Millers Value (Discussion/Proposals)

[JM_]

59 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

@JM_

 

Something I have been chewing on for some time, is where is the critical tipping point?

 

By this I mean.................JR says we are 2 full years away from competing....maybe 3

 

So, in 1 scenario we Trade Miller for prospects and picks, and in the other scenario we keep Miller, which gives us the biggest bag for the buck?

 

So in Scenario 1, we get a top prospect and a 1st rounder.......................ok, in by the start of the 3rd year, they are now contributing to the team

 

 

In Scenario 2, Miller is now 31 at the start of his 3rd year, and we are how much better by then, and how? Our draft picks are just starting to contribute, and how is Millers career working out..............does he still have good years ahead of him?

 

It seems that in 2 full years, our core of Horvat 29, Pettersson 25, Hughes 24 Demko 28, Podkolzin 22, Hoglander 23, Lammikko 28, Highmore 28, Rathbone 25, Lockwood 25, Klimovich 21, Dermott 27, Buroughs 28, Martin 28, Garland 28, Boeser 27, Karlsson 24, McDonaugh 24.................to me this is the start of our window, where most of your team is in their prime, and not in the chance of declining for 5 or 6 years..........

 

Miller, OEL, Myers, Schenn, Pearson can not promise us those 5 or 6 years, where as any prospects and picks are just entering their peek/prime years, so they have 9 /10 years of contribution in front of them, where as the 4 old guys can not promise anything or much, as they start declining (In 2 years), So if you are planning for the core, I use the Miller trade and the other 3, if possible to add to the cores best years, instead of the other way around.....

well, so here's how I look at it. There's what you know, and what you don't know. We know Miller is a hell of a player. Its a safe bet he'll be a hell of a player for 3-4 years. 

 

If the prospect deals are like the ones Deb posted above, thats all long shot stuff. 3 years from now we could easily have nothing left over from the Miller deal if thats all that is on the table. 

 

I believe there is a path to making the team competitive with Miller, as early as next year but it would take some ridiculous GM'ing to pull it off, mostly due to Bennings cap snafu's. 

 

So for Scenario 1 to work, we'll need a great return - a now piece for the roster thats a difference maker in some way, obviously not a 1C but a legitimate 3C (not a project like Chytil) or a big bruising d-man. The prospect and pick stuff is luck, maybe its good maybe its not. 

 

I see Scenario 2 as something more likely to produce something competitive. I don't care much about regular season numbers, just look at the suckage out of Florida, e.g. If we can build something heavier for the playoffs that is a route I'd like to see. 

 

 

[wildcam]

On 5/23/2022 at 9:06 PM, J.I.A.H.N said:

It is not that I do not like your suggestions..................it is just that teams seem to be holding onto their valuable prospects, and I am not wanting B prospects..........

 

If we are trading a 100 pts player.................that equals a 50 point player, and a blue chip prospect........or a equal type deal

 

The trouble is.....teams do not want to do that.............

 

 

We also have to remember that Miller had 99 points this past season? He is not a regular 90 point guy..So we can't be expecting the  massive return..

Miller is realistically should be 75-80 point guy..

So trade with LA Kings = Faber 21, RD 6'1, Valardi 23, 6'3, C - Lemieux 26, 6'1 W-- 2nd rounder 2022  -- Would be a decent deal..

We also don't have to sign a 30yr old player to a 6 year X 8.5 million Dollar contract..

We need young prospects and cap space to make better deals..

[NucknAsia]

Apparently it came out today that the following was offered by the Rangers. (Sat Shah was the source on twitter I believe)

 

Miller to NYR

Nils Lundqvuist, Filip Chytil, and a first rounder

 

While this is an "ok" return - It clearly wasn't enough for new management and its also a type of deal that would still be available at the draft. My guess is management felt lets wait to see how some teams fair in the playoffs and that could change their minds.

 

The rangers may stand their ground given how well they are doing, but other teams like Florida, Pittsburgh, Toronto (not that they have much to offer), Dallas, Kings, Bruins, anyone who had early exits and wants to get over the top, may create the competitive tension to raise bids.

 

I can't see us not getting an equivalent deal if we wanted to move him at the draft. I do hope he's re-signed and if we are to move a center, I think Horvat should be the guy.

[BigTramFan]

9 hours ago, IBatch said:

It sounds good but would we actually trade Miller to someone in our own division?   And Blake has done the right moves to create a future in LA in their pipeline - how much would he be willing to actually give up?   Aside from Kesler (two trade team list - grouchy entitlement trade), when have we ever made a big trade with anyone in our own division?    We are almost in direct competition with them as is. 

You have a point but it seems most posters are concerned about signing an anchor contract for Miller and having him under performing for the final 3-5 years of that. Why wouldn't we want our main competitors to suffer that?

 

Also it's not like there haven't been trades within our division. Are they 'big' trades'? I dunno but the recent trades for Schmidt and Toffoli were reasonably big deals (both top 6/4 players). It's not like there isn't a precedent for it.

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

You have a point but it seems most posters are concerned about signing an anchor contract for Miller and having him under performing for the final 3-5 years of that. Why wouldn't we want our main competitors to suffer that?

 

Also it's not like there haven't been trades within our division. Are they 'big' trades'? I dunno but the recent trades for Schmidt and Toffoli were reasonably big deals (both top 6/4 players). It's not like there isn't a precedent for it.

Support players both of them.   Yes they are examples of teams trading within a division ... when's the last time a guy like Miller was traded though?   Check out our all time trade record with CAL and EDM.    LA was tanking on purpose - TT was a rental and he knew that - cash strapped team like ours couldn't afford him.   Schmidt - well.... not exactly a move that moved the needle much was it?   Aside from Kesler - we'd have to really really dig deep to find a divisional team wouldn't we?   It's not just a good point it's the way things a done.   Almost all our bigger trades all-time, have been outside our own division.   Since the cap and the fact cycles take that much longer (expansion motivated),  we are seeing some trades within own divisions - as rentals mostly - which wouldn't Miller be anyways to LA?   Don't see LA as a trading partner.    NJ yes.   OTT maybe.    Likely a US team that thinks they can sign him after - CALI teams are pretty much out of the picture.   If he wants to go for cash Seattle is a possibility.   No tax state.   Tons of cash ... who would we want there?  Doubt it though.   Seems to like to win.    CAL/EDM are also an interesting case study.    Check out their trade history lol. Almost non-existent.   Isn't Steve freaking Stois pretty much our "high water mark" trade with EDM?     What is it with CAL?

 

Edit:  Most posters should be worried about signing Miller.   I haven't seen an actual poll though.   I think that mostly we are worried we end up wasting him.   To me anyways, he hasn't been wasted.   Helped our team get to the bubble and a taste, and had one of the best individual seasons ever pushing to make the show.    I'd be 100% ok making the playoff next season with Miller - and watching him go somewhere else.    It happens all the time.   It's better then him becoming an anchor isn't it?    It's also better then making a trade that doesn't work out at all pre-maturely as well. Which also happens.    Best case of course a miraculous trade we make the show anyways and just get better and better.    Not many Linden trades ... those are uber rare.   Go check out how MTL made out with Roy for example .. not great lol. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by IBatch

[BCNate]

Bored at work, so came up with a little different offseason plan....sorry for the long read.

 

Detroit could put together a pretty nice package for Miller.  They have a few excellent prospects that will be entering their prime in the next few years: Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson, Joulevi.  They also have a few key players in their prime: Larkin, Vrana, Bertuzzi.  Adding a guy like Miller, and all of the available cap space they have, could get them competitive next year.  They also have the room to re sign him.

To the Wings:

Miller 

Myers

For a package built around:

Zadina ( is a gamble, but I feel is ready to break out.  He would look really good on Horvat's wing)

Hronek (We need offense from our right side.  Pair him with OEL to provide some shelter, and the look of our D changes significantly.

Berggen (Stud prospect who has huge offensive upside)

2nd

 

I would then deal:

Garland to LA for Turcotte and Grans (Turcotte is entering bust territory and is buried on the Kings depth chart. Grans is a huge, young, near NHL ready RD coming off a very good season in the AHL) 

Boeser to Boston for Debrusk and Zobril (Boeser and debrusk are at similar levels currently.  BB has more upside, so Zobril is the add)

Hoglander for a 2nd and late pick ( I don't see a fit for Hoglander on JR/BBs team)

Dickinson for late pick (He isn't good at hockey)

 

Sign  Forsberg 7x9, Marchment 3x4, Copp 5x5

(Forsberg is an elite winger who replaces JT's points, Marchment is a huge physical winger who looks to have broken out, Copp is the ideal 3C for us)

 

We add a lot of talent to the team while getting bigger, younger, cheaper, and completely re stock our prospect pool.

 

Forsberg-EP-Podkolzin 

Debrusk-Horvat-Zadina 

Pearson-Copp-Marchment 

Highmore-Lammikko-Lockwood 

 

Hughes-Schenn  

OEL-Hronek  

Zobril-Rathbone-Dermott-Burroughs make up our 3rd pair  

 

Demko

Martin

 

Adding Grans, Turcotte, Zobril, 2 2nds and our first to the prospect pool this offseason is huge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ShawnAntoski]

15 hours ago, wildcam said:

We also have to remember that Miller had 99 points this past season? He is not a regular 90 point guy..So we can't be expecting the  massive return..

Miller is realistically should be 75-80 point guy..

So trade with LA Kings = Faber 21, RD 6'1, Valardi 23, 6'3, C - Lemieux 26, 6'1 W-- 2nd rounder 2022  -- Would be a decent deal..

We also don't have to sign a 30yr old player to a 6 year X 8.5 million Dollar contract..

We need young prospects and cap space to make better deals..

Great points: Miller seems to had had a career year and most GM'S are savy enough to understand the market/player - unless, it is a desperate GM that is desperate to make the playoffs and his job.  Preferably. NJ and LA would be good trading partners for the Canucks but there GM'S had just both been resigned.  

Edited May 25, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[wildcam]

18 hours ago, NucknAsia said:

Apparently it came out today that the following was offered by the Rangers. (Sat Shah was the source on twitter I believe)

 

Miller to NYR

Nils Lundqvuist, Filip Chytil, and a first rounder

 

While this is an "ok" return - It clearly wasn't enough for new management and its also a type of deal that would still be available at the draft. My guess is management felt lets wait to see how some teams fair in the playoffs and that could change their minds.

 

The rangers may stand their ground given how well they are doing, but other teams like Florida, Pittsburgh, Toronto (not that they have much to offer), Dallas, Kings, Bruins, anyone who had early exits and wants to get over the top, may create the competitive tension to raise bids.

 

I can't see us not getting an equivalent deal if we wanted to move him at the draft. I do hope he's re-signed and if we are to move a center, I think Horvat should be the guy.

I also think that if the new management team never got the exact player in trade package they would hold off until summer. The team was also playing great under new coach Boudreau.. I think if Rangers said Schneider, Chytil and 1st rounder they would of made the trade with Vancouver....                                                                    I think Vancouver will have trade partners in the summer, LA Kings, Boston, Devils, Columbus and maybe Panthers.. I don't think Rangers will make another offer for Miller..  Copp  27, 6'1, 210, W/C  UFA - Think he will sign 5 yrs X 5 million with Rangers this summer.. Copp 28 in July made 3.6 million this past season...

[Hairy Kneel]

After what Tofu got I think it's fine to start high for JT. Tofu is barely a top 6.

And I don't like the thought of helping Bos or LA.

[Pure961089]

JR is going to do his best to lock Miller up for 6 years at 8 mill a year.  having him signed long term will increase his value.  I don't see him going for anything less than a top 10 1st rounder, a good young player and a RHD prospect.  The Canucks will be looking for knee jerk reactions by impatient GMs that disappointed in the playoffs.  JR is playing this smart. 

[Pure961089]

imagine this scenario.  Canucks trade Miller to Dallas for Jamie Benn, Wyatt Johnston (C 19), Mavrik Bourque (C 20), Joseph Cecconi (RHD 25) and Thomas Harley (LHD 20)

hear me out.  Benn is a hometown boy who has 3 years left on his albeit hefty contract but we have the cap room if we bring in these young guys. I think it would be very tempting for Dallas to rid themselves of Benn's contract but it will cost them.  Bright side is they're a good team and all they need is a little push to get them over the hump.  If I'm Jim R that's what I'm selling him. 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Pure961089

[Coconuts]

On 5/26/2022 at 8:26 AM, Hairy Kneel said:

After what Tofu got I think it's fine to start high for JT. Tofu is barely a top 6.

And I don't like the thought of helping Bos or LA.

What if they're the teams offering the best return? LA's got some young players I'd love to have in our system. 

 

Whoever's inquiring will have to pay a pretty penny, but I'd trade him to whoever offers the best return. If it's LA, well, they've gotta question whether the piece they give us make it harder for them to get past us too. 

[komodo0921]

A huge factor in Miller's value could be JR's willingness to, perhaps, retain salary, as has been rumored to be an option.

This would open up options for teams tight to the cap that wouldn't have, otherwise, been options.

Teams I like are:

Nashville- Jeanot, Prokop, 17th overall pick or Zach L'Heureux

NYR- Schneider, Chytl, 2nd round pick 2022, 1st round pick 2023

Ottawa- Jake Sanderson, 7th overall pick

Minny- Fiala and Ryan O'Rourke

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, komodo0921 said:

A huge factor in Miller's value could be JR's willingness to, perhaps, retain salary, as has been rumored to be an option.

This would open up options for teams tight to the cap that wouldn't have, otherwise, been options.

Teams I like are:

Nashville- Jeanot, Prokop, 17th overall pick or Zach L'Heureux

NYR- Schneider, Chytl, 2nd round pick 2022, 1st round pick 2023

Ottawa- Jake Sanderson, 7th overall pick

Minny- Fiala and Ryan O'Rourke

I don’t see JR retailers Ning on Miller.  And I definitely don’t see any Miller return being picks/prospects, unless those are then flipped for 23-27 year old guys who will contribute to our club right now.

The Trade im seeing in my correct drunken stupor is: Miller for Marino + Kapanen

[eeeeergh]

On 5/24/2022 at 11:57 PM, NucknAsia said:

Apparently it came out today that the following was offered by the Rangers. (Sat Shah was the source on twitter I believe)

 

Miller to NYR

Nils Lundqvuist, Filip Chytil, and a first rounder

 

While this is an "ok" return - It clearly wasn't enough for new management and its also a type of deal that would still be available at the draft. My guess is management felt lets wait to see how some teams fair in the playoffs and that could change their minds.

 

The rangers may stand their ground given how well they are doing, but other teams like Florida, Pittsburgh, Toronto (not that they have much to offer), Dallas, Kings, Bruins, anyone who had early exits and wants to get over the top, may create the competitive tension to raise bids.

 

I can't see us not getting an equivalent deal if we wanted to move him at the draft. I do hope he's re-signed and if we are to move a center, I think Horvat should be the guy.

Can see this being reasonably close tbh. If the Canucks retain some salary on Miller next year, Rangers get him for 2.5m/year. 

Take Lundkvist, Chytil, NYR 1st, Othmann for Miller at 50% retained. 

Add 2x grade A prospects, a young 3C with upside, and a 1st, and the future looks a lot brighter. 

[Provost]

On 5/29/2022 at 1:54 PM, Alflives said:

I don’t see JR retailers Ning on Miller.  And I definitely don’t see any Miller return being picks/prospects, unless those are then flipped for 23-27 year old guys who will contribute to our club right now.

The Trade im seeing in my correct drunken stupor is: Miller for Marino + Kapanen

If it ups the return significantly, retaining on Miller for a year doesn’t sound too bad.

 

I was seeing another rumour that an ask might be Lafreniere plus a 1st, which is decent.  I would rather see Lafreniere and K’Andre Miller as the return in a package.

[BPA]

Miller (50% retained) + Myers

to NYI for

 

1st 2022 (13th pick) + Mayfield + Wahlstrom + Wilde + Raty

 

 

[BPA]

Miller (50% retained)

 

to COL for

 

Newhook + Byram + 1st 2023

 

[higgyfan]

If anything, this thread is showing that fans are divided in their expectations of a Miller trade.  Ranging from very

sparse to extreme returns is what I see.  Someone is bound to end up with the correct combo, but it could take

most of the summer to see how this ends up

[wildcam]

On 5/25/2022 at 11:11 AM, BCNate said:

Bored at work, so came up with a little different offseason plan....sorry for the long read.

 

Detroit could put together a pretty nice package for Miller.  They have a few excellent prospects that will be entering their prime in the next few years: Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson, Joulevi.  They also have a few key players in their prime: Larkin, Vrana, Bertuzzi.  Adding a guy like Miller, and all of the available cap space they have, could get them competitive next year.  They also have the room to re sign him.

To the Wings:

Miller 

Myers

For a package built around:

Zadina ( is a gamble, but I feel is ready to break out.  He would look really good on Horvat's wing)

Hronek (We need offense from our right side.  Pair him with OEL to provide some shelter, and the look of our D changes significantly.

Berggen (Stud prospect who has huge offensive upside)

2nd

 

I would then deal:

Garland to LA for Turcotte and Grans (Turcotte is entering bust territory and is buried on the Kings depth chart. Grans is a huge, young, near NHL ready RD coming off a very good season in the AHL) 

Boeser to Boston for Debrusk and Zobril (Boeser and debrusk are at similar levels currently.  BB has more upside, so Zobril is the add)

Hoglander for a 2nd and late pick ( I don't see a fit for Hoglander on JR/BBs team)

Dickinson for late pick (He isn't good at hockey)

 

Sign  Forsberg 7x9, Marchment 3x4, Copp 5x5

(Forsberg is an elite winger who replaces JT's points, Marchment is a huge physical winger who looks to have broken out, Copp is the ideal 3C for us)

 

We add a lot of talent to the team while getting bigger, younger, cheaper, and completely re stock our prospect pool.

 

Forsberg-EP-Podkolzin 

Debrusk-Horvat-Zadina 

Pearson-Copp-Marchment 

Highmore-Lammikko-Lockwood 

 

Hughes-Schenn  

OEL-Hronek  

Zobril-Rathbone-Dermott-Burroughs make up our 3rd pair  

 

Demko

Martin

 

Adding Grans, Turcotte, Zobril, 2 2nds and our first to the prospect pool this offseason is huge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OMG I don't think L.A Kings will make that trade for Garland?  LA Kings  Turcotte 21, 5'11, C/W and Grans 20, RD, 6'3 --- Would be a  good trade for Vancouver...