For Or Against Martial Law for the Covid-19 Virus?

[Russ]

I dare them to come find me and force me to stay indoors, almost no one knows where I live out in the bush.  I got plenty of yard work to do and lots in my shop to finish up!  But yea I am not really leaving my property, gotta get my mower going and thatch my grass hopefully next day or 2 before it starts pissing rain so I can try and get rid of all the moss and dead grass.

2 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

I'm not picking on British Columbia I have family there but I have heard a lot of people tell me that they don't feel like BC is taking it serious enough I don't know if that is the case I know they're closures of schools and daycares and other things were all after Alberta's decision to do it and I think you guys have the second most cases in the country. Maybe you can fill me in on more of the approach they are taking. To be honest I hardly watch news anymore or TV for that matter.

It seems to have mostly gone through 2-3 carehomes unfortunately and it was like that from the beginning.

[JM_]

23 minutes ago, Brock Botanen said:

It is a strain of SARS and it shares 80-90% of the genetic code, but it's still a totally different virus. It's a hell of a lot more infectious. The death rate is a lot lower, but the death toll will be a lot higher. And infectious virus like this 1 that can spread between species is highly susceptible to mutations and it's already been proven that you can catch it more than once. The more it mutates and the faster it spreads, the harder it will be to create the vaccine. 

 

They're running tests, but they still dont expect a vaccine for 18 months. It could be a very long haul, especially if a high number of people are confirmed to have gotten it multiple times. Not sure how many are confirmed, but I heard of 1 Japenese guy, and 100s of Chinese were infected twice already. 

 

Most viruses you are immune to after catching it, because of the antibody your immune system builds. However from what I've read a couple weeks ago (new research could debunk this) the antibody we develop after catching this virus only lasts for a short period of time for some reason.

 

That's the biggest hurdle in terms of coming up with a vaccine. I am in no way trying to scare people. Just trying to help people understand what I've gathered from reading up on it

we can't look at anecdotal one-off stories. 

 

Here's what WHO is doing re: possible treatments: https://globalnews.ca/news/6703290/coronavirus-drugs/

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 hours ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

Psychological programing of the masses to welcome totalitarian manipulation and control...all for our own good of course! This is nothing but a well-planned execution of a Hegelian Dialectic process where a problem is created so that the masses will willingly embrace "solution".  Baby steps at first, then comes the hammer.  There's darker forces at work here people...resist the urge to surrender to the irrational fear and hype.  

 

 

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false” — William Casey Director of the C.I.A. at an early February 1981 meeting of the newly elected President Reagan in the Roosevelt Room of the WH with his new cabinet secretaries." (confirmed by Barbara Honnager, Nov 25, 2014)

 

http://truthstreammedia.com/2015/01/13/cia-flashback-well-know-our-disinformation-program-is-complete-when-everything-the-american-public-believes-is-false/

 

https://www.globalresearch.ca/spinning-fear-and-panic-across-america-analysis-of-covid-19-data/5706785

 

Understand what you'll get in martial law. The suspension of the Canadian Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. All your rights, all your freedoms you now  enjoy, gone! Complete control of your person, family and life. Only to be given back if, and when THEY decide you deserve them back. 

 

Supposed virus or not....HELL NO TO MARTIAL LAW!!!

Thank you.

 

Decades of slimy Gov't/media practice, & how could the populace have any faith?

 

Orwell warned us.

[coastal.view]

not sure why the author does not explain what martial law is

 

we presently have legislators who are empowered to pass laws

that will allow arrests and other sanctions

where citizens might disobey orders made by medical authorities

that is not martial law

 

that is the normal practice of how social interests are protected by law

though in this time of emergency someone like Dr. Henry can just speak a law

without normal vetting and legislative process

such impromptu orders can still be reviewed as it is likely occasional mistakes could be made

the benefit in this time of crisis is it allows speedy decisions to take place that have the effect of law

 

to ramp this up to martial law

would be extraordinary

i'm curious why the op would simply put this idea out there

without any accompanying rationale for it

[BowtieCanuck]

7 hours ago, Russ said:

I dare them to come find me and force me to stay indoors, almost no one knows where I live out in the bush.  I got plenty of yard work to do and lots in my shop to finish up!  But yea I am not really leaving my property, gotta get my mower going and thatch my grass hopefully next day or 2 before it starts pissing rain so I can try and get rid of all the moss and dead grass.

It seems to have mostly gone through 2-3 carehomes unfortunately and it was like that from the beginning.

They wouldn't need to 'force' you to stay indoors. If you're out in the boonies on property thats far from your neighbors, you're doing exactly what the government would want.

[Drakrami]

7 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Yeah no thanks to martial law.  For the most part people are already distancing physically, and we still need fresh air and space in nature to be healthy.

Might as well put us behind bars if we were going to have such a law, and I value my freedom.

You seriously dont know anything. This thing is serious unless you want to become another Italy. 4000 deaths and increasing. You dont take all the precautions, think oh, it is just a flu. This is what every country was thinking about 3 weeks ago. Look at what is happening now. Read some news, get yourself educated. The projections are 70% of the population will get the virus; with a 2% death rate, do the math. It can only be prevented if we apply something drastic like what China did: a total lockdown, which seems to have worked very well. 

[Crabcakes]

11 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

I work in manufacturing - they say practice social distance but I just observed three workers putting product in a enclosure(4x8).  They have sani wipes for the office but nothing for the shop except sanitizer on the doors into the office.(ie shop floors, my computer/desk).  I really don't think they care much about our safety tbh - I am sure they care about the ones making big coin that get to work from home but not us peons.  I might just take a leave of absence and take the financial hit.  

You should speak to your super Tre Mac.  I'm sure they're trying to find a practical way to get along with things and still maintain worker safety.  It's certainly not to their benefit for skilled people having to take leave.  If they are worth their salt, they will listen to reasonable criticism.  Are you guys using lean methods?  They depend on feedback. 

 

Clearly, nobody is holding a gun to your head and if they don't respond in a reasonable way, of course you know your future may lie elsewhere.  If they are smart, they get that too.  Good people are damn hard to find.  These times are new to all and the boss needs to hear your concerns.

[Crabcakes]

9 hours ago, Russ said:

I dare them to come find me and force me to stay indoors, almost no one knows where I live out in the bush.  I got plenty of yard work to do and lots in my shop to finish up!  But yea I am not really leaving my property, gotta get my mower going and thatch my grass hopefully next day or 2 before it starts pissing rain so I can try and get rid of all the moss and dead grass.

It seems to have mostly gone through 2-3 carehomes unfortunately and it was like that from the beginning.

9 deaths in BC and 8 from a single care home in Lynn Valley (North Van), 1 in the Fraser Valley.  Look, all these people were old.  If somebody is in a care home, they can't look after themselves and likely have health issues, why else would they not be able to take care of themselves?  The virus causes difficulty for people with health issues.  Just like the ordinary flu which incidentally is responsible for 500-1500 deaths a year IN CANADA ALONE (source CBC).  The corona virus is serious.  But let's not get carried away.  We all need to be vigilant to try to stop this.

 

Martial Law!  Holy crap.  Let's just toss the Charter of Rights and Freedoms on the fire.  The last, and I think the only time the War Measures Act was enacted was 1970 during the FLQ crisis when a cabinet minister was kidnapped and terrorists were threatening.  It was widely regarded at the time that Trudeau Sr was way over the top.  In hindsight people are more kind but let's take a balanced look at this issue.  We have been under a barrage of a media who is all over this issue and it is non-stop.  This is overkill to the n-th degree.  Serious yes but we are people living in the world and will not be held down by the jack-boot of an overzealous government who has been bullied by the media. Obviously, this is new territory for the government and they are trying to negotiate a difficult situation.  But arresting people for running out for groceries or taking their dog and/or kids for a walk is not the answer.

 

 

[The Colt 45s]

Why should Canadians be worried about martial law?  You are not American!  Polite and obedient, whereas Americans are very rebellious.

Edited March 21, 2020 by The Colt 45s

[Lateralus91]

Parts of Germany (Bavaria and various cities and municipalities) already have some restrictions enforced. Others will very likely follow on Monday at the latest.

But it's not that you can't go out at all. If you are alone nobody will stop you. You can also go out in small groups if you live in the same household. Just don't sit in full restaurants or bars etc. Hold your distance and you'll be fine.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

13 hours ago, King Heffy said:

It's going to happen sooner or later.  Sooner is ultimately going to be easier on the economy and save lives.  Start today.

100%.

 

I'm not one to overreact but this coronavirus is a big deal. My dad's a doctor and my girlfriend's an emergency nurse, and both are at this point largely in favour of martial law if people can't cooperate. It should be as matter-of-fact as it sounds: just stay home (but many aren't getting the memo...).

 

It's true that 20-30% of colds and flus you've had were from a kind of coronavirus, but those coronaviruses effected the upper respiratory tract, whereas this particular one effects the lower respiratory tract - so those who have asthma, pneumonia, are immunosuppressed, old, etc. are in serious jeopardy. 

 

This is a VERY big deal. Although everyone will eventually get through this pandemic, it definitely slows the process when you have idiots like those who have been partying it up Miami over the spring break. The healthcare system is Canada is already too overwhelmed, so it's about preventing the spread. Lots of people are going to die from this, yes, but preventing the spread is of utmost importance. I know that over in China there were extreme measures taken to keep people inside, but it's paid off.

 

I'm all for martial law at this point. People hate being told what to do, but still, there are extreme measures that are going to have to be taken because people aren't taking this as seriously as they should. Some people really don't give a sh^% if more people die. There's just selfishness, everywhere.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Herberts Vasiljevs

[PlanB]

8 hours ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

 

I'm all for martial law at this point. People hate being told what to do, but still, there are extreme measures that are going to have to be taken because people aren't taking this as seriously as they should. Some people really don't give a sh^% if more people die. There's just selfishness, everywhere.

It's going to be all but impossible to enforce martial law in a country the size of Canada with people so widely distributed combined with the fact we have a very low ratio of military/police to civilian population.   

 

You correctly acknowledged that ppl simply don't care - so does anyone think a law that can't possibly be widely enforced is going to persuade the ppl that don't care to do the right thing?

[Gator]

I get why some of you dont want Martial Law. I do. However it will be inevitable if young people continue not to take it serious.

 

Italy has already done Martial Law and it is going to happen here as well wether we like it or not. The sooner it's in place the less people will die. My family members that are at risk will be safe and that's more important to me than anyones rights. We had the chance to do it with rights, but stupid people are proving that it's not going to work. Take my rights away for 2 months I could care less. As long as it stops people from dying, thats my main and only concern

[MoneypuckOverlord]

no m

12 hours ago, The Colt 45s said:

Why should Canadians be worried about martial law?  You are not American!  Polite and obedient, whereas Americans are very rebellious.

I'm seeing this unfold as a person living in Asia right now and how Canada is handling this is outright a joke.  Pierre Truedeau let his people down! some sort of martial law is needed because some people don't frickin listen! Students in the USA plan to celebrate spring break, meanwhile beachs in Australia is packed with people.

[Gator]

2 hours ago, PlanB said:

It's going to be all but impossible to enforce martial law in a country the size of Canada with people so widely distributed combined with the fact we have a very low ratio of military/police to civilian population.   

 

You correctly acknowledged that ppl simply don't care - so does anyone think a law that can't possibly be widely enforced is going to persuade the ppl that don't care to do the right thing?

The US will be in Martial Law soon too. I'm sure they'll lend a helping hand to their friendly neighbour. With Martial law it dont matter if you want to abide or not. Leave your house and get locked up on sight. Your choice

 

I have a few careless people I know of not taking this serious and if something happens to my older relatives because of them their rights wont save them. people that have recently travelled and refuse to self isolate should be thrown behind bars for manslaughter. Same with the ones going on spring break. Do they not realize they are literally killing people.

 

Last I checked accidentally killing someone is manslaughter 

 

Also just said something to someone at the grocery store today for touching meat packages and putting them back. He literally laughed and walked away (guy in his 50s or 60s). People like them are going to spread it because we are not enforcing self isolation, we are only encouraging it. Theres inconsiderate assholes that dont care and its really beginning to get on my nerves

 

Italy just had over 600 people die yesterday from this. It's only a matter of time that people will be dying here like that, because of those inconsiderate little $&!#s.

[oldnews]

Run a candy-ass, suggestive campaign of maybe you might possibly follow preventative measures...

 

Combined with incompetent, misleading messaging from lax political talking-heads - who never should have been the messengers - who should shut the fk up and let non-ideologues take the lead in circumstances like this.

 

And then back the country into martial law as a result?

 

I'm in favour of being more assertive and proactive now (and of course, yesterday).  

 

Martial law is a sign of having radically failed in these - and the earlier stages.

 

Ie messaging one week that it is safe to go to restaurants, etc....if people self-distance, etc.

And then having to about-face a week later and mandate the closure of all restaurants - because - of course - people did not adequately self-distance, and restaurants did not necessary restrict volumes (that would limit revenue, would it not?), etc.

 

That is not realizing that "humans are gonna human" as another poster put it.

 

I have been attempting to persuade grocers to take more proactive measures in their stores - and while some listen, they tend to conclude that;

 

1) they might inconvenience their customers by requiring them to do simply things like wash their hands at point of entry.

2) they are following the general guidelines of the health officers (which is only true of some locations, and the guidelines are outdated and insufficient in the context this threat poses).

 

My local grocery store - an annoying, self-important middle class demographic - is virtually indistinguishable from a month ago.

1) No one counting or limiting the number of people entering the premises.

2) No one using hand sanitizers, wipes, etc.  All measures being employed - are beyond the point of entry - with more staff wiping surfaces, pin pads, etc = better than nothing, but an entirely reactive, and inadequate approach. 

3) Only random, conscious people self-distancing - otherwise, the majority of people are relatively unable to alter their everyday habits.

4) Managers don't feel they can inconvenience customers by requiring them to, for example, wash their hands. 

 

Here is the sheer idiocy of the contradiction we face.  A passive, deferential approach right now - maybe you could possibly take precautions.....too cautious and lax/inactive to enact much in the way of proactive measures - at those places that remain most vulnerable to high traffic - while we debate about the eventuality of martial law....Entitled, self-important people can't be required to wash their hands.....but we can close boarders, shut down airlines, close virtually all businesses, and ponder martial law.  Derp.

 

People lack confidence, and don't see real leadership. 

 

So no - I'm not in favour of martial law until I've seen a real, concerted preventative effort - with some clear, assertive messaging - and actual measures that enable people to practice what we purport to 'inform' them.

Again - for example -  you can suggest people wash their hands - but if you don't provide the means - it's just window-dressing talk.

We can't manage to set up sinks and washing stations outside points of entry of high traffic buildings....but we debate martial law, etc.  Derp.

 

If we reach the point of martial law it's because we built a lazy, eggshell road there, with weak leadership, mixed messages, and weak, inactive and/or half-measures. 

Do I want to empower those same people with martial law measures?  Not really.   

And likewise - I don't want to watch media broadcasting kids crying - and I don't want to see morbid leadership, sombrely moping - it's negative suggestion in the end and not what people need  - I want to see proactive leadership that goes beyond mere messaging, backing into this crisis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by oldnews

[Scottish⑦Canuck]

In an ideal world no. But the reality is that a significant number of people have a "it will never happen to me" mentality or are too stupid to comply with social distancing measures. 

 

Because of that some sort of enforced lockdown is necessary for at least a few weeks to slow the spread, or you'll have another Italy situation on your hands with hundreds dying every day. 

 

People can't be trusted to do the right thing by themselves. They've shown that time and time again in recent weeks. 

[HI5]

Lot of elder religious folk from all religions seem like they don’t give a f*** cause god will protect them. 
 

Do we just let them die? 
 

 

[Russ]

1 hour ago, HI5 said:

Lot of elder religious folk from all religions seem like they don’t give a f*** cause god will protect them. 
 

Do we just let them die? 
 

 

Its hilarious seeing how some of the churches pastors around the world are pushing the narrative that they will be safe if they pray to god then one church sprayed their people with some water and everyone contacted COVID-19.  

 

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/coronavirus-outbreak-at-south-korean-church-after-virus-killing-method-goes-wrong-c-750873

 

But overall I think most churches are getting smart, many are doing it all online now which is good.  

[Dick Long]

I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if it came to martial law for the time being, until this thing got under control.  But the fact is, if everyone used a little common sense, we could get through this without it coming to that.  This is serious $&!#, and we cant just keep putting our front line health care workers and our vulnerable citizens at risk for our own personal pleasure.  Get your $&!# together quick or face the consequences.