Fire Rutherford & Allvin

[Nucker 67]

27 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I hope FA bites his bride

This sounds like something Adam Gaudette would do 

[Timråfan]

If only fans here had treated Benning this way.

Then I Wouldn’t have heard of him at all since I got here with Petey. 
Benning would be done and dusted two years before. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Timråfan

[Westcoasting]

2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

If only fans here had treated Benning this way.

Then I Wouldn’t have heard of him at all since I got here with Petey. 
Benning would be done and dusted two years before. 

It’s hard to believe that Benning  lasted as long as he did… but just like a lot of fans on this forum who kept thinking we were just a couple pieces away from being a good teal I suppose the owner thought the same!

[ktcy2]

Please fire them both morons! They suck they are arrogant, incompetent, incapable. Now they are trying to ruin our franchise even more by hiring the bum Tocchet. Old boys club all they do is hire their friends and a few females for show. They just don’t want any opposing voices in there so they hired Granato and Castonguay - who are both rookie managers. Please….. fire their asses!

[Wayne Jetski]

I’m not even convinced they’re real. They’ve done zilch. 

[guntrix]

Officially on the bandwagon. 

[stawns]

12 hours ago, Angry Goose said:

Ive thought for awhile Ill be patient till the TDL / off season.  Allvin has problems inherited from the previous roster, decisions made before was hired (I do think it’s fair to say PA didnt get to choose his coach) but a lot of problems created as well.  

 

So Im still on the fence at this point.

The problems he inherited are short term, a season or two at the most.  They had an easy path to follow after JB and they botched it hard, by their own hand.  They have no one to blame but themselves.......as hard as they try to deflect the blame onto JB

[Westcoasting]

It’s going to be a couple years just to get the cap issues straightened out league wide so trades are doable ounce afgain, everything is so tough right now and no one can take on any salary. 

[alt kilgore]

Its been one year people.

 

I'm as frustrated as the next fan how JR is doing some of the same things as his predecessor, JB, the worst GM in the history of the Canucks. But lets not get ahead of ourselves.  He's made mistakes, but the carry over from the Benning era will take years to unravel. 

 

Dealing with Benning's mess he left the team with is not an instant fix.  I agree that some of the moves, in hindsight, were not the smartest. Like signing Miller and re-signing Boeser.  And the second round pick traded away for Stillman.  But they've also had some good acquisitions and signings, Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, Bear, as well as finding more reasonable priced third/fourth liners.

 

I will also defend the signings of Miller and Boeser to a degree.  I would have preferred getting some futures we desperately need.  But in context, IF the management, and ownership had decided on a full rebuild, I agree those signings would be dumb as a glowing puck.  But JR had obviously come to the conclusion that the team was salvageable, and we had gone so far in depleting young assets, that it would be more worth the gamble to continue on at that point, with a better, smarter, kind of retool. 

 

So if it was a retool, then I can understand how it made some sense to not let go our top point producer in JT that we sacrificed a 1st and 3rd for, leave.  Even to sign him over our Captain, who had roughly half as many points, and didn't look to improve on that much.  JT also brought a new kind of energy and passion of winning to the team. We still need good players to sign here.  And the contract is not unreasonable.

With Boeser, again in hindsight, I think most here thought that Boeser would have a much better season, with the tragedy back home being less of a distraction, and a shiny new contract to play for. Obviously management thought so too.

 

And the hope also was that Poolman and Dermott would shore up our D enough to be at least adequate. And Demko would be in the form we had grown to expect. Expectations that OEL would carry on playing okay like last season was expected as well.

 

I think a lot of the frustration is displaced and most of that still should be laid on the previous management and ownership.  Its like blaming a political party one year into a term after the previous government screwed the economy up so bad that it will take multiple years to correct.  I gave Benning about 4 or 5 seasons before I started raising concerns.  I can at least give JR a couple more seasons here to try and right the ship

 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Its been one year people.

 

I'm as frustrated as the next fan how JR is doing some of the same things as his predecessor, JB, the worst GM in the history of the Canucks. But lets not get ahead of ourselves.  He's made mistakes, but the carry over from the Benning era will take years to unravel. 

 

Dealing with Benning's mess he left the team with is not an instant fix.  I agree that some of the moves, in hindsight, were not the smartest. Like signing Miller and re-signing Boeser.  And the second round pick traded away for Stillman.  But they've also had some good acquisitions and signings, Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, Bear, as well as finding more reasonable priced third/fourth liners.

 

I will also defend the signings of Miller and Boeser to a degree.  I would have preferred getting some futures we desperately need.  But in context, IF the management, and ownership had decided on a full rebuild, I agree those signings would be dumb as a glowing puck.  But JR had obviously come to the conclusion that the team was salvageable, and we had gone so far in depleting young assets, that it would be more worth the gamble to continue on at that point, with a better, smarter, kind of retool. 

 

So if it was a retool, then I can understand how it made some sense to not let go our top point producer in JT that we sacrificed a 1st and 3rd for, leave.  Even to sign him over our Captain, who had roughly half as many points, and didn't look to improve on that much.  JT also brought a new kind of energy and passion of winning to the team. We still need good players to sign here.  And the contract is not unreasonable.

With Boeser, again in hindsight, I think most here thought that Boeser would have a much better season, with the tragedy back home being less of a distraction, and a shiny new contract to play for. Obviously management thought so too.

 

And the hope also was that Poolman and Dermott would shore up our D enough to be at least adequate. And Demko would be in the form we had grown to expect. Expectations that OEL would carry on playing okay like last season was expected as well.

 

I think a lot of the frustration is displaced and most of that still should be laid on the previous management and ownership.  Its like blaming a political party one year into a term after the previous government screwed the economy up so bad that it will take multiple years to correct.  I gave Benning about 4 or 5 seasons before I started raising concerns.  I can at least give JR a couple more seasons here to try and right the ship

 

 

 

 

I agree, but it’s hard to “right a ship” when the admiral refuses to allow the captain to implement a change in course.  

Alf is producing his own comedy act with himself as Aquilini and a puppet as JR.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Alflives

[24K PureCool]

4 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Its been one year people.

 

I'm as frustrated as the next fan how JR is doing some of the same things as his predecessor, JB, the worst GM in the history of the Canucks. But lets not get ahead of ourselves.  He's made mistakes, but the carry over from the Benning era will take years to unravel. 

 

Dealing with Benning's mess he left the team with is not an instant fix.  I agree that some of the moves, in hindsight, were not the smartest. Like signing Miller and re-signing Boeser.  And the second round pick traded away for Stillman.  But they've also had some good acquisitions and signings, Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, Bear, as well as finding more reasonable priced third/fourth liners.

 

I will also defend the signings of Miller and Boeser to a degree.  I would have preferred getting some futures we desperately need.  But in context, IF the management, and ownership had decided on a full rebuild, I agree those signings would be dumb as a glowing puck.  But JR had obviously come to the conclusion that the team was salvageable, and we had gone so far in depleting young assets, that it would be more worth the gamble to continue on at that point, with a better, smarter, kind of retool. 

 

So if it was a retool, then I can understand how it made some sense to not let go our top point producer in JT that we sacrificed a 1st and 3rd for, leave.  Even to sign him over our Captain, who had roughly half as many points, and didn't look to improve on that much.  JT also brought a new kind of energy and passion of winning to the team. We still need good players to sign here.  And the contract is not unreasonable.

With Boeser, again in hindsight, I think most here thought that Boeser would have a much better season, with the tragedy back home being less of a distraction, and a shiny new contract to play for. Obviously management thought so too.

 

And the hope also was that Poolman and Dermott would shore up our D enough to be at least adequate. And Demko would be in the form we had grown to expect. Expectations that OEL would carry on playing okay like last season was expected as well.

 

I think a lot of the frustration is displaced and most of that still should be laid on the previous management and ownership.  Its like blaming a political party one year into a term after the previous government screwed the economy up so bad that it will take multiple years to correct.  I gave Benning about 4 or 5 seasons before I started raising concerns.  I can at least give JR a couple more seasons here to try and right the ship

 

 

 

 

No just no. 

The only bad contract with long term consequence was OEL when Benning left.

 

Instead of course correcting and trying to solve the cap issue, they doubled down with Miller leaving us with a new long term albatross. So instead of solving the cap they made the situation worse. 

 

But that is not the worst of it. This constant drama with this team all stems from this management group. Benning have nothing to do with it. Trying to blame all the anger at Benning instead of this management is disingenuous.

 

If it is just losing and no Miller extension than sure. They probably need a year or two to sort this out but the constant drama and doubling down is all on JR and PA. They own it and deserves to be fired for it. 

[MtnHockeyGuy]

I specifically didn't mention signings, standings, or statistics in my initial post because those are all very polarizing topics. For example - I 100% agreed with the JT Miller signing. He's had amazing years for us, and I am still ok with it. Some players on the team are thriving, JT is still having a really solid year. The TEAM is not. So I am not about to judge players in the midst of this hurricane that is happening with the entire franchise. (Not everyone is going to agree with the take on JT, so I didn't mention it initially). 

 

I don't care where we place this year right now. I'd love a lottery pick. I'd love to get into playoffs. 

 

What is bothering me is this CULTURE and the constant RED FLAGS that keep coming up on this management's watch. 

 

Combined with our season standings, this culture that is being set and the red flags that are constantly coming up would be MORE than enough for me to can this management group, take the loss, and start over again. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by MtnHockeyGuy

[Bathgate]

13 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

Your passion and frustration are clearly evident, and with good reasons that you have described well. What was packaged to we fans was a superstar front office, with not only a GM but three assistants, none of who are allowed to speak on the record. Allvin seems to be a marionette and never says anything that hasn't been thoroughly vetted by the club PR people. Rutherford appears to use the "management by walking around" model and there are way too many cooks in the kitchen. I have been around enough bureaucracy in my life and career that my spidey senses were alarmed when this whole thing started. While it sounds great to have several points of view and skill sets, what often happens is paralysis by analysis and nothing gets done. After all is said and done, there is always far more said than done. Now, Allvin has made some decent moves but, as so many have remarked, changing the bottom six forwards and bottom pairing defence doesn't move the needle.

 

I don't know if the Aquilinis have similar problems in their other businesses, but if they ran their other empire like they run the Canucks they'd be broke. Their search for effective management and coaching has been one disaster after another. (IMHO Gillis was the only smart hire they ever made, and I am aware that thousands of you hate the guy with a passion) Our old friend Alf mentions every other day or so that the owner is pulling the strings. Well, if he is, he's not doing a very good job at all. I mean, who hires a coach before hiring a President AND a GM?

 

But try to imagine being Francesco, a guy who wants nothing more than to win a Stanley Cup but has no clue how to hire the right people to do the job. I know I am on a bit of a rant here, but those who know what I write will also know that I have been generally supportive of management because it is such a difficult job, and having been in a position of authority for longer than I care to remember, I know that no matter how diligent you are, and how committed you are, and how effective you are, there will always be those that hate you for no other reason than being in a position of authority consists of having a big fat target on your chest every fricking day. So I have always been sympathetic to management and coaching, but I'm done with loyal support. I think that Rutherford's depth of experience and track record should translate into a winning team. It has not, so he has to go. I don't know too many septugenarians who have been able to follow a bad year with a good one, so I don't believe Rutherford can turn the ship around before it sinks out of sight. Sorry, Jim, but your time is past and please leave before you compound the problems by hiring Rick Tocchet.

 We are in a period of insanity since the firing of Linden, doing the same policy over and over to get a different result.

[DSVII]

44 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

No just no. 

The only bad contract with long term consequence was OEL when Benning left.

 

Instead of course correcting and trying to solve the cap issue, they doubled down with Miller leaving us with a new long term albatross. So instead of solving the cap they made the situation worse. 

 

But that is not the worst of it. This constant drama with this team all stems from this management group. Benning have nothing to do with it. Trying to blame all the anger at Benning instead of this management is disingenuous.

 

If it is just losing and no Miller extension than sure. They probably need a year or two to sort this out but the constant drama and doubling down is all on JR and PA. They own it and deserves to be fired for it. 

Yes.

 

Timing is everything with cap space it's not just OEL. It's Sbisa making us lose Hamhuis, Myers forcing out space for Tanev. It's Loui/Roussel/Beagle forcing us to walk away from Toffoli....JB just had a knack for loading up cap space at the wrong time.  

 

ignoring the damage Benning has done to this franchise not only from a locker room culture standpoint (losing leaders like edler, Tanev for nothing), front office standpoint,(Weisbrod's nepotism , letting Brackett/Burnstein/Gilman go) salary cap construction, prospect pool (picking just twice in the first two rounds in 3 years, 10oa and 12+ mil in cap for a deadweight OEL and underperformed Garland.) It's more disingenuous to forget taking that into context.

 

So yes. This management team gets a little more time from me. But not much. 

 

It's amazing how hyperfocused people are that they dug the hole five feet deeper when they started in a fifty foot trench. This is misplaced frustration over the realization that the last decade didn't work out. 

 

Of course, it probably doesnt matter who to blame, JR or JB as long as Aqua is the owner. Because even if they are fired. Will anyone competent and qualified even want to work under Aqua?

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by DSVII

[RU SERIOUS]

Who is PA? 

[Coconuts]

Francesco may as well just play GM at this point out in the open 

 

Why even hire someone 

[DSVII]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

Francesco may as well just play GM at this point out in the open 

 

Why even hire someone 

The Jerry Jones of hockey 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Yes.

 

Timing is everything it's not just OEL. It's Sbisa making us lose Hamhuis, Myers forcing out space for Tanev. It's Loui/Roussel/Beagle forcing us to walk away from Toffoli....JB just had a knack for loading up cap space at the wrong time.  

 

ignoring the damage Benning has done to this franchise not only from a locker room culture standpoint (losing leaders like edler, Tanev for nothing), front office standpoint,(Weisbrod's nepotism , letting Brackett/Burnstein/Gilman go) salary cap construction, prospect pool (picking just once in the first two rounds in 3 years, 10oa and 12+ mil in cap for a deadweight OEL and underperformed Garland.) It's more disingenuous to forget taking that into context.

 

So yes. This management team gets a little more time from me. But not much. 

 

It's amazing how hyperfocused people are that they dug the hole five feet deeper when they started in a fifty foot trench. This is misplaced frustration over the realization that the last decade didn't work out. 

 

Of course, it probably doesnt matter who to blame, JR or JB as long as Aqua is the owner. Because even if they are fired. Will anyone competent and qualified even want to work under Aqua?

 

Exactly! Aquilini is a masterful puppeteer.  

 

 

 

[DSVII]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Exactly! Aquilini is a masterful puppeteer.  

 

 

 

Can't forget PA and company

 

[stawns]

5 hours ago, Timråfan said:

If only fans here had treated Benning this way.

Then I Wouldn’t have heard of him at all since I got here with Petey. 
Benning would be done and dusted two years before. 

I'm fine with it, I think JB did a much better job and had a far clearer plan