Joni Jurmo? He’s our best prospect in the system, he should make the team

[ilduce39]

The prospect pool isn’t great but there are some highly athletic long shots who could really pan out.  Throw Raty in that mix, too.  We really shot for the moon recently with guys like Jurmo and Klimovich. 

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Let's not overstate the significance of JR's tenure here. A lot of the AHL players that are performing, namely Hoglander, Podkolzin, Klimovich are all Benning picks. Benning set this foundation. The so-called dirty work was in progress under Benning, but JR/Allvin, to their credit, have much better success with the pro scouts. I do believe that some of the staff from the Benning periods have continued to operate under JR/Allvin, considering they mentioned that the Canuck scouts liked Raty in 2021.

 

This is not so much a Benning vs JR thing. Each GM has contributed in some way. The NHL core was set by Benning, without a doubt. Without Benning/Delorme, there'd be no Pettersson.

Actually that string goes all the way back to the 80's Canucks (EP).    If we really want to get into the details.   Timrafan can explain lol.  Kudos for Delorme being convinced once he went and saw him play ... pretty sure we'd have Glass without that tip though.   

[HorvatToBaertschi]

Hard to see how Jurmo surpasses a couple of our prospects, most notably Podkolzin, Raty, Klimovich and Silovs, but I do appreciate you starting this thread! I had no idea Jurmo was a 6 foot 4 Hughes-lite. His passing and decision-making isn't as solid, and he misses a lot of his shots ala Myers, but the tools are all there.

 

I'd go personally

 

Podkolzin 

Klimovich

Silovs

Raty

Jurmo

 

You could put McDonough somehwere in there too, I don't think he'd be out of place.

[spook007]

13 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

He has 9 points, in 40 games and -10.

I wouldn't write him off, but is he really any different than a lot of defensive prospects?

Jett Woo has 9 points in 40 games with Abby, and 0 +/-, and is a right handed shot, and has 57 PIM's.

 

Let's see him here in training camp or the AHL and see how he does.

While I hope Woo makes it, as he was my favorite prospect, Jurmo is 2 years younger, so who knows. 
I will be interesting to see him in next years training camp. 
@6'4 he is definitely a very interesting prospect. Especially if he can play proper D. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

While I hope Woo makes it, as he was my favorite prospect, Jurmo is 2 years younger, so who knows. 
I will be interesting to see him in next years training camp. 
@6'4 he is definitely a very interesting prospect. Especially if he can play proper D. 

The D Pettersson looks like a good one too. Maybe better? 

[AnthonyG]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 How many prospects actually developed in Utica under Benning?  Demko?  I can’t think of any others to be honest. I could be wrong though. I know we had some guys that jumped right to the NHL, but you need to develop those 2nd and 3rd round picks in order to be a successful franchise.  

So this is the part that is infuriating for me with this fan base. How many of Bennings picks NEEDED to be in the minors? Or better yet, how many of our picks could we actually afford to put in the minors, with next to no NHL roster players? Would it satisfy everyones needs if

Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes, Gaudette, Hoglander, Podkolzin etc all spent time one season in the AHL? Also Virtanen WAS sent down to spend a season on development. He wasnt afraid to do it, problem is, there was no NHL talent in our system to beat any of those named players, out of a job. They earned a spot.

 

This is what the difference is between the day Benning walked into this organization, to the day he was fired.

 

1) he walked into Vancouver with virtually NO prospects

 

2) the team was basically washed up and done and had disgruntled players wanting out and several other immovable bodies or low value players to shop to gain any prospects or high end picks to draft and develop.

3) the majority of JB’s picks were impact players at the NHL level, they skipped the farm system and filled in on the NHL roster that severely lacked talent and youth. So yes we didnt see any AHL development, instead we saw sheltered development at the NHL level, just as we did with the twins. We were able to monitor and shelter their development in the NHL because of the players surrounding them. Which is why Benning built a veteran presence around our youth, specifically targeting Stanley cup winners or guys who played at a high level on top teams. He sheltered our players in the NHL and so far, they are all turning out to be pretty solid players. Meanwhile, his next waves of draft picks were going to Utica or staying overseas to develop. OJ was a player that unfortunately suffered major setbacks strictly due to injuries. Otherwise he was on a very solid development path, going from the OHL to SM-liiga to the AHL, but injuries along the way really got in the way. 
 

 

Just tell me who we had on the Canucks between 2014-2019 outside of our youth, that would have been suitable roster players to hold down a spot to allow for development in the minors with guys like Boeser, Pettersson, McCann, Hughes, Virtanen, Gaudette etc. 

 

Vancouver was an empty organization, both at the NHL level and outside of the NHL. We built a team first and we have finally locked in a core that will keep guys in the minors to develop and Benning did that in only 7 years. That is truly remarkable that we were able to find the biggest pieces to win a cup some day, find supporting players as well as finally throw a few bodies in the AHL to develop. Like honestly just think about that. He had nothing of tremendous value to accelerate a rebuild. He had to sit and wait and draft patiently. 
 

Our core is still so bloody young and most of them havent even hit their athletic prime, Horvat just entered his and he was drafted in 2013. Our main core pieces were drafted 5 years ago. When they hit their prime, guys like Klim, Lekkermaki etc are going to be developed and ready to make their impacts at an NHL level and we’ll finally be in a spot where there is talent all over our organization and we so long as we arent afraid to make moves like the Horvats of this team etc, we can restock our system perpetually

 

[The Lock]

We're right now protecting Podkolzin and Hoglander in the AHL, giving them more of a winning atmosphere than the gong show that is the Canucks right now. I would agree with him coming over to the AHL at this point but not the NHL outright for the same reason the other 2 mentioned are in the AHL at the moment.

[MeanSeanBean]

I'm not going to try to claim I have watched a ton of Jurmo play. But I can say, with full confidence, that he is not the 2nd best defensemen in the Canucks organization behind Hughes nor our best prospect. He's not even our best defensive prospect, and that's an area we are super weak in.

 

We'll be fortunate of Jurmo plays games in the NHL, I'm not sure where this he's a superstar narrative came from. Unless it's satire, and I haven't had my coffee yet this morning.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Shayster007

[Primal Optimist]

15 hours ago, Odd. said:

Yes, I am that confident Jurmo is truly the best prospect we have.

He was ranked 20th on NHL central scouting and ranked 46th by EP, as well as 60th by Bob McKenzie.

He’s 6’4 198lbs. His skating ability, size, athleticism, physicality etc scouts rave about are evident. He is a true defensive defenseman with offensive instincts.
I’ll buy his ticket, this is the type of defenseman we need and he’s literally in our system!

At 20 years old, he has some time left to mature still, as most tall guys take a bit longer to fill out into their relatively new body dimensions and be comfortable in their own skin. He is 6'4" and has superb skating and good hands and as a northern euro player, a more north american physicality, which is great trait for the NHL blueline. I think he is our D prospect with the most runway for a stellar career, yeah, but I don't think he makes the jump next year to the Canucks. Maybe Abby to acclimate to North America and provide some language compatability for Aatu. 

 

I am excited to see what he brings to the club when he graduates the minors/overseas stuff, but he is holding his own among men in the LIiga right now and as a Dman, will be even better on our ice vs euro ice. 

[spook007]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

The D Pettersson looks like a good one too. Maybe better? 

Fun part in all of this is, maybe just maybe (with a bit of luck, obviously) we aren't that far away after all.... 4-6 years til they could potentially be game changers. 

Now wouldn't that surprise us all

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by spook007

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Primal Optimist said:

At 20 years old, he has some time left to mature still, as most tall guys take a bit longer to fill out into their relatively new body dimensions and be comfortable in their own skin. He is 6'4" and has superb skating and good hands and as a northern euro player, a more north american physicality, which is great trait for the NHL blueline. I think he is our D prospect with the most runway for a stellar career, yeah, but I don't think he makes the jump next year to the Canucks. Maybe Abby to acclimate to North America and provide some language compatability for Aatu. 

 

I am excited to see what he brings to the club when he graduates the minors/overseas stuff, but he is holding his own among men in the LIiga right now and as a Dman, will be even better on our ice vs euro ice. 

Yeah let see how he  does on NA ice first. 
lets not rush him, plenty of time to reach his potential. 

[BCNate]

We don't have much in the way of high end talent in our propesct pool, but I like the way it is shaping up, I feel we have far more talent than credit is given for.

 

NHL Ready or close, with potential to play up the lineup:

Podkolzin, Hoglander, Rathbone, Raty

 

NHL Ready or close, bottom of lineup:

Lockwood, Karlsson, Brisebois, Aman

 

Not next year, but comes with potential:

Johansson, Lekkerimaki, Klimovich, McDonaugh

 

Not next year, maybe never, but maybe:

Lockhart- Nice OA year in OHL

Kudryavtsev- Keep an eye on this kid, he is a heavy 18 YO D tearing up OHL.  7th rounder

Forsell- 7 rounder who is having a pretty good 19 yo season

D  EP-  18 YO D with size already playing well in SHL

Truscott- Solid Junior year with powerhouse Michigan team. Have to think he signs this year

Jurmo- Giant 20 YO D.  Probably gets a real long look due to size and skating

 

Add in a top 10, top 20 and top 40 pick to this group, and iit starts to look a fair bit better.  I hope that we develop this crew real slow, and hope that we end up with an unexpected later round gem that plays at the top of the lineup.

 

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

8 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

So this is the part that is infuriating for me with this fan base. How many of Bennings picks NEEDED to be in the minors? Or better yet, how many of our picks could we actually afford to put in the minors, with next to no NHL roster players? Would it satisfy everyones needs if

Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes, Gaudette, Hoglander, Podkolzin etc all spent time one season in the AHL? Also Virtanen WAS sent down to spend a season on development. He wasnt afraid to do it, problem is, there was no NHL talent in our system to beat any of those named players, out of a job. They earned a spot.

 

This is what the difference is between the day Benning walked into this organization, to the day he was fired.

 

1) he walked into Vancouver with virtually NO prospects

 

2) the team was basically washed up and done and had disgruntled players wanting out and several other immovable bodies or low value players to shop to gain any prospects or high end picks to draft and develop.

3) the majority of JB’s picks were impact players at the NHL level, they skipped the farm system and filled in on the NHL roster that severely lacked talent and youth. So yes we didnt see any AHL development, instead we saw sheltered development at the NHL level, just as we did with the twins. We were able to monitor and shelter their development in the NHL because of the players surrounding them. Which is why Benning built a veteran presence around our youth, specifically targeting Stanley cup winners or guys who played at a high level on top teams. He sheltered our players in the NHL and so far, they are all turning out to be pretty solid players. Meanwhile, his next waves of draft picks were going to Utica or staying overseas to develop. OJ was a player that unfortunately suffered major setbacks strictly due to injuries. Otherwise he was on a very solid development path, going from the OHL to SM-liiga to the AHL, but injuries along the way really got in the way. 
 

 

Just tell me who we had on the Canucks between 2014-2019 outside of our youth, that would have been suitable roster players to hold down a spot to allow for development in the minors with guys like Boeser, Pettersson, McCann, Hughes, Virtanen, Gaudette etc. 

 

Vancouver was an empty organization, both at the NHL level and outside of the NHL. We built a team first and we have finally locked in a core that will keep guys in the minors to develop and Benning did that in only 7 years. That is truly remarkable that we were able to find the biggest pieces to win a cup some day, find supporting players as well as finally throw a few bodies in the AHL to develop. Like honestly just think about that. He had nothing of tremendous value to accelerate a rebuild. He had to sit and wait and draft patiently. 
 

Our core is still so bloody young and most of them havent even hit their athletic prime, Horvat just entered his and he was drafted in 2013. Our main core pieces were drafted 5 years ago. When they hit their prime, guys like Klim, Lekkermaki etc are going to be developed and ready to make their impacts at an NHL level and we’ll finally be in a spot where there is talent all over our organization and we so long as we arent afraid to make moves like the Horvats of this team etc, we can restock our system perpetually

 

You make some fair points and I agree with them for the most part.  You probably weren't around here when I defended Benning tooth and nail for years.  I finally saw the light last year and realized that maybe he wasn't doing everything correctly.

 

Sure, we had guys that went directly to the NHL because of our high picks.  We also had guys that were sent to Utica and for whatever reason didn't develop properly.  One of the most obvious is DiPietro.  Alot of people think his development was not handled properly, especially during COVID.  Then you have guys like Jared Mccann and Gustav Forslin who were traded before they reached their potential.  I understand the logic behind trading them, which was to get more ready NHL players, but at the end of the day it backfired on Benning, as the guys we got back never really helped us.  Sven Baertschi is another one, who we traded a 2nd round pick for.  If we had kept the pick we most likely get Rasmus Andersson who is now a top 4 Dman in the league.  Nikita Tryamkin was another pick that IMO was not handled properly.  He should have been playing with us for the last few years, but Benning played hardball with him on contract talks.

 

Jake Virtanen was thrown into the NHL as a 19-year-old.  They should have left him in junior for one more year and then send him to Utica afterwards for a year.  Instead, he bounced from the NHL back to the AHL which most likely hurt his development and his confidence.  Juolevi I agree, he had the injuries so we don't know what would have happened with him.

 

In terms of Benning having no prospects to start, I agree, Gillis left him nothing.  Regardless of that, you can't just throw guys into the NHL when they aren't ready.  Pick up some cheap UFA's to fill spots on the roster until the young guys are ready.  Problem with that is the team wouldn't be very competitive, so then you get into the situation of what the owner wants.  Aquilini seemed to want a competitive team from the get-go, which is most likely why Benning rushed some guys into the lineup.  Like I said, I did stick up for Benning for years, so I made the same arguments back then that you are making now.

 

IMO, JR/PA are changing this team from the top down, making some cultural changes as well.  Colliton and the Sedins are really helping Abby.  They are also realizing that we need more prospects, so hence the Horvat trade was all about the future not the present.  I can see JR trading for more prospects.  Demko seems to be on the trade block, and I think we are looking at trying to get a young Dman back in the trade.  We will see.  Same with Boeser.  Boeser for Alexander Holtz is being rumoured.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Petey Castiglione]

17 hours ago, stawns said:

woo is havinga heckuva year and looks great

I've been curious about his season but have not been taking in much Abby material.  How do you feel he has progressed?  TIA.

[Odd.]

4 hours ago, Shayster007 said:

I'm not going to try to claim I have watched a ton of Jurmo play. But I can say, with full confidence, that he is not the 2nd best defensemen in the Canucks organization behind Hughes nor our best prospect. He's not even our best defensive prospect, and that's an area we are super weak in.

 

We'll be fortunate of Jurmo plays games in the NHL, I'm not sure where this he's a superstar narrative came from. Unless it's satire, and I haven't had my coffee yet this morning.

I’m not suggesting he’s a superstar. My point is Jurmo displays elite skating and puck moving skills as a 6’4 defenseman that is defense oriented. He doesn’t stand out offensively in the sense that he doesn’t put up a ton of points, but of all defenseman we have, he has all the tools and frame to become successful, and he’s a need of ours, if he pans out.

 

Him being rated as a mid 1st, early 2nd prospect should mean something. I didn’t even know that until recently, but it makes sense.

[Angry Goose]

1 minute ago, Odd. said:

I’m not suggesting he’s a superstar. My point is Jurmo displays elite skating and puck moving skills as a 6’4 defenseman that is defense oriented. He doesn’t stand out offensively in the sense that he doesn’t put up a ton of points, but of all defenseman we have, he has all the tools and frame to become successful, and he’s a need of ours, if he pans out.

 

Him being rated as a mid 1st, early 2nd prospect should mean something. I didn’t even know that until recently, but it makes sense.

JJ’s biggest weakness right now (imo) is he tries to do too much sometimes. I was watching him pretty closely at the WJCs and he made some really nice (but hugely risky) plays (passes/holding onto puck).

 

Its good that he knows he can skate but I think for him to succeed at the pro level will be to simplify his game.  He can rely on his great physical traits to make those smaller plays on a consistent basis.  

 

Maybe not a great comparable but he reminds me of Dermott in a lot of ways

[Jester13]

This is an @Odd.thread.

[MeanSeanBean]

58 minutes ago, Odd. said:

I’m not suggesting he’s a superstar. My point is Jurmo displays elite skating and puck moving skills as a 6’4 defenseman that is defense oriented. He doesn’t stand out offensively in the sense that he doesn’t put up a ton of points, but of all defenseman we have, he has all the tools and frame to become successful, and he’s a need of ours, if he pans out.

 

Him being rated as a mid 1st, early 2nd prospect should mean something. I didn’t even know that until recently, but it makes sense.

In the Jurmo thread he was being hailed as a potential superstar (by the person who liked this post). I'm just not sure where this praise is coming from. Do you really think if he steps in on this team he's a better player then OEL, Myers, Bear, Schenn? I don't even think he would step into the Abby Canucks and be the second best defensemen, let alot the Vancouver Canucks.

 

He's a fine prospect, he probably more since we have so few. I wouldn't even concider him out best defensive prospect over seas though. The hype you feel around him just doesn't add up to me at all.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Shayster007

[AnthonyG]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

1. We also had guys that were sent to Utica and for whatever reason didn't develop properly.  One of the most obvious is DiPietro.  Alot of people think his development was not handled properly, especially during COVID. 

 

2. Then you have guys like Jared Mccann and Gustav Forslin who were traded before they reached their potential.  I understand the logic behind trading them, which was to get more ready NHL players, but at the end of the day it backfired on Benning, as the guys we got back never really helped us.  Sven Baertschi is another one, who we traded a 2nd round pick for.  If we had kept the pick we most likely get Rasmus Andersson who is now a top 4 Dman in the league.  Nikita Tryamkin was another pick that IMO was not handled properly.  He should have been playing with us for the last few years, but Benning played hardball with him on contract talks.

 

3. Jake Virtanen was thrown into the NHL as a 19-year-old.  They should have left him in junior for one more year and then send him to Utica afterwards for a year.  Instead, he bounced from the NHL back to the AHL which most likely hurt his development and his confidence.  Juolevi I agree, he had the injuries so we don't know what would have happened with him.

 

4. In terms of Benning having no prospects to start, I agree, Gillis left him nothing.  Regardless of that, you can't just throw guys into the NHL when they aren't ready.  Pick up some cheap UFA's to fill spots on the roster until the young guys are ready.  Problem with that is the team wouldn't be very competitive, so then you get into the situation of what the owner wants.  Aquilini seemed to want a competitive team from the get-go, which is most likely why Benning rushed some guys into the lineup.  Like I said, I did stick up for Benning for years, so I made the same arguments back then that you are making now.

 

IMO, JR/PA are changing this team from the top down, making some cultural changes as well.  Colliton and the Sedins are really helping Abby.  They are also realizing that we need more prospects, so hence the Horvat trade was all about the future not the present.  I can see JR trading for more prospects.  Demko seems to be on the trade block, and I think we are looking at trying to get a young Dman back in the trade.  We will see.  Same with Boeser.  Boeser for Alexander Holtz is being rumoured.

1. Not all players are going to develop into NHLers. They either have it or they dont (IQ, skating, shooting, passing etc) It either takes time for their bodies to catch up, or for them to be able to break habits, i.e. re-invent their stride, etc. Horvat for example, was not a good skater, one off-season and he was able to re-invent his stride, get lower to the ice, and dig deeper and push off with tremendous power. DiPietro imo, was never going to be an NHL goalie and whether his development was handled correctly or not during COVID, I cannot comment on. But I will say it makes it VERY hard for development when the league you're playing in gets shut down.

 

2. McCann was traded for personality issues. It's quite clear if you follow the suitcase, it was not the player, it was the person. He was clearly some sort of locker room distraction.

Forsling, yes it sucks he turned out to be much better than the return we got. However, Clendening was a high 2nd round pick in 2011 and by 2015 he was tearing up the AHL in Rockford.

2011-12	Boston University	H-East	38	4	29	33	64
2012-13	Rockford IceHogs	AHL	73	9	37	46	67	17	--	--	--	--	--
2013-14	Rockford IceHogs	AHL	74	12	47	59	64	5	--	--	--	--	--
2014-15	Rockford IceHogs	AHL	38	1	12	13	20	-4	--	--	--	--	-

 

It was a great gamble to take, that looked very promising, especially more so than what the chances of a 5th round 126th overall pick would bring. But unfortunately, that's just how it goes when you take your time and develop players. But to be fair we NEEDED to find guys asap who could step in and start to make an impact. The sooner we found guys that could do that, the sooner we could set up our farm system for development. Getting a guy like Clendening who was 21 and looking like he was ready to make the leap, would have done wonders for the farm, because he would be a place holder for several years, while any dmen we took in the draft, could slowly make their way through the farm system.

 

The odds of Clendening turning into an NHLer over Forsling were far greater in Clendening's favor. Based on where each was taken in their drafts and the potential that was seen. Same goes for Baertschi a former 13th overall pick in exchange for a late 2nd round pick. Who do you think is most likely going to be an NHLer and make an impact? The 13th or the 53rd overall pick? Benning went for highest probability to try and fast track a solution to our serious deficit of talent in the system. There is also no guarantee's we would have taken Rasmus Andersson either. 

 

3. I don't think it hurt Virtanen's confidence one bit. I think it was probably a good ego check for the kid. Made the team out of camp, wasn't ready to go the following season and got sent down. A message to a kid with a bit of an ego, the hometown boy who thought maybe it was a little too easy. After 1 season in Utica, his goal and point totals increased every year, up until his last season

2017-18	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	75	10	10	20	46	-11	--	--	--	--	--
2018-19	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	70	15	10	25	44	-4	--	--	--	--	--
2019-20	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	69	18	18	36	41

 

Clearly he was improving after 1 season of in the minors. Now what I will say about his time in VAN was that he didnt get PP1 time, he averaged 12:45TOI a game, which makes it difficult to produce, yet he was putting up 10, 15 and 18 goals a season. His final season in VAN, he averaged 12:15TOI with 37%oZS at ES. Meaning, he was being used defensively in a bottom 6 checking role. Was on for 11GF and 10GA in 38 games... Thats actually pretty damn impressive if you think about it. On for 1 goal against every 4th game while starting 63% of the time in his own zone. So, personally I blame Green on that. He mishandled Virtanen.

 

4. Its not that Benning was just throwing guys in blindly, they made the team. They beat out other guys at camp. Like I said before, guys like Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, etc... All were there to provide a stable environment for the kids at the NHL level, to help them develop under a veteran presence in the NHL. Same goes for Holtby coming in for Demko, it was all to just provide 1) winning experience and 2) experience period. 

Like when your 2 top scorers retire and you go out and sign Beagle, Roussel and Schaller.... You think that was to replace Hank and Danks scoring and trying to win? Or was that to provide a stable learning environment for our youth who earned an NHL spot and showed they were impact players.

[Fred65]

I watched Forslin in the WJC with interest. He reigned in the PP for Sweden and and was always the coaches choice for the last last minute of the period/game. He was destined IMO to become a genuine NHL'er. It took time and I guess Vcr wasn't will to wait