DownUndaCanuck Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 I think it's time to give Demko around 30% of the starts and make him earn his starter position back. 1 win so far all year, he's been brutal but he's not some young rookie, he should be in his prime, and should be held accountable the same way Myers and Miller should. Before the start of the season he was being voted as high as the 4th best goalie in the league. Sure it's a combination of bad defence and poor confidence but Martin somehow has a 3-0-1 record and Demko...1-7-2. We can't just play Demko through this, we have to balance it and mainly roll with Martin and hope Demko gets his mojo back because he keeps piling up the Ls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 18 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: I think it's time to give Demko around 30% of the starts and make him earn his starter position back. 1 win so far all year, he's been brutal but he's not some young rookie, he should be in his prime, and should be held accountable the same way Myers and Miller should. Before the start of the season he was being voted as high as the 4th best goalie in the league. Sure it's a combination of bad defence and poor confidence but Martin somehow has a 3-0-1 record and Demko...1-7-2. We can't just play Demko through this, we have to balance it and mainly roll with Martin and hope Demko gets his mojo back because he keeps piling up the Ls. I don't think the records really tell the whole story, but still, even looking at stats more specific to the goaltenders, Martin still seems better, though it is a smaller sample. Personally, I think it might be worth considering a 50/50 split for now to see who can prove they deserve the job for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bell Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Demko has let the first shot of a game in the net three times already this season. He needs to get his act together or play Martin. It's a what have you done for me lately league and he has done squat this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Bell said: Demko has let the first shot of a game in the net three times already this season. He needs to get his act together or play Martin. It's a what have you done for me lately league and he has done squat this season. Isn’t that the complaint of Marky also, let in easy shots at the start? It seems as Demko isn’t back to 100% after his surgery. If so BB has to take some blame since he should have started Martin a bit more if so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 18 minutes ago, Timråfan said: Isn’t that the complaint of Marky also, let in easy shots at the start? Iirc Luongo had that problem as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 On 11/10/2022 at 1:56 AM, -AJ- said: I don't think the records really tell the whole story, but still, even looking at stats more specific to the goaltenders, Martin still seems better, though it is a smaller sample. Personally, I think it might be worth considering a 50/50 split for now to see who can prove they deserve the job for now. Demko's struggles this season is a blessing in disguise IMHO. His superior play last year covered up fundamental weaknesses on the d-side. This year it is truly exposed. It will force change. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 28 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Demko's struggles this season is a blessing in disguise IMHO. His superior play last year covered up fundamental weaknesses on the d-side. This year it is truly exposed. It will force change. JR has been saying exactly this since he arrived in 2022. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanfor42 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 I expect Demko starts his turnaround now. He's too good to stay with numbers so far off his career averages. He will start playing better now and his numbers will regress to the mean. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 Yeah, time for Thatcher to kick it in gear, & go full-on Hasek-mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 3 games 1st shot? Dam that's stupid odds to have happen. Let Spence take tonight's game. And Demko can better prepare himself for the next game. Stretch his hips, toughen up his core, stomach area. He looks a bit stiff, not ss agile. Surgery related probably. I started a training thing to get back into shape and I can't believe the difference in my core area mobility wise. nb my muscles were all out of whack after my covid coma nearly 2 years ago. Maybe Demko came back too soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 We need: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Alflives said: We need: His problem this season, is between his ears. In the first period he was lights out, then in the third he goes up the middle with an attempted pass, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxVerstappen33 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Thatcher Demko. A theory. I believe he is trying to play through an injury that requires season ending surgery. They are keeping quiet about the injury and trying to get the season done. But it clearly is not working. And if it doesn't work, they have only one choice. Shut down Demko for the season and get him in surgery. But this will also cause the Canucks to acquire a another goal tender. Who's our 3rd string guy ? Is he good enough ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Not sure if this fits better in the Demko thread or Martin thread, but it pertains to both. On one hand I hear some fans showing Martin's 4-1-1 record and comparing it to Demko's 2-9-2 record and noting how much better Martin is. On the other hand, you have fans pointing out how much more goal support Martin has had in his games and claim that he is also playing poorly. I believe both are true. Martin's record is substantially better than Demko's, but he has definitely had more goal support. In his six games, Martin has seen the team in front of him score at a rate of roughly 4.82 goals/60 minutes. Demko has played in 13 games and during those games, the Canucks have scored at drastically lower rate of 2.82 goals/60 minutes. There's no question that Martin has received far more goal support than Demko, leading to a much better record. Yet still, at the same time, it also does appear that Martin, while not putting up impressive numbers, is also playing better than Demko. Demko has a GAA of 3.87 and save % of .883, which is close, but worse than Martin at a GAA of 3.49 and a save percentage of .898. Interestingly, things become more murky with advanced stats, though keep in mind that Martin has some small samples. in 5v5 play, Demko has a high danger save % of .825, which actually outpaces Martin's .810. Contrast this with Demko's regular 5v5 save % of .911 vs Martin's .917. As you might expect based on this, Demko is also being beat more often on long-range shots than Martin is, with an average goal distance of 19.77 vs Martin's 15.50. This means that Demko is likely making more difficult saves than Martin, but also letting in more "softies" (stats from Natural Stat Trick). These same results prove true when looking solely at 4v5 PK. Martin has a higher save percentage of .792 to Demko's .750, but Demko's goals tend to come against from further away. Both goaltenders have the same high-danger save percentage on the PK. In sum, I think the answer to this question is a bit complicated, but it does seem like a reasonable conclusion to say that Martin is playing better than Demko. To be more precise, Martin is more generally reliable, but if you need a really big and difficult save, Demko is probably still your man. Much of the frustration with Demko may be because, at least according to the statistics, he appears to be letting in more "softies", which fans are more likely to recall than the few difficult and impressive saves he makes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 2 hours ago, -AJ- said: Not sure if this fits better in the Demko thread or Martin thread, but it pertains to both. On one hand I hear some fans showing Martin's 4-1-1 record and comparing it to Demko's 2-9-2 record and noting how much better Martin is. On the other hand, you have fans pointing out how much more goal support Martin has had in his games and claim that he is also playing poorly. I believe both are true. Martin's record is substantially better than Demko's, but he has definitely had more goal support. In his six games, Martin has seen the team in front of him score at a rate of roughly 4.82 goals/60 minutes. Demko has played in 13 games and during those games, the Canucks have scored at a rate of drastically lower rate of 2.82 goals/60 minutes. There's no question that Martin has received far more goal support than Demko, leading to a much better record. Yet still, at the same time, it also does appear that Martin, while not putting up impressive numbers, is also playing better than Demko. Demko has a GAA of 3.87 and save % of .883, which is close, but worse than Martin at a GAA of 3.49 and a save percentage of .898. Interestingly, things become more murky with advanced stats, though keep in mind that Martin has some small samples. in 5v5 play, Demko has a high danger save % of .825, which actually outpaces Martin's .810. Contrast this with Demko's regular 5v5 save % of .911 vs Martin's .917. As you might expect based on this, Demko is also being beat more often on long-range shots than Martin is, with an average goal distance of 19.77 vs Martin's 15.50. This means that Demko is likely making more difficult saves than Martin, but also letting in more "softies" (stats from Natural Stat Trick). These same results prove true when looking solely at 4v5 PK. Martin has a higher save percentage of .792 to Demko's .750, but Demko's goals tend to come against from further away. Both goaltenders have the same high-danger save percentage on the PK. In sum, I think the answer to this question is a bit complicated, but it does seem like a reasonable conclusion to say that Martin is playing better than Demko. To be more precise, Martin is more generally reliable, but if you need a really big and difficult save, Demko is probably still your man. Much of the frustration with Demko may be because, at least according to the statistics, he appears to be letting in more "softies", which fans are more likely to recall than the few difficult and impressive saves he makes. Vancouver has always been a market ready to chew up and burn a goalie in a flip of a switch. Luongo is one of the best examples of this. We are a market that loves aa good back up goalie controversy. My look on the goalies situation which isn't as quantatiive as your look but still connects is: Demko started the year off as aa goalie coming off surgery and like the majority of our team outside of Pettersson not on his A Game. BUT I think his level of play was of that of average goaltending. He was playing like an average NHL tender in a very poor bottom 5 defensive environment. The defensive breakdowns, 2 on 1s, breakaways, shorthanded chances against, passive PK, passive puck pressure, turnovers, high danger scoring chances against etc were all pretty lopsided in the majority of the games. What was required of DEMKO to win was tough. He would have had to play like he did last season at a Vezina level for us to have won more games. We scored goals then just shutoff in front of him. Now for any goalie that is tough, and to do it as a starter playing the majority of the games, with teams heavily game planning against you now that they have more than a full season of game tape to analyze you thats tough. And I believe Demko is mentally struggling. He is back stopping mentally fragile group that isn't playing well defensively or when things dont go there way. They aren't playing confidently with the lead. Now as a goalie I think that is hard play behind. If guys aren't back checking, if guys are taking terrible penalties, if guys rent blocking shots or showing pride in there game defensively and only care about their offensive status thats tough for a goalie to watch. And add in all the losing, I think Demko has lost a degree of confidence in himself, and the team is losing their confidence in him right now too. I dont think Demko cost us aa game until maybe, maybe Montreal and even then we did him absolutely no favours with penalties and I think we got outworked and Montreal showed more heart then us and wanted to win more. Boston was just a tough tough game, I think we lose that game with any goalie in net. And this VGK game honestly Demko played unreal until the very end but he was getting peppered with cross seam high danger scoring chances. We cannot defend the cross seem pass at all. Horvat and Bo are atrocious defensively 5v5. Stillman and Myers are just a horrible pairing eye test and with the numbers. OEL sucks I dont care what the numbers say about his play he looks horrible out there and isn't moving the needle in the right direction for us right now. It was tough. I dont want to blame Demko completely but the end of that game jus cemented he's mentally in tough right now and im not sure many goalies could keep up sustained success playing with our defence in front of them. Now Martin, has not been elite by any means. In my opinion his level of goal tending was similar or worse to demkos for the most part. His first few games were very clearly against much lessor competition and we still required HEAVY GOAL support. All except of Pit. Which was our best total team game against a travelling penguins team that was struggling on a bad losing streak. Toronto though I would say Martin did play very well and was big during a part of the game we needed him to be to give us a chance, and we still lost. Now at this point everyone calling for Demkos head needs to Tkachuk a step back and realize we reverse Martins starts with demkos and our record would probably be very similar to what it is now and Martins Confidence would probably be the one rocked right now. I do think Martins best advantage is teams cant really prepare for him as they don't have much tape on him. And he's really new to the league so he's got a level of excitement and everything is new and exciting. I am okay with giving him more starts right now to try and help Demko rebuild his confidence with Clarke but I will not be surprised if even if Martin gets hot on aa streak if he ends up getting worn out and lit up heavily just like demo does at a certain point. VGK goal tender did not outperform Demko and we still lost. He mad much less high danger scoring chance saves and we scored 4 goals on him. VGK does not need elite / heroic goaltending to win. we do. If anything we should be happy Demko is struggling right now to performa at his highest level, as its lifting the beer goggles offer teams evaluators and they get to see who / what we really are. And that is a team with many holes that need to be fixed to be a serious playoff team. I just wish our market would understand that goalies need support. It is an extremely difficult position mentally and Demko is in a very tough environment on our team and in our market. He is very talented, hard working and deserves aa better outcome right now. I believe in him to pull through the other side. If you read my lengthy post bless! I think we agree in our end summary. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjr Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Any update if they are going to amputate his leg. I used to think this guy was the second coming of Christmas....This year has been bleepin brutal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 minute ago, danjr said: Any update if they are going to amputate his leg. I used to think this guy was the second coming of Christmas....This year has been bleepin brutal. Sounds like Demko was still recovering from the injury at the end of last season and trying to play through it. Maybe this was inevitable? Surgery might be the only way to heal him up proper and then we have him for next season at 100%. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 Anyone have any recent news on Demko? Is it true he might be out longer than 6 weeks? I don't see this goaltending tandem carrying the load for the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 19 minutes ago, johngould21 said: Anyone have any recent news on Demko? Is it true he might be out longer than 6 weeks? I don't see this goaltending tandem carrying the load for the season. I haven't heard anything beyond the 6 weeks announcement. I'm with you though; the current goaltending tandem will likely have a very tough time of it. It's too bad about Thatch, as he seemed to be on the verge of getting his game back. Hopefully he will be fully recovered and ready to play this time. I would be surprised if this team isn't a top 5 draft pick this summer, but knowing the Canucks, they could very well bump it up to the usual 12-15 pick. Lovin' those mid 1st round picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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