Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Gaudette Celly]

On 12/10/2018 at 7:53 PM, Warhippy said:

So right now, Virtanen as a healthy body is a far more valuable member of the team than Baertschi

Doubt it.  Earlier this season I heard a professional radio muppet distinctly declare that Virtanen was "near waiver-wire status".

[Rob_Zepp]

2 hours ago, canuckistani said:

he has ways to go to be a valued member of a bottom-feeder team if he can neither crack the top six consistently nor play PK. Its just that simple. Unless ofcourse, your definition of being valued is being a small cog that makes the picture perfect...

You keep mentioning "bottom feeder team".   Do you even watch the Canucks play?   Do you know what "bottom feeder" even means?   

 

He is far from a small cog.   Learn about the game - you will find out how it works.   Great game - too bad you are missing the enjoyment through lack of knowledge.  

[Rob_Zepp]

2 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Look, I like Jake. I think he's gonna be a big part of our future, and his stock has taken a huge upswing this season.

 

That being said, it's not some sort of huge knock against the guy or a huge knock on Benning to admit that Nylander and Ehlers, who we passed on, are better players. That's just the reality of the situation. 

 

I think it's also important to note that the 2014 draft was a weird one. After the top 3 picks, Nylander and Ehlers, things kinda went all over the place. The guy picked at 25th overall might very well be the best player of the class.

 

It was a weird draft and I don't really hold it against anyone for not scouting it as well as other drafts.

Different players.    Different isn't always better.   You would never win a cup with a team full of Nylanders or Ehlers.    Nor would you with a team of Virtanen's......you need a mix and what Jake brings the Canucks did not (and do not otherwise) have.    You seem to equate points with "best".    Hockey doesn't work that way.

[canuckistani]

11 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

You keep mentioning "bottom feeder team".   Do you even watch the Canucks play?   Do you know what "bottom feeder" even means?   

Yep. Near the bottom of the pile. Which is where our standing is at the moment. 

11 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

 

He is far from a small cog.   Learn about the game - you will find out how it works.   Great game - too bad you are missing the enjoyment through lack of knowledge.  

Pfft. No-matter how you like to package your subjective opinion, it doesn't change the fact that its a subjective opinion. The only ones who lack 'knowledge', is the ones who are hyping a 4th year kid that is developing but still more promise than performance on a bottom quarter team, while not yet secured in a top six role, neither is he a bona-fide bottom six guy or on the PK. 

I get it - you have interest to overhype local boys. Its not hard to see, since your bread is buttered that way. But until Jake *is* established via performance ( which any real pro level management will tell you is more than 30-odd games in 4th season), i shall continue to have hope for him to make it into a decent NHL-er. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

17 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

You seem to equate points with "best".    Hockey doesn't work that way.

If there were a 2014 redraft, do you honestly think Virtanen would go before Nylander or Ehlers?

 

People seem pretty touchy about this subject. There's nothing wrong with admitting that Benning didn't select the best player available in that moment. No, points aren't "everything", but they do count for one helluva lot, especially when the gap is as large as it is between the career averages of Nylander or Ehlers and Virtanen. That doesn't mean Virtanen can't be an important player for us going forward.

[Yung1]

1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

If there were a 2014 redraft, do you honestly think Virtanen would go before Nylander or Ehlers?

 

People seem pretty touchy about this subject. There's nothing wrong with admitting that Benning didn't select the best player available in that moment. No, points aren't "everything", but they do count for one helluva lot, especially when the gap is as large as it is between the career averages of Nylander or Ehlers and Virtanen. That doesn't mean Virtanen can't be an important player for us going forward.

Jake virtanen has more goals than ehlers as it stands right now and is on pace to score more goals than nylander did last year while bringing more of the things that dont show up on the scoresheet. Sure, he projects to have less assists, but he brings far more grit and defence. He breaks even with those players as early as right now.

 

It honestly just seems like jake it breaking out a bit later than the skill guys because he's a power forward like so many people have been saying he would. Sure, its a smaller sample size, but its pretty much a half season+ and growing. I would bet good money that this is a breakout and the production is not a fluke.

 

The nylander/ehlers > virtanen argument is dying imo.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Yung1
Words

[kenhodgejr]

BIG TUNA with another goal tonight!!

 

 

[shad0w4life]

5 hours ago, kenhodgejr said:

BIG TUNA with another goal tonight!!

 

 

And was directly responsible for a goal with his horrible D zone coverage.....

I swear people have blinders on for him.

[Nancouver]

35 minutes ago, shad0w4life said:

And was directly responsible for a goal with his horrible D zone coverage.....

I swear people have blinders on for him.

Overall jake is pretty good defensively especially for a 22 year old. He makes the odd mistake in his own zone but what young player doesn’t? 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Nancouver

[Tre Mac]

I got to give Green credit, I would've benched Jake after the first two periods. 

10 minutes ago, shad0w4life said:

And was directly responsible for a goal with his horrible D zone coverage.....

I swear people have blinders on for him.

And the goal he scored was ugly at best.  All good though, a win is a win.  Career high in goals by mid December, can't argue he's improving but still subject to mental lapses here and there.

[reyezone]

53 minutes ago, Tre Mac said:

I got to give Green credit, I would've benched Jake after the first two periods. 

And the goal he scored was ugly at best.  All good though, a win is a win.  Career high in goals by mid December, can't argue he's improving but still subject to mental lapses here and there.

If Eric Karlson had scored that late game winning goal from that impossible angle (like he did a few years ago in the playoffs against Lundqvist) all we would hear about is his creativity and deadly accurate shot. 

[smokes]

9 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

If there were a 2014 redraft, do you honestly think Virtanen would go before Nylander or Ehlers?

 

Yes because with the money they are commanding now, and we had to resign  Brock and Pettersson. That is going to give cap space headaches.

Edited December 12, 2018 by smokes

[dpn1]

Jim may not have taken the best player available but he took the player he wanted.  Brock is our Nylander,  EP40 is our Matthews and Bo is our Marner.  Lets enjoy watching them develop into a good team.  As far as Jake is concerned, you have to be good to be lucky but Jake has scored more good goals than lucky ones.  Brock scored a lucky one last game and know one is worried about that.  Stop being childish and realize Jake is becoming a good player and an important part of the team.  Some of the negative crap on this thread over the last few pages is FUBAR.

[aGENT]

10 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

If there were a 2014 redraft, do you honestly think Virtanen would go before Nylander or Ehlers?

Last year? Almost certainly not.

 

This year? Ehlers would still almost certainly go 1st of the three (despite a less than stellar year) but Nylander/Virtanen would largely be a wash IMO and dependent on which skill set you covet more.

 

Next year, two years from now...we'll see.

 

This is why you don't focus on instant gratification.

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, smokes said:

Yes because with the money they are commanding now, and we had to resign  Brock and Pettersson. That is going to give cap space headaches.

This exactly.  An overpaid soft winger, even one scoring 50 to 60 points, who does nothing in the playoffs and hard games, hurts their team.  Their wasted Cap dollars could be spent on guys like Beagle, who help teams win Cups.  

[Gaudette Celly]

50 minutes ago, dpn1 said:

Jim may not have taken the best player available but he took the player he wanted.  Brock is our Nylander,  EP40 is our Matthews and Bo is our Marner.  Lets enjoy watching them develop into a good team.  As far as Jake is concerned, you have to be good to be lucky but Jake has scored more good goals than lucky ones.  Brock scored a lucky one last game and know one is worried about that.  Stop being childish and realize Jake is becoming a good player and an important part of the team.  Some of the negative crap on this thread over the last few thousand pages is FUBAR.

 

[Warhippy]

12 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

Doubt it.  Earlier this season I heard a professional radio muppet distinctly declare that Virtanen was "near waiver-wire status".

A muppet you say...

 

Did he look like this and call himself dreger?

 

[The Lock]

10 hours ago, canuckistani said:

Yep. Near the bottom of the pile. Which is where our standing is at the moment. 

Pfft. No-matter how you like to package your subjective opinion, it doesn't change the fact that its a subjective opinion. The only ones who lack 'knowledge', is the ones who are hyping a 4th year kid that is developing but still more promise than performance on a bottom quarter team, while not yet secured in a top six role, neither is he a bona-fide bottom six guy or on the PK. 

I get it - you have interest to overhype local boys. Its not hard to see, since your bread is buttered that way. But until Jake *is* established via performance ( which any real pro level management will tell you is more than 30-odd games in 4th season), i shall continue to have hope for him to make it into a decent NHL-er. 

The exact same thing could be said for people who want to downgrade players. I don't see you being any less subjective here.

 

The answer really is going to be somewhere in the middle if we really want to be realistic.

Edited December 12, 2018 by The Lock

[Rob_Zepp]

11 hours ago, canuckistani said:

Yep. Near the bottom of the pile. Which is where our standing is at the moment. 

Pfft. No-matter how you like to package your subjective opinion, it doesn't change the fact that its a subjective opinion. The only ones who lack 'knowledge', is the ones who are hyping a 4th year kid that is developing but still more promise than performance on a bottom quarter team, while not yet secured in a top six role, neither is he a bona-fide bottom six guy or on the PK. 

I get it - you have interest to overhype local boys. Its not hard to see, since your bread is buttered that way. But until Jake *is* established via performance ( which any real pro level management will tell you is more than 30-odd games in 4th season), i shall continue to have hope for him to make it into a decent NHL-er. 

Local?   I live in Germany.   You are hilarious.    

 

If you don't think a 22 year old who is top ten hits/60, 10 goals before mid-season, consistently plus player and gobbling up key minutes is not a "decent NHLer", your bar is clearly not met by more than a handful of players.   Perhaps you have such outstanding athletic prowess yourself that you find mere outstanding contributions not up to your expectations?   

[Rob_Zepp]

10 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

If there were a 2014 redraft, do you honestly think Virtanen would go before Nylander or Ehlers?

 

People seem pretty touchy about this subject. There's nothing wrong with admitting that Benning didn't select the best player available in that moment. No, points aren't "everything", but they do count for one helluva lot, especially when the gap is as large as it is between the career averages of Nylander or Ehlers and Virtanen. That doesn't mean Virtanen can't be an important player for us going forward.

That's not the point - the point isn't about revising history, it is about how you build a team.   The fixation some have on points is lamentable as it makes the fanbase look puerile.   Further, NHL success happens as a team and NO team can have playoff let alone ultimate success without a mix of talent that includes someone who has the skillset of a Jake Virtanen.   A team full of Ehlers or  Nylanders would be unlikely to make the playoffs let alone have playoff success.

 

Redrafts are meaningless.   What matters in professional team sports is building a team made up of parts that fit together and have the full contingent of key roles.   The role that Virtanen is now playing is one the Canucks were missing during their last ascension in league standings and so management took a chance to find that player through the draft and now, at only 22, that chance seems to have been a good one to take.