not exactly a top 6 forward, he's not much of a point producer, and I wouldn't blame it if teams looked for other players before they looked for Motte, which could lower his value. This isn't to say Motte's bad, it would be more to say there are also other players just as good, if not better than Motte on the market. He's a heart and soul guy but he's also limited.

 

I do think people here have overvalued Motte. A lot of people here overvalue our players in general. I don't even bother going into the proposals section much anymore because people make crazy claims about the value of our players and they get an echo chamber of other fans who also prefer to overvalue our players. Fans want the max value for our players, understandably so, but that's not always going to happen. There's just no way that could realistically happen. Sometimes yes, but not all the time.

 

Edit: One quick update too, from what I gather, the contract negotiations with Motte were stalled. Motte likely would have walked. We got something out of player that likely wasn't going to be here anyway. Think of how many players we've just let walk. That didn't happen this time.

Edited March 22, 2022 by The Lock

[iceman64]

10 hours ago, Alflives said:

Just keep the guy!  That's just a stupid friggin' deal. 

This management is not off to a good start.

Yeah just like I said after JB was fired, back to the same ole chit but different day.. ermm.. year. Letting Motte go was bad enough BUT for a 4th round? Ugh! 

We actually need to find someone with his drive exactly but bigger, if Hughes, Garland, Hogs were 6' and over than we'd be a much better team but their not and we have toughen up to balance it out.

The only way PA and JR come out of this unscathed is by picking up a replacement that's all Motte in a bigger package, if not it's a huge fail, bigger than it already is.

All I can say is if the management doesn't do something drastic in the off season, lots more of the same. 

P.S. after watching/radio listening since 74, being a Canucks fan after all these years is getting epically tiring!!  

[Metal Face Doom]

2 hours ago, Meh said:

What's to be baffled about? He would have cost too much. This was market value, stop overvaluing players.

The CDC special.  Player X is worth way more in my mind's eye and all.  Makes sense to me, why can't management make my imaginary moves.  They should be fired.  LOL.  Every year, no matter who's at the helm, same ish, different season.  

 

Carry on with your wild imaginations.  Damn I miss the days of Bulis, Mason Raymond and a 2nd for your all-star.  

[MrCanuck94]

"if your players Tyler Motte makes 500k too much, your Tyler Myers make 2 million too much, those are the type of deals that will hurt you when you try build a team that are a contender"

 

BANG ON by Jannik Hansen, someone who's lived these situations. Like he said, the last 5/6 years the team has given too many player friendly contracts, paying them more than their value, rather than team value contracts.

 

We can't just let assets walk for free. The 4th pick can't just be valued by the % of the pick becoming a player. The capital can be used as an added asset that helps win you a trade. It can be combined with cap space to land a player way under value (Schmidt, Toews). There's so many more possibilities, but those possibilities need to be open by having the cap space and more assets on hand. A lot more work to be done in the offseason.

Edited March 22, 2022 by MrCanuck94

[EP Phone Home]

16 hours ago, 13231 said:

This trade seems so pointless. Why not just keep Motte at this point when he has an important role on the team. What kind of message is this sending to the players? Before someone comes in with the aSsEt mAnaGeMenT argument, please tell me the last time a 4th rounder turned into anything worthwhile. Ideally we keep Motte till the end of the season and let the team battle it out, and let him walk at the end of it if the price of resigning him is too high. A 4th is negligible, this trade as a whole just seems so random and unnecessary. 

Jack Rathbone was a 4th round pick. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by EP Phone Home

[BlastPast]

23 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

"if your players Tyler Motte makes 500k too much, your Tyler Myers make 2 million too much, those are the type of deals that will hurt you when you try build a team that are a contender"

 

BANG ON by Jannik Hansen, someone who's lived these situations. Like he said, the last 5/6 years the team has given too many player friendly contracts, paying them more than their value, rather than team value contracts.

 

We can't just let assets walk for free. The 4th pick can't just be valued by the % of the pick becoming a player. The capital can be used as an added asset that helps win you a trade. It can be combined with cap space to land a player way under value (Schmidt, Toews). There's so many more possibilities, but those possibilities need to be open by having the cap space and more assets on hand. A lot more work to be done in the offseason.

What do you think a team that potentially acquires the pick will value it as? The pick is worth what it is worth (not a lot) regardless of what you use it for.  It's like saying you can't value a $100 dollar bill at $100 because you can use it to buy stuff. Yes, $100 worth of stuff. I, personally, would prefer they not make a bigger deal, if it is unsatisfactory, rather than make one just to satisfy media.

[SergioMomesso]

3 hours ago, danjr said:

I just do not understand this move.
He is one of the teams best energy players.

There are about 5 other players on the bottom six I'd rather see let go.

Pure baffled!

 

We can’t afford to pay him the 2.5-3 he’s gonna get elsewhere this summer. I’m sure Alvin was trying to move guys like Dicky and Chiasson but there were probably next to zero offers on the table. Watching Chiasson live last night was as bad as everyone says. He’s not even worth an 8th round pick. And there’s only 7 rounds in the draft. 

[UKNuck96]

1 hour ago, MrCanuck94 said:

"if your players Tyler Motte makes 500k too much, your Tyler Myers make 2 million too much, those are the type of deals that will hurt you when you try build a team that are a contender"

 

BANG ON by Jannik Hansen, someone who's lived these situations. Like he said, the last 5/6 years the team has given too many player friendly contracts, paying them more than their value, rather than team value contracts.

 

We can't just let assets walk for free. The 4th pick can't just be valued by the % of the pick becoming a player. The capital can be used as an added asset that helps win you a trade. It can be combined with cap space to land a player way under value (Schmidt, Toews). There's so many more possibilities, but those possibilities need to be open by having the cap space and more assets on hand. A lot more work to be done in the offseason.

I like a lot of Hansens takes and I think he would do well if he went down the GM route. 

[MrCanuck94]

54 minutes ago, BlastPast said:

What do you think a team that potentially acquires the pick will value it as? The pick is worth what it is worth (not a lot) regardless of what you use it for.  It's like saying you can't value a $100 dollar bill at $100 because you can use it to buy stuff. Yes, $100 worth of stuff. I, personally, would prefer they not make a bigger deal, if it is unsatisfactory, rather than make one just to satisfy media.

The point is that we have to look at the bigger picture.

 

Keeping a strategy of these type of moves consistently means we'll do similar type moves in the future and keep accumulating picks that will in total equal to a larger amount of capital that we can use to keep bringing in valuable assets while removing invaluable cap and replacing it with valuable cap. Rinse, repeat.

Edited March 22, 2022 by MrCanuck94

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Eh, you can pay other players less to bring "intangibles" and "heart". It's a business at the end of the day, better players than Motte got a 4th in return. He wanted more than we were willing to pay, it happens to every team. 

 

Fans get so attached to their players that they build up entire mythologies around them. There are plenty of players around the league who also play with intangibles and heart. 

 

Eh, Hansen was always better than Motte. Just as fast, just as dogged, solid defensively, stayed healthy. Played 626 NHL games, most of them with us. Motte is a bottom six player, Hansen could be a capable middle six tweener. This isn't to dump on Motte, but Hansen's value was there before he played with the twins and that's reflected in his point totals. 47 career points vs 256.  

 

I like most of Hansen's takes though. 

I've loved Motte since the first season when we got him, so I'm not that thrilled with this trade HOWEVER my decision on the trade will be made this summer when we see what Motte gets on his contract.  

If he signs for 2 mil/year or less, then this will be a loss.  I hope that Motte gets someone to pay him closer to 2.5 or even 3 mil/year, in which case this trade will be justified.  

 

You say that there are plenty of players who play with intangibles and heart but it's just not true, or if they do then they don't have the speed/skill.  

 

 

I mean didn't we just witness that in Vancouver over the last two-three years?  

 

Travis Boyd 

Justin Bailey 

Adam Gaudette 

Zack MacEwen 

Jimmy Vesey 

Marc Michaelis 

Jayce Hawryluk 

 

I'm not singling you out here Coconuts because lots of fans have this notion that you can just find a bottom 6 forward anywhere.  "Replacement level" is a term that's been parroted by some of the media members whose background is in journalism, not hockey. 

Life of a Canuck fan has involved experiment after experiment in the bottom 6, and the past tells us that most of those experiments fail.  I hope that Will Lockwood gets an opportunity here to play on the Lammikko - Highmore line and that he holds his own.  We might have our Motte replacement already in the system. 

[mll]

4 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I've loved Motte since the first season when we got him, so I'm not that thrilled with this trade HOWEVER my decision on the trade will be made this summer when we see what Motte gets on his contract.  

If he signs for 2 mil/year or less, then this will be a loss.  I hope that Motte gets someone to pay him closer to 2.5 or even 3 mil/year, in which case this trade will be justified.  

 

You say that there are plenty of players who play with intangibles and heart but it's just not true, or if they do then they don't have the speed/skill.  

 

 

I mean didn't we just witness that in Vancouver over the last two-three years?  

 

Travis Boyd 

Justin Bailey 

Adam Gaudette 

Zack MacEwen 

Jimmy Vesey 

Marc Michaelis 

Jayce Hawryluk 

 

I'm not singling you out here Coconuts because lots of fans have this notion that you can just find a bottom 6 forward anywhere.  "Replacement level" is a term that's been parroted by some of the media members whose background is in journalism, not hockey. 

Life of a Canuck fan has involved experiment after experiment in the bottom 6, and the past tells us that most of those experiments fail.  I hope that Will Lockwood gets an opportunity here to play on the Lammikko - Highmore line and that he holds his own.  We might have our Motte replacement already in the system. 

 

He might get less than he was asking from Vancouver.  He was probably looking at the Dickinson contract.  His agent calls him a 3rd liner but the market might see him differently.  Several players turned down deals because they felt they could get more on the open market and had to then settle for less.  

[Azzy]

19 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

If he signs for 2 mil/year or less, then this will be a loss.  I hope that Motte gets someone to pay him closer to 2.5 or even 3 mil/year, in which case this trade will be justified.  

I'm told on Twitter that guys with career highs of 16 points don't get more than a 4th rounder in return.

 

By the same token, those same players ought not receive contracts over, what, $1.5m AAV?

 

Apparently all Canucks fans should be happy with the meagre return because Motte is basically worthless, but still worth $10-$12m over 4 years. Go figure.

[ShawnAntoski]

59 minutes ago, mll said:

 

He might get less than he was asking from Vancouver.  He was probably looking at the Dickinson contract.  His agent calls him a 3rd liner but the market might see him differently.  Several players turned down deals because they felt they could get more on the open market and had to then settle for less.  

Dickenson is the new LE and hopefully, Allvin finds a new home for or Boudreau gets creative and turn him into a useful roster piece.   I like Motte but his style of play, doesn't age well and perhaps Allvin hits on the 4th he got or uses it in a deal.....