[Signing] Canucks re-sign J.T. Miller

[Fanuck]

16 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

I don't see rutherford and co selling off our 1st rounders for the forseeable future, so I bet this is the direction they go.

This is what they've said publicly,  however if changes aren't made with the defense personnel,  we could potentially (calm people, that means maybe) be looking at wasting multiple years of parts of this core's prime not to mention several years of the newly inked JT contract.   

 

They can't shed cap, they already tried as JR discussed. 

They can't make meaningful trades with defense,  they tried as JR discussed. 

We have virtually nothing in the minors worth waiting for to bolster blueline (Rathbone unknown notwithstanding).

 

As such, present situation leads strongly towards spending draft capital to both shed cap and bolster RHD (maybe they swing a hockey trade involving a winger for a rhd, but if that was possible it would've likely already happened,  no?).  Otherwise we're simply status quo hoping 2 unknown Russians can be difference makers and Demko can withstand an entire season of getting shelled on a nightly basis. 

[-DLC-]

 

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, Attila Umbrus said:

Thanks, this is well explained AV. I understand your position in all this now firmly. You have some great points. We are at where we are at now and need to move forward. There is still retooling needed to be done, there will be contract hang ups, but I have faith that this will turn out in our favor. We have a very experienced head office now and I think that will pay off going through these tough waters in how to become a true cup champion.

 

I agree the "just make the playoffs" mentality is a cover up for a poor team trying to over aspire. However, you can't argue some of that mantra does hold true. It's worked for teams in the past, I always think of LA's 8th seed storm to the cup as a great example. Yes LA became a power house of their own, but it all started with the mantra of "anything can happen" if you make it to the dance...from there they built themselves beyond that point and into the contenders they eventually become and won a second cup 2 years later again. I guess my point is that it is okay to have that mantra to start, but as you alluded to you can't just keep staying in that zone if you want to be true perennial cup contenders. That's the next big challenge after that.

 

I look to Chicago and Pittsburgh for those models and how they built themselves past that point. IMO we have a 2 year window with the contracts we have to perform to those expectations, make the playoffs, see what happens, make some noise hopefully. Will see how it all pans out. We definitely need to shore that defense up but it''s serviceable for now, and we have a bit of time to re-tool it. As you said, it's all gotta go right...but I so far have liked JR and companies "cool hand" approach on what to do next. I actually feel there is a solid plan starting to take place, where as Benning's regime we seen a less confident front office group, getting bossed around in trades and such. I did not like that...Hello Hamhuis. I actually feel like under this regime we won't lose our assets for nothing anymore. Refreshing.

 

38 minutes ago, AV. said:

Thing is, LA is not a great example for that mantra, though, because they had already made the playoffs the two previous seasons (finished 6th in 2009/10 and 7th in 2010/11 in the Western Conference standings) and made subsequent moves in the 2011 off-season to continue building and take the next step for the 2011/12 season. 

Already at the 2011 TDL, they made a big play for Dustin Penner.  Moved Colton Teubert (former 1st) + 2011 1st

Obviously, they made a huge trade to get Mike Richards a few months later in 2011 off-season.  Moved Wayne Simmonds (young, effective roster player ATT) + Brayden Schenn (former 1st and top 5 pick)

And of course, brought in Jeff Carter at the 2012 TDL.   Moved Jack Johnson (young, top-4 defenceman ATT) + 2013 1st

They were operating like a team that expected to go far and win now, not simply continue making the playoffs and hoping to go on a run.  This was always the case with LA - they were just in a false position for most of that season, and really, most of their competitive window.  Upon inspection, we can see they finished 5th in the Western Conference standings in 2012/13 [made WCF], and finished 3rd in the pacific/6th in the overall Western Conference standings in 2013/14 [won the cup].  In hindsight, I think it's clear they did not care to prioritize where the finished in the regular season during those years, and chose to bring their best in the post-season.  

If we can take anything from LA is that if you want to win, you have to be prepared to move significant futures and make the tough trades involving young roster players to get the clear upgrades and talented players.  That leaves us with a few questions:  Are the Canucks willing to be as aggressive and shrewd to mount a serious challenge?  If they are, do they have enough assets and capital to actually pull it off.  I can't speak for the first one, but I will say we don't have nearly enough that think we do to actually carry out the second one.  Therefore, this extension becomes pretty problematic.

I'll end on some positivity by saying that between Allvin and Benning going all in, I do believe Allvin has surrounded himself with many more voices that offer diversity in experience, outlook, and perspective than Benning would have chosen to surround himself with, and I would trust his version of going all-in than I ever could with the previous regime.

Yeah LA is a bad example. They definitely were building themselves up prior to that season. Getting Carter at the trade deadline made them a true contender.

 

If we are in the playoff race and add Kane, Mackinnon, Pastrnak, or Tarasenko, and Severson/Dumba, somehow it could be a similar situation. Carter and Richards put them over the top though. We haven't added that level of player yet to a team that had already made the playoffs twice.

[BPA]

26 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Me too.  I wanted to either retool or give the current group the best chance to win possible.  That first is likely to be too far away from meaningful contributions during the team's window.  Dickinson and a 2024 first for a quality defensive RHD with some term would be great.

Don’t think Dickinson + 1st will get a quality RHD.  More likely Boeser/Garland + 1st will get that much needed RHD.

[Mustard Tiger]

4 minutes ago, Rindiculous said:

What is everyone's problem?  The guy gets signed and everyone is now getting into 'he can still get traded'.  Now I get the sarcasm what this is such a stupid take noone in their right mind trades a guy after they've signed him long term unless it was known before.  It's stupid, nonsensical, and image suicide.

In theory it could happen. Delayed sign and trade. We would be setting new standards left right and center! 

[Master Mind]

1 hour ago, Rindiculous said:

I was never really that high on Fiala personally.  Like yah he's a top 6 player, but I consider him quite inconsistent like Boeser.  The x-factor for the Wild is Kirill Kaprizov.  That guy is insane and really could be in the conversation with Mcdavid or Mackinnon as one of the top 3 players in the league for the next 10 years.  He's only ever gotten better year after year.  That was what the Wild had been missing up until they got him.  But now with that superstar at forward on their roster, with a great defense, and a solid goaltender, they stack up with any contender.  But every team has holes.  Yes their forward depth is not very good to atrocious and they really have screwed themselves with their dead cap otherwise they would easily be a top 5 team in the league.  However, their defense and goaltender are world class plus they showed last year just how good they were.

Fair enough. I agree Kaprizov is a difference maker, and their D and goaltending are set (although I'm not as confident in Fleury anymore).

 

Every team has holes, but it's usually not at centre for the top teams. They remind me of Vegas (pre Eichel) as being a solid team in many areas except C.

 

I think the Wild are still a playoff team, but I'd be surprised and impressed if they could win a cup with Hartman as their 1C.

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, BPA said:

Don’t think Dickinson + 1st will get a quality RHD.  More likely Boeser/Garland + 1st will get that much needed RHD.

I'm open to that as well, although I strongly prefer to keep Boeser.

[Wanless]

5 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

 

I dont have twitter

 

but I’m gonna say Podkolzin with maybe Mikayev as a regular

 

 

[Junkyard Dog]

4 minutes ago, BPA said:

Don’t think Dickinson + 1st will get a quality RHD.  More likely Boeser/Garland + 1st will get that much needed RHD.

Given the market, I think you need picks, prospects and cap space to get players. That’s what we’ve seen lately. 
 

Most teams just want to clear cap while getting assets. 

[BPA]

Just now, King Heffy said:

I'm open to that as well, although I strongly prefer to keep Boeser.

I think Boeser will be kept over Garland.  Since he was just recently re-signed.  But had to put Boeser name out there to appease the Garland fans.

 

Lol.

[Alflives]

3 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Fortunately our current management all have functioning brains and don't have a history of destroying a franchise, unlike Gillis.  They've been given a decent core of talent; now it's time for them to finish the job.  We are lucky that the damage Gillis caused to the franchise has mostly been erased with the end of the Luongo penalty, but should be mindful of how crippling it can be to allow someone that stupid to run your hockey team.

Yup.  That Gillis and his Presidents’ trophies and game seven of the Cup Final was just awful.  Unlike the great Benning.  LMAAOAROTF. 

[King Heffy]

Just now, Alflives said:

Yup.  That Gillis and his Presidents’ trophies and game seven of the Cup Final was just awful.  Unlike the great Benning.  LMAAOAROTF. 

Where did I say Benning did a great job?  We've been over this, but Gillis got that far based mostly on the roster that was gifted to him by actual hockey people and he subsequently destroyed the franchise with his complete inability to evaluate players.  Fortunately, we have hired multiple people who actually understand the game unlike that unqualified imbecile.  Management is not a binary process.

[-DLC-]

4 minutes ago, Wanless said:

I dont have twitter

 

but I’m gonna say Podkolzin with maybe Mikayev as a regular

 

 

That's what I said too (and it's leading at 59%)

[MeanSeanBean]

5 minutes ago, Wanless said:

I dont have twitter

 

but I’m gonna say Podkolzin with maybe Mikayev as a regular

 

 

Neither do I. I don't think any of those are correct though. Kuzmenko and Pearson in my eyes are Miller's winger's. Pearson and Miller played some of their best hockey together. Both are responsible and willing to do the hard work on the boards and could help shelter Kuzmenko while he learns the NA game.

 

Funny enough, neither are an option.

[Nurnge]

Signing Miller and if we can get Horvat signed will change the narrative that we will have to trade away at the TDL this year to , if all goes well Maybe bringing in that Rental RHD at the deadline [ Just hopefully not for a 1st or 2nd round pick ]  . I do love this signing thought he would get a lot way more not in Van . OK now sign Bo !!!

[DeNiro]

31 minutes ago, AV. said:

Incorrect.  Paul Holmgren was the GM until 2014 before hiring Ron Hextall and moving into a POHO role.  Remained with the Flyers front office until his retirement circa 2018, now serves as an advisor.

Many players (both employed by the Flyers and unrestricted in free agency) continued to join the Flyers whilst he was in charge.

2 years after making the trade he was never a GM again.

 

I would call that a short time.

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by DeNiro

[AV.]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

2 years after making the trade he was never a GM again.

 

I would call that a short time.

 

He was never a GM again because he got a promotion lol.

The point still stands that, even after his Carter trade, the Flyers didn't suffer in the re-signing or free-agency department.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

2 years after making the trade he was never a GM again.

 

I would call that a short time.

 

I wouldn't tell that to Paul Holmgren to his face though.   Even though he's now 66 years old, I'm sure he's still one mean mother@%#@$%#$%.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

If both Rathbone and Dermott are a bit better than are projected that would help.

 

I'm really curious about a Dermott-Myers pairing and if that can function similar to OEL-Myers. Dermott can retrieve and pass well, Myers.... well he is what he is so if he can avoid throwing pucks up the middle and just carry it out with his size maybe we're OK.

 

I see this now as two playoff 1st, maybe 2nd round appearances and then we're cooking with these guys. Miller should still be young enough and Podz should be in full beast mode, and we will have the cap to really bring in some quality right side d.

It's nice to see Dermott in early and speaking with BB about the upcoming year. Looks like he's really serious about taking it the next level. I think he gets he has a real opportunity here. 

 

Yup, nothing left to do now but sit back and see how the team performs. Hopefully we make the playoffs as that is now an expectation for this group. It won't kill us if we don't but what we do at RD in the next couple of years will make or break this squad's chances. I have faith they will get something done. I hope we're blown away with the results and get a top notch D in but just the right parts can also work.

 

I don't even like to mention it but Pods is probably the one younger guy that could garner a huge return if we get desperate enough. Sometimes that's the kind of sacrifice you need to win now but I would be very sad too.

[DeNiro]

3 minutes ago, AV. said:

He was never a GM again because he got a promotion lol.

The point still stands that, even after his Carter trade, the Flyers didn't suffer in the re-signing or free-agency department.

“Promotion” to get him out of that role, lol.

 

And because the Flyers did it it means we wanna be that type of team? I guarantee Rutherford and co have more class than that. 
 

The Flyers have been brutal since that trade. Bad karma for a team that could have had a much longer window.