[Signing] Tyler Myers to Vancouver

[Captain Canuck #12]

14 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Now imagine Bo's faceoffs and zone starts if we had no Beagle. He'd be in the 20-30% ozone start range, maybe even lower. Beagle is not only helping insulate Petey and Boeser but taking the workload off Bo and allowing him to play a more two way role opposed to a purely shut down role. People complain about Sutter and Beagle' scoring/contracts. But they were never brought in to score 20 goals or anything.

 

Petey's great season, don't you guy's think that might be because guys like Beagle and Sutter are taking damn near all of the defensive possessions? Beagle had 18% ozone starts. Sutter had 31%, probably would have been lower if he play more than 26 games. Bo had 40%, with Sutter that's probably closer to 45-50%. So imagine we lose Sutter, and we have no Beagle. Where is Bo's defensive deployment? Now, where are his offensive totals after that? They are having an effect on the game even if you don't see it in the box score.

Way, way too many CDC posters don't understand that it takes more than players with good offensive skills to make a strong team.  A real team has strong players at every role, including good faceoff men, defensive players, and at least one or two willing pugilists.  A team that has only high-scoring finesse players is doomed to failure when the playoffs begin  -- we've just got way too many posters who don't understand that!

[JeremyCuddles]

3 hours ago, riffraff said:

Sutter didn’t play this year but I agree with the idea.

 

we saw it in the leafs losing in the first round where Tavares is held to two way duty and all the scoring is left to a diminutive albeit talented and inexperienced marner,  overrated Matthews and flamingo.

I mentioned in my post Sutter only logged 26 games.

[Boudrias]

9 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Sutter has never been a #2 centre and everyone knew that. Maybe he was going to be a placeholder for a short period and it turned out to be real short so he could play his real position - #3 c.

Exactly. IMHO the main reason for the Sutter acquisitionwas his FO %. Canucks were a brutal puck possession team and needed someone other than Bo who cold take FO's. Earlier in his career in Carolina he showed some flashes that he might be more then a 3C. After the trade to Pitt it was almost always as a 3C with superior d-zone play. 

 

I still think Sutter can play a role as 3C but also realize that he will not be on the next contending Canuck roster. Benning's conversion rate of vets to younger assets is the poorest part of his GM game. Easy for me to say as I don't know what he is faced with. It is always easier dealing from ignorance.  

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Exactly. IMHO the main reason for the Sutter acquisitionwas his FO %. Canucks were a brutal puck possession team and needed someone other than Bo who cold take FO's. Earlier in his career in Carolina he showed some flashes that he might be more then a 3C. After the trade to Pitt it was almost always as a 3C with superior d-zone play. 

 

I still think Sutter can play a role as 3C but also realize that he will not be on the next contending Canuck roster. Benning's conversion rate of vets to younger assets is the poorest part of his GM game. Easy for me to say as I don't know what he is faced with. It is always easier dealing from ignorance.  

Bieksa for picks, Garrison for pick, Lack for picks, Burrows for Dahlen (looked incredible at the time), Hansen for pick and prospect, Vanek for prospect, Kesler netted a 1st (but we knew that he put us over a barrel in that deal), Nilsson for a pick, Del Zotto for a pick.

 

What were the missed ones? Vrbata didn't allow us to trade him to a team that could use him, Hamhuis was almost traded, Sedins retired rightfully so.

[aGENT]

12 hours ago, gameburn said:

Re: injury.  Injuries matter.  The older a player is, the more they get injured.  

The Canucks have suffered a LOT of injuries, and most of these are, predictably, to the vets: Edler, Tanev, Dorsett, Beagle, Roussel, and Sutter.

 

Quite the 'coincidence' that those guys are all the players who play all the hard minute, dzone, PK, high QOC, insulating roles...

 

I wonder why they've been so frequently injured the last few years when we've been a poor, low possession team....? 

 

Shame we didn't just play kids there in those roles to get buried and injured instead...

[aGENT]

50 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Bieksa for picks, Garrison for pick, Lack for picks, Burrows for Dahlen (looked incredible at the time), Hansen for pick and prospect, Vanek for prospect, Kesler netted a 1st (but we knew that he put us over a barrel in that deal), Nilsson for a pick, Del Zotto for a pick.

 

What were the missed ones? Vrbata didn't allow us to trade him to a team that could use him, Hamhuis was almost traded, Sedins retired rightfully so.

Yup, the only guy I would have like to have seen moved that wasn't and 'could have', is Tanev.

 

And there's certainly enough context around that to understand why he wasn't as well, even if I wish otherwise.

[theo5789]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yup, the only guy I would have like to have seen moved that wasn't and 'could have', is Tanev.

 

And there's certainly enough context around that to understand why he wasn't as well, even if I wish otherwise.

Still time for it to happen.

[riffraff]

6 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

I mentioned in my post Sutter only logged 26 games.

I must have missed it.  For this reason I don’t think it’s accurate to say he provided any sheltering or insulation of note over the season.

 

bo was nearly a point a game whether sutter was in or not.  Meanwhile killing it on the dot ant playing defensively.

[kingofsurrey]

4 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Exactly. IMHO the main reason for the Sutter acquisitionwas his FO %. Canucks were a brutal puck possession team and needed someone other than Bo who cold take FO's. Earlier in his career in Carolina he showed some flashes that he might be more then a 3C. After the trade to Pitt it was almost always as a 3C with superior d-zone play. 

 

I still think Sutter can play a role as 3C but also realize that he will not be on the next contending Canuck roster. Benning's conversion rate of vets to younger assets is the poorest part of his GM game. Easy for me to say as I don't know what he is faced with. It is always easier dealing from ignorance.  

Sutter is a foundational player on our club....

 

[aGENT]

53 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Sutter is a foundational player on our club....

Laugh all you like but a guy who can win draws, play hard minutes, PK, shelter kids with ozone starts and score 20 goals and +/- 35 points like clockwork is a pretty solid 'foundation' for talented, fresh faced kids to build off of.

 

It's also why he deserved every dollar of his 'high 3rd line' contract. It's a shame he's been so injured the last couple years.

Edited July 7, 2019 by aGENT

[kingofsurrey]

21 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Laugh all you like but a guy who can win draws, play hard minutes, PK, shelter kids with ozone starts and score 20 goals and +/- 35 points like clockwork is a pretty solid 'foundation' for talented, fresh faced kids to build off of.

 

It's also why he deserved every dollar of his 'high 3rd line' contract. It's a shame he's been so injured the last couple years.

[aGENT]

Just now, kingofsurrey said:

Soon enough. The kids are near ready to take over and leave Beagle as the main 'sheltering' C but we're not quite there yet. And the notion that he's been overpaid or that we need to 'dump' him , is asinine. 

[Kragar]

3 hours ago, riffraff said:

I must have missed it.  For this reason I don’t think it’s accurate to say he provided any sheltering or insulation of note over the season.

 

bo was nearly a point a game whether sutter was in or not.  Meanwhile killing it on the dot ant playing defensively.

Bo held up pretty well, pulling extra duty.  We kept winning despite the injuries... for a while.  Then Bo was burned out and couldn't carry the team anymore.

 

We eventually got our guys back, but by then the damage was done.

 

If it happens again, fingers crossed Gaudette can lighten the load more (or, Green will let him try) and keep Bo's o-zone percentage higher.

[Johnny Torts]

54 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Laugh all you like but a guy who can win draws, play hard minutes, PK, shelter kids with ozone starts and score 20 goals and +/- 35 points like clockwork is a pretty solid 'foundation' for talented, fresh faced kids to build off of.

 

It's also why he deserved every dollar of his 'high 3rd line' contract. It's a shame he's been so injured the last couple years.

Heck yeah!

 

He is a very good player and he's a C. great value in C, good teams have great depth in that position.

 

Now, he did very decently before coming over from pitts, and what does the fanbase expect? For Brandon Sutter to turn water into wine while this team was rebuilding?

 

Stats and numbers will be inflated on great teams, and will be absolute crap on the crap teams. Maybe not always to that extreme, but big picture. I like Sutter in our line up. Good kid. Wish well for his health.

 

[canuck73_3]

56 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Could say the same about you, look forward for once. 

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Could say the same about you, look forward for once. 

When you live in Surrey, it’s hard to look forward when you’re constantly looking over your shoulder. 

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

 

[Crabcakes]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Laugh all you like but a guy who can win draws, play hard minutes, PK, shelter kids with ozone starts and score 20 goals and +/- 35 points like clockwork is a pretty solid 'foundation' for talented, fresh faced kids to build off of.

 

It's also why he deserved every dollar of his 'high 3rd line' contract. It's a shame he's been so injured the last couple years.

The signing was fine.  The book was at the time that he was given the opportunity, he could be a viable option at 2C.  It didn't turn out that way but nobody could have known at the time. 

 

I'm frankly surprised at the injuries based on Sutter's history before the Canucks.  This is why I'm happy with the improved depth and size of the Canucks.  It should in theory help with injuries.

[higgyfan]

3 hours ago, riffraff said:

I must have missed it.  For this reason I don’t think it’s accurate to say he provided any sheltering or insulation of note over the season.

 

bo was nearly a point a game whether sutter was in or not.  Meanwhile killing it on the dot ant playing defensively.

That is true for last season, which was his 5th year in the NHL.  In his 1st year, Bonino helped out with some defensive zone coverage and Bo was somewhat sheltered from the heavy loads. 

 

The 2nd year was a disaster for the kid; what with Sutter going down early and having to take the complete defensive coverage and it showed in his -30.  This could have stunted his development, but for the tremendous character, skills and man-size physique this young man had at only 20yrs old.

 

The following year Sutter was back(81games) and Bo has a breakout season (top pts in the lineup and a -7), as well as the following season (Sutter 61games) despite only playing in 64games Bo gets 44pts and a -1.

 

Last season, I would consider Bo an NHL veteran.  His leadership, influence on teammates and high level of skills have come together like a seasoned vet, who can withstand whatever comes at him and still come out golden.  Sutter goes down early and then Beagle goes down later on, but Bo does a good job of holding things together until Beagle returns; all the while having his best year to date (82gs-61pts -4) at 23yrs old.  The guy is a beast.

 

Still, one has to imagine what his season could be like if a healthy Sutter returns to the lineup and Bo doesn't have to tend to the team's defensive needs all the time.  Not knocking Gaud, but he really isn't ready for the heavy defensive duties yet, so I'd really like to see Sutter take the the 3C spot and free up Bo's line.

 

Besides, if Sutter is looking good later in the season, he gets a decent return in a trade and (hopefully) Gaudette is ready to take the challenge at 3C.

[theo5789]

11 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

That is true for last season, which was his 5th year in the NHL.  In his 1st year, Bonino helped out with some defensive zone coverage and Bo was somewhat sheltered from the heavy loads. 

 

The 2nd year was a disaster for the kid; what with Sutter going down early and having to take the complete defensive coverage and it showed in his -30.  This could have stunted his development, but for the tremendous character, skills and man-size physique this young man had at only 20yrs old.

 

The following year Sutter was back(81games) and Bo has a breakout season (top pts in the lineup and a -7), as well as the following season (Sutter 61games) despite only playing in 64games Bo gets 44pts and a -1.

 

Last season, I would consider Bo an NHL veteran.  His leadership, influence on teammates and high level of skills have come together like a seasoned vet, who can withstand whatever comes at him and still come out golden.  Sutter goes down early and then Beagle goes down later on, but Bo does a good job of holding things together until Beagle returns; all the while having his best year to date (82gs-61pts -4) at 23yrs old.  The guy is a beast.

 

Still, one has to imagine what his season could be like if a healthy Sutter returns to the lineup and Bo doesn't have to tend to the team's defensive needs all the time.  Not knocking Gaud, but he really isn't ready for the heavy defensive duties yet, so I'd really like to see Sutter take the the 3C spot and free up Bo's line.

 

Besides, if Sutter is looking good later in the season, he gets a decent return in a trade and (hopefully) Gaudette is ready to take the challenge at 3C.

I'm not sure if we are necessarily grooming Gaudette for the same role. If anything, if Sutter is indeed moved, I'd expect Beagle to take on more of the load as Gaudette continues to get sheltered. Gaudette was excellent in college because he was the go-to offensive driver whereas he's being expected to play more defensively here. I'm not sure if he's being coached that way or if he's afraid to make some mistakes and has been playing it safe. I think if/when Gaudette does make it full time, I assume we may consider running 3 offensive lines and an energy/checking line as opposed to our current set up with two "defensive" lines. I think this switch will occur with our younger top 6 maturing to take on bigger minutes and understanding the rigors, so there is less need to shelter them from the tougher assignments.