The Current Construction of the Vancouver Canucks

[Elias Pettersson]

So with the signing of Brock Boeser, we currently have only two players left to sign that are RFA's.  Juho Lammikko and Matthew Highmore.  If we were to re-sign both of them which is likely, then our team is complete with 23 players and we are at around $82 million on the cap including Ferland's LTIR, our buyouts and bonus money.  Here is the current construction of our team:

 

Kuzmenko        Pettersson       Boeser

Pearson           Miller                Podkolzin

Hoglander        Horvat              Garland

Dickinson         Lammikko        Highmore

Dowling

 

Hughes          Schenn

OEL               Myers

Dermott         Poolman

Rathbone      Burroughs 

 

Demko    Martin

 

So how do people view the current construction of our team?  What needs to be done to make us better?  

 

We've obviously talked about alot of ways to change the makeup of the team.  Let's use this thread to look at the actual lineup and make changes that can show actual lines put together as well as defence partners.  

 

I see the current makeup of the team as good enough to make the playoffs but will have trouble beating the upper echelon teams.  Should Miller be kept to keep our centre depth elite?  How does that affect the wings?  Do we need more size and speed on the wings?  More truculence?  How do you feel about Schenn having to play with Hughes on the top pairing?  Will Poolman even be able to play?

Edited July 2, 2022 by Elias Pettersson

[DownUndaCanuck]

The obvious one is that we've got plenty of good forwards but lacking right defencemen. I liked how we lined up rolling 3 lines under Bruce at times but I doubt we'll see that all season and will probably have Petey on the wing a lot of the season.

 

If that's the case, then we need a 3C and a top RD.

 

Trades are proving harder to make but for me, Miller is going to be impossible to move, but someone like Garland much easier. If there's a 1 for 1 Garland trade for a young RD top 4 guy then we take it. The obvious guy is Marino, I'd do that in a heart-beat, even if we have to add a pick.

 

Then for 3C there are plenty on the market but we'd have to dump some cap like Dickinson or Poolman. Ideally we'd sign someone like Tierney for 2.5-3M (considering Paul went for just over 3M) which is Dickinson money we'd have to dump. Sadly I think this is going to be less likely and we may just roll with Miller, Petey and Bo as our centers as a result. Ideally though we'd line up like this:

 

Pettersson - Miller - Boeser

Kuzmenko - Horvat - Podkolzin

Pearson - Tierney - Hoglander

Highmore - Lammikko - Lockwood

 

Hughes - Marino

OEL - Myers

Rathbone - Schenn

Dermott

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

The obvious one is that we've got plenty of good forwards but lacking right defencemen. I liked how we lined up rolling 3 lines under Bruce at times but I doubt we'll see that all season and will probably have Petey on the wing a lot of the season.

 

If that's the case, then we need a 3C and a top RD.

 

Trades are proving harder to make but for me, Miller is going to be impossible to move, but someone like Garland much easier. If there's a 1 for 1 Garland trade for a young RD top 4 guy then we take it. The obvious guy is Marino, I'd do that in a heart-beat, even if we have to add a pick.

 

Then for 3C there are plenty on the market but we'd have to dump some cap like Dickinson or Poolman. Ideally we'd sign someone like Tierney for 2.5-3M (considering Paul went for just over 3M) which is Dickinson money we'd have to dump. Sadly I think this is going to be less likely and we may just roll with Miller, Petey and Bo as our centers as a result. Ideally though we'd line up like this:

 

Pettersson - Miller - Boeser

Kuzmenko - Horvat - Podkolzin

Pearson - Tierney - Hoglander

Highmore - Lammikko - Lockwood

 

Hughes - Marino

OEL - Myers

Rathbone - Schenn

Dermott

So you are looking at adding Tierney as a UFA and then trade Garland straight up for Marino.  And reunite the 649 line.

 

This I think should make us a better team and better balances out the lines and defence partners .  The question would be is that enough?  Do we ride this out and see what happens and make changes during the season if needed?  Will we sign Miller in the summer or try and get an extension done during the year?

[MrCanuck94]

Just looking at it surface level like that, we have a solid #1 and #2 on defence with Hughes and OEL, but after that, it's a bunch of guys who would be playing bottom pair on a contender. We won't survive in the playoffs like that. The depth that Colorado had was insane, and with Girard getting injured, they were able to have a quality piece like Byram step up and be one of the key difference makers on that team.

 

As for forwards, offensively it is a good group, but we lack some elements to the group. IMO we need to strengthen that middle 6 and bottom 6 with faster and better defensive players. As JR mentioned, some players that can play but also have sandpaper in their game as well.

 

Having more young players in the pipeline on ELCs to boost the bottom half lineup quality would've been nice, but it is what it is. Definitely has to be the main focus moving forward.

 

We are set at goalie until Demko retires luckily 

[DownUndaCanuck]

48 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So you are looking at adding Tierney as a UFA and then trade Garland straight up for Marino.  And reunite the 649 line.

 

This I think should make us a better team and better balances out the lines and defence partners .  The question would be is that enough?  Do we ride this out and see what happens and make changes during the season if needed?  Will we sign Miller in the summer or try and get an extension done during the year?

I'd be happy to ride this out and see where it takes us. If we have success, great, if we somehow aren't in playoff contention then we blow it up with some big trades.

 

Miller's a tricky one, personally I'd rather deal with him at the end of the year because I want to see if that 99 point season was a once-off or not (because I've got a feeling it will be, similar to Bradyn Point who going paid big time after his 90 point year and hasn't been a PPG player since, on a cap hit of 9M). Of course this would leave the team and player with a lot of anxiety, but I worry we won't be able to trade him this off-season because of his big price tag and him asking to basically double his cap hit, and if we sign him to a 8.5-9M deal with term he could easily slump again. He doesn't have to drop 100 points but as long as he's hovering around a PPG then sure, let's try and lock him down.

[Devron]

Just like to point out that the number does not include LTIR. That gets set closer to start of the season so technically we do have a little bit of cap space with the current roster. 

[smithers joe]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So with the signing of Brock Boeser, we currently have only two players left to sign that are RFA's.  Juho Lammikko and Matthew Highmore.  If we were to re-sign both of them which is likely, then our team is complete with 23 players and we are at around $82 million on the cap including Ferland's LTIR, our buyouts and bonus money.  Here is the current construction of our team:

 

Kuzmenko        Pettersson       Boeser

Pearson           Miller                Podkolzin

Hoglander        Horvat              Garland

Dickinson         Lammikko        Highmore

Dowling

 

Hughes          Schenn

OEL               Myers

Dermott         Poolman

Rathbone      Burroughs 

 

Demko    Martin

 

So how do people view the current construction of our team?  What needs to be done to make us better?  

 

We've obviously talked about alot of ways to change the makeup of the team.  Let's use this thread to look at the actual lineup and make changes that can show actual lines put together as well as defence partners.  

 

I see the current makeup of the team as good enough to make the playoffs but will have trouble beating the upper echelon teams.  Should Miller be kept to keep our centre depth elite?  How does that affect the wings?  Do we need more size and speed on the wings?  More truculence?  How do you feel about Schenn having to play with Hughes on the top pairing?  Will Poolman even be able to play?

how does each player grade out on speed, skill, truculence, scorer, playmaking, play drivers and team players? players on good teams fit more than one skill set.

[Ilya Mikheyev]

I think the goal has to be shifting some of that forward depth but a top-4 defenseman (as been stated a lot on this forum, and vaguely by Canucks management). Don't get me wrong, I really like Luke Schenn, but he shouldn't be a top-4 D on a healthy team that wants to contend. I expect bigger seasons from Boeser, and Horvat can easily slide back into 2c and his point total would go up if that's the case.

 

Rutherford has spoken extensively about wanting a better break out, and it's easy to see why. For that reason, I'm guessing they're targeting top-4 RHD with decent mobility and breakout pass. Jack Rathbone will already help the bottom pairing in that regard, I'm sure he'll cycle thru partners, but Dermott is also an upgrade over Poolman in terms of break outs. As far as I know Poolman is still suffering chronic headaches, so I wouldn't be surprised if he starts the year on LTIR.

 

I kind of still think a hockey trade is coming between Hextall and Allvin; this was rumoured upon the hiring. At first I thought it was going to be Boeser to ride shotgun with Malkin, but with Boeser's re-signing and his personal narrative lately, and Malkin likely walking I'm guessing Hextall's focus has changed to a C (which the Canucks happen to have). Pittsburgh has one of Rutherford's favourite defensemen, who happens to be a mobile, smart RHD who is seen less favourably by Hextall than Rutherford.

 

I could see something that involves some of the the following pieces: Miller, Garland or Pearson, Dickinson or Poolman, Marino, Kapanen's rights (favoured by JR, not by Hextall), a 1st 2023, Filip Hallander (a Allvin/Rutherford drafteee they were high on that hasn't gotten the chance he thought he would). It's hard to see exactly how that would balance out, as Pittsburgh may not have the youth/picks to be involved w/ the Miller trade ultimately.

 

But that roster would look like:

 

Kapanen           Pettersson       Boeser

Kuzie                  Horvat           Podkolzin

Pearson            UFA/Trade    Hoglander

Highmore          Lammikko       Lockwood/UFA(Deslauriers being my favourite)

Hallander

 

Hughes          Marino

OEL               Myers

Rathbone      Dermott

Burroughs     Schenn

 

Demko    Martin

 

Maybe throw in a Malkin signing with a bonus-laden deal as suggested by @Provost and regain the forward depth lost in a Miller deal.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Teemu Selänne

[DrJockitch]

I think projecting Kuzmenko to first line is very questionable. Would pencil him in third or fourth line. 
Good as he was in KHL he was undrafted for a reason and an older rookie but still rookie. 
Hope he is top notch but won’t bet season on it unless we are tanking for Bedard. 
Team still has most of same issues as last year just possibly a little better scoring depth. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by DrJockitch

[Alflives]

51 minutes ago, Teemu Selänne said:

I think the goal has to be shifting some of that forward depth but a top-4 defenseman (as been stated a lot on this forum, and vaguely by Canucks management). Don't get me wrong, I really like Luke Schenn, but he shouldn't be a top-4 D on a healthy team that wants to contend. I expect bigger seasons from Boeser, and Horvat can easily slide back into 2c and his point total would go up if that's the case.

 

Rutherford has spoken extensively about wanting a better break out, and it's easy to see why. For that reason, I'm guessing they're targeting top-4 RHD with decent mobility and breakout pass. Jack Rathbone will already help the bottom pairing in that regard, I'm sure he'll cycle thru partners, but Dermott is also an upgrade over Poolman in terms of break outs. As far as I know Poolman is still suffering chronic headaches, so I wouldn't be surprised if he starts the year on LTIR.

 

I kind of still think a hockey trade is coming between Hextall and Allvin; this was rumoured upon the hiring. At first I thought it was going to be Boeser to ride shotgun with Malkin, but with Boeser's re-signing and his personal narrative lately, and Malkin likely walking I'm guessing Hextall's focus has changed to a C (which the Canucks happen to have). Pittsburgh has one of Rutherford's favourite defensemen, who happens to be a mobile, smart RHD who is seen less favourably by Hextall than Rutherford.

 

I could see something that involves some of the the following pieces: Miller, Garland or Pearson, Dickinson or Poolman, Marino, Kapanen's rights (favoured by JR, not by Hextall), a 1st 2023, Filip Hallander (a Allvin/Rutherford drafteee they were high on that hasn't gotten the chance he thought he would). It's hard to see exactly how that would balance out, as Pittsburgh may not have the youth/picks to be involved w/ the Miller trade ultimately.

 

But that roster would look like:

 

Kapanen           Pettersson       Boeser

Kuzie                  Horvat           Podkolzin

Pearson            UFA/Trade    Hoglander

Highmore          Lammikko       Lockwood/UFA(Deslauriers being my favourite)

Hallander

 

Hughes          Marino

OEL               Myers

Rathbone      Dermott

Burroughs     Schenn

 

Demko    Martin

 

Maybe throw in a Malkin signing with a bonus-laden deal as suggested by @Provost and regain the forward depth lost in a Miller deal.

Totally agree.  I’m seeing both Miller and Garland as traded for sure.  And Myers will get moved to providing the return from Miller or Garland can replace his minutes.  Love to get both Marino and Kapanen.  Faster, and younger. 

[spook007]

7 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

The obvious one is that we've got plenty of good forwards but lacking right defencemen. I liked how we lined up rolling 3 lines under Bruce at times but I doubt we'll see that all season and will probably have Petey on the wing a lot of the season.

 

If that's the case, then we need a 3C and a top RD.

 

Trades are proving harder to make but for me, Miller is going to be impossible to move, but someone like Garland much easier. If there's a 1 for 1 Garland trade for a young RD top 4 guy then we take it. The obvious guy is Marino, I'd do that in a heart-beat, even if we have to add a pick.

 

Then for 3C there are plenty on the market but we'd have to dump some cap like Dickinson or Poolman. Ideally we'd sign someone like Tierney for 2.5-3M (considering Paul went for just over 3M) which is Dickinson money we'd have to dump. Sadly I think this is going to be less likely and we may just roll with Miller, Petey and Bo as our centers as a result. Ideally though we'd line up like this:

 

Pettersson - Miller - Boeser

Kuzmenko - Horvat - Podkolzin

Pearson - Tierney - Hoglander

Highmore - Lammikko - Lockwood

 

Hughes - Marino

OEL - Myers

Rathbone - Schenn

Dermott

This line up looks good... if we keep Miller

I would still like some more truculence in this line up though... Deslauriers or similar would fit the bill perfectly for me.

Give this a season, and if it doesn't work well enough defensively, Myers can be traded at next TDL, and we can get a more defence first player or two for his salary...

[Wolfgang Durst]

How do they get out of this massive hole Jim Benning created?

 

1. The draft picks (first round picks and second round picks which were traded away are gone. This has a significant adverse impact on the prospect pool. These picks are gone.

 

2. Benning era put the organization in awful situation in terms of cap space. Signings like Myers and Ekman Larsson proved to be bad contracts and Jim Rutherford and Patrick Allvin know that both contracts are untradeable.

 

3. Prospect pool is thin. Lots of propects didn't make it to the big stage. Second round picks for Gadjovich and Lind turned out to be useless. Woo, who was drafted in 2018 in the second round still playing in the AHL. Madden traded away together with a second round pick for a very limited number of games from Toffoli.

 

4. The fact that a player like Tanner Pearson has been playing in the top six is quite telling.

 

What needs to be done? - in this order -

 

1. top priority for additions to the roster should be the character / the personality of a player

2. Bruce and his team need to establish the right culture to make that the team plays the right way.

3. Create cap space

4. sign a legitimate top 4 D-Man for the right side

5. add goaltending depth

6. hire the best development coach being available

 

Several months ago I posted in the thread "leadership" that leadership is about asking the right questions. Asking the right questions will lead Jim and Patrick to one of the root causes for this fXXXing disaster: the impatience of ownership. Benning has been taken lots of shortcuts to build a contender, but miserably failed to do so.

getting out of this hole will take at least two years.

[Fanuck]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Kuzmenko        Pettersson       Boeser

Pearson           Miller                Podkolzin

Hoglander        Horvat              Garland

Dickinson         Lammikko        Highmore

Dowling

 

Hughes          Schenn

OEL               Myers

Dermott         Poolman

Rathbone      Burroughs 

 

Demko    Martin⁹

I know this is a little simplistic analysis,  and in reality it's a bit more involved,  but what this roster tells me is that it's virtually the same as last season,  and last season's roster simply wasn't good enough. 

 

Kuzmenko is an unknown but benefit of the doubt and say he's a 15pt or so upgrade on Chaisson.   Rathbone is going to need time but again,  benefit of the doubt and say he fills Hunt's spot.  Then Martin replaces Halak and that's hopefully a slight upgrade too.

 

As I said,  virtually the same roster and we are banking on Miller equalling a career year and Demko bailing us out every night to stay competitive. 

 

I understand people will point to the 2nd half record and say we're a playoff team, and there'll be improvements from within (Pids/Hog) and such?  

 

Haven't even mentioned the lack of any meaningful prospects in the system or the succession plan to upgrade the d.

 

I see significant changes forthcoming (Miller trade) which address both size/skill/youth on d and forward. 

[Zhukini]

Petey will turn 24 this year, you have to be good enough to make the finals in the next 4 years or this has been a waste of a decade.

 

Trade Miller, get rid of the anchors. 
Get it right. 

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, Zhukini said:

Petey will turn 24 this year, you have to be good enough to make the finals in the next 4 years or this has been a waste of a decade.

 

Trade Miller, get rid of the anchors. 
Get it right. 

Or go all in for these next four years, and then do the deep diving rebuild after?  Lots of excellent trade pieces in four years too: Demko, Hughes, Petey, Pods.  Bo and Miller (signing seven year deals beginning in 2023) can be the experience to mentor the new, young guys.  

[Zhukini]

19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Or go all in for these next four years, and then do the deep diving rebuild after?  Lots of excellent trade pieces in four years too: Demko, Hughes, Petey, Pods.  Bo and Miller (signing seven year deals beginning in 2023) can be the experience to mentor the new, young guys.  

They have no prospects to trade, no picks to trade and barely any young players coming up. The Kings have the assets to go all in. We do not. 

 

Even if we try to add pieces year after year there are so many problems with this roster they'll just be humbled by teams with a lan each time they get in. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Zhukini said:

They have no prospects to trade, no picks to trade and barely any young players coming up. The Kings have the assets to go all in. We do not. 

 

Even if we try to add pieces year after year there are so many problems with this roster they'll just be humbled by teams with a lan each time they get in. 

Benning sure messed up things.  Our owner should have allowed Gillis to rebuild when it was recommended instead of bringing in Jim “No Plan”. 

Now we are kind of screwed.  Not good enough to be a true Cup contender (like those great Gillis teams) and not bad enough to get into the bottom five (like the horrid Benning teams.) 

[Fred65]

29 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Benning sure messed up things.  Our owner should have allowed Gillis to rebuild when it was recommended instead of bringing in Jim “No Plan”. 

Now we are kind of screwed.  Not good enough to be a true Cup contender (like those great Gillis teams) and not bad enough to get into the bottom five (like the horrid Benning teams.) 

Isn't that the truth, we're firmly entrenched in no mans land. Not good enough to get a top 5 pick in the draft but just beyond doing damage in the play-offs. Gillis regretfully was too over whelming intelectually for Aquaman and he didn't like it. So we've wandred around no mans land for 8 year. What a waste

Edited July 2, 2022 by Fred65

[BarnBurner]

25 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Benning sure messed up things.  Our owner should have allowed Gillis to rebuild when it was recommended instead of bringing in Jim “No Plan”. 

Now we are kind of screwed.  Not good enough to be a true Cup contender (like those great Gillis teams) and not bad enough to get into the bottom five (like the horrid Benning teams.) 

I agree the rebuild should have began in 2013, but Gillis wasn't the guy to oversee that. Other than Horvat, his drafting record was horrible. 

 

Benning made many mistakes but his group were able to draft Hughes, Petey, Demko, Podkolzin, etc... and trade for Miller. 

 

Let's pray this new management group can put together the team that wins us our first Stanley Cup. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

I agree the rebuild should have began in 2013, but Gillis wasn't the guy to oversee that. Other than Horvat, his drafting record was horrible. 

 

Benning made many mistakes but his group were able to draft Hughes, Petey, Demko, Podkolzin, etc... and trade for Miller. 

 

Let's pray this new management group can put together the team that wins us our first Stanley Cup. 

How many top 10 picks did Gillis have?  Who did he pick?  Gillis did a masterful job of building around an existing core to create our (obviously) best teams ever.  That was his mandate from ownership, and he did it great.  Benning’s era has us in a total mess.  A mess where the smartest moves would be to trade away Miller and (later) Bo.  Pretty much we need to retool around the core three so often mentioned by JR: Petey, Hughes, Demko.