Erik Gudbranson | #44 | D

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, Dungass said:

Thing about Gudbranson is, he ain't being paid 4 million a year to win the Norris.  He's being paid to be the "nuclear deterrent" on the team.  And he is hardly ever that.  That is my beef with him.  

I do find it strange that his play has dropped in aggressiveness since he came here. He was a terror in Florida. Here we've seen glimpses of it, but nowhere near the consistency he showed before. 

 

I'm not sure what to make of it. When he's on and engaged, he's as imposing as they come, but his consistency is what's lacking. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, Seinfeld said:

Am I the only one that love his patented rub-out hit when he follows his check up the half wall putting himself out of position but makes sure he presses himself against his check hard enough to make the end boards wobble a bit to draw 'oohs' and 'aahhs' from the casuals and a hard-earned hit on the stat sheet.

 

How the hell has Gudbranson made 30 million in the NHL so far and a far superior defenseman in Lukas Krajicek made only 4 million and finds himself out of the NHL.

No, but you're the only one obsessively posting about it in two threads like a jilted ex. 

[Phil_314]

I think today's stat line should be attributed at least partially to who his partners were, and sheer bad luck, as much as he should be faulted.

- of course, as the tallest and heaviest D-man he couldn't tie up Tavares' stick or muscle around for body position for the first goal against
- noticed he got walked around the outside by speedier guys

Then again, Pouliot getting beat by an AHL player shows his own deficiencies, as does Hutton's brain-farts in his turnover, and the last goal was unlucky with the skate deflection, and Marky let in a couple bad ones too.  Not to defend Guddy as he's part of the problem, but he's not the only issue out there on that porous back end.
 

[PhillipBlunt]

14 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

I think today's stat line should be attributed at least partially to who his partners were, and sheer bad luck, as much as he should be faulted.

- of course, as the tallest and heaviest D-man he couldn't tie up Tavares' stick or muscle around for body position for the first goal against
- noticed he got walked around the outside by speedier guys

Then again, Pouliot getting beat by an AHL player shows his own deficiencies, as does Hutton's brain-farts in his turnover, and the last goal was unlucky with the skate deflection, and Marky let in a couple bad ones too.  Not to defend Guddy as he's part of the problem, but he's not the only issue out there on that porous back end.
 

Agreed. When he's on his game, he's very effective, but he needs a veteran presence like Edler to help mentor him. He's 26. Eight months older than Hutton. He's not a seasoned blue-liner. 

 

Eriksson, on the other hand, was a floating uniform. 

[D-Money]

4 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Agreed. When he's on his game, he's very effective, but he needs a veteran presence like Edler to help mentor him. He's 26. Eight months older than Hutton. He's not a seasoned blue-liner. 

 

Holy hell - this is his EIGHTH season! 

 

How many seasons does it take to be "seasoned"???

[-AJ-]

At this point, I can see some gradual smaller improvements that might come in Guddy's game, but I don't expect any big changes. He'll be at best a #4 guy in his career and most of the time be a 5/6 guy. A shame we're paying $4M for him, but there are worse contracts out there. His physical presence is valuable to us for sure, but you can get that for less than $4M. 

[Boudrias]

6 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

I think today's stat line should be attributed at least partially to who his partners were, and sheer bad luck, as much as he should be faulted.

- of course, as the tallest and heaviest D-man he couldn't tie up Tavares' stick or muscle around for body position for the first goal against
- noticed he got walked around the outside by speedier guys

Then again, Pouliot getting beat by an AHL player shows his own deficiencies, as does Hutton's brain-farts in his turnover, and the last goal was unlucky with the skate deflection, and Marky let in a couple bad ones too.  Not to defend Guddy as he's part of the problem, but he's not the only issue out there on that porous back end.
 

Look how quickly the Laffers were breaking thru the neutral zone and getting in on the d-core. The defensemen either had to turn to recover the puck which meant ongoing possession battles or the Laffer forwards were coming in on outnumbered plays. A lot of 2:1 and 3:2 plays shook their confidence early. A lot of desperation zone clearance that generated little offence the other way. What happened in the Van d-zone was not all on Guddy or his partner Hutton.   

[Wolfgang Durst]

9 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

I think today's stat line should be attributed at least partially to who his partners were, and sheer bad luck, as much as he should be faulted.

- of course, as the tallest and heaviest D-man he couldn't tie up Tavares' stick or muscle around for body position for the first goal against
- noticed he got walked around the outside by speedier guys

Then again, Pouliot getting beat by an AHL player shows his own deficiencies, as does Hutton's brain-farts in his turnover, and the last goal was unlucky with the skate deflection, and Marky let in a couple bad ones too.  Not to defend Guddy as he's part of the problem, but he's not the only issue out there on that porous back end.
 

excellent observation.

Sounds like someone has to tell him how to use his stick in such situations.

The fact that speedier guys blew past him is well known, we have already seen this against Nashville on the first goal against.

[Wolfgang Durst]

12 hours ago, aGENT said:

A bad game and the haters come out...

Seriously?

The truth is: He had many such appearances.

Would like to hear from you the positives that you have seen in Guddy's game during this season.

The ability to use his fists?

The ability to lay his body on opponents?

Is this enough for a 1st rounder and 2nd pairing D-Man?

Now it's your turn to let me know the positives in Guddy's game as the basis for a further discussion.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Wolfgang Durst

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

Seriously?

The truth is: He had many such appearances.

Would like to hear from you the positives that you have seen in Guddy's game during this season.

The ability to use his fists?

The ability to lay his body on opponents?

Is this enough for a 1st rounder and 2nd pairing D-Man?

Now it's your turn to let me know the positives in Guddy's game as the basis for a further discussion.

Y'all don't want a discussion, you want a witch hunt and a scape goat for a bad game. Just like every loss. Tonight Guddy seems to be the scape goat du jour, other days it's Pouliot, MDZ or Eriksson. Early this year it was Marky (who suddenly everyone is in love with). Previous years Edler's been the 'cause' of all our woes 

 

Nobody's declaring him to be Niedermeyer 2.0. He's a good, physical second pair D who brings leadership, grit and solid 2nd pair level defensive play (PK, dzone starts etc).

 

If you want further views of mine on him, they're littered throughout this and other threads. Feel free to look them up.

Edited January 6, 2019 by aGENT

[ilduce39]

I like Guddy on the team.  

 

If we were built a little differently I could see him becoming redundant pretty quick but with Edler and Tanev as top dogs it’s nice to have a guy with a pulse and some grit playing second pairing.  He stands guys up at the line and can toss guys around in the corners.  It’s a missing element especially on the right side with Tanev and Stech, who are better with the puck but not especially physical.

 

He’s been referenced as a leader and the past few stinkers notwithstanding I love how this team plays overall this year.  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Guds really isn’t a 2nd pairing guy on this team though.  He was with the Panthers but we don’t have the same kind of defenseman he was paired up with in Florida.  Maybe once Hughes wears the Canucks jersey but that’s in the near future.  Right now, he’s a 3rd pairing guy on this roster with it’s present personnel.

[Kanukfanatic]

18 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

Is Gudbranson overpaid for what he brings offensively, yes. Fact is last TDL we likely had next to no  interest in him or the offers would've really made the trade to acquire him poor. My guess is a mid round pick was the best offer.

 

Erik Gudbranson to be is the D partner for Quinn Hughes his first couple years. He can hit and fight/protect. That is why he is here that is why we overpaid him at 4m per season. Fact is he brings an element to our team that we literally do NOT have.

 

He wont live up to the 4m salary per year, but I am happy he is on the team. Much rather watch him at 4m vs Eriksucks at 6m at a longer term too!

I think that Hughes will end up playing with Tanev and not Guddy. Tanev will be able to cover for Hughes roving D style of play. Gudbranson on his own back in our D end when Hughes takes off up the ice would probably be a disaster. Plus didn't the coach or JB mention Tanev would probably be here to play with Hughes?

 

However, Guddy I think should remain on this team as the #6 defender because, as you say, we need a big tough guy. He does not play D very well and he is over paid but as McCann stated "it is what it is". 

 

How about:

 

Edler / Karlsson 

Hughes / Tanev

Juolevi / Gubranson

Biega

 

I know it is wishful thinking. It replaces half of our D core with new players (1 superstar and 2 rookies with high hopes!!).

 

If nothing else, most nights it would probably be very fun to watch.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Kanukfanatic

[ilduce39]

6 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Guds really isn’t a 2nd pairing guy on this team though.  He was with the Panthers but we don’t have the same kind of defenseman he was paired up with in Florida.  Maybe once Hughes wears the Canucks jersey but that’s in the near future.  Right now, he’s a 3rd pairing guy on this roster with it’s present personnel.

Stech has averaged about 17 minutes and Guddy 19 this year, Tanev 20 (and a half).

 

(Edler 23, Hutton 21 and Pouliot 18 for reference)

 

So matchups aside, they’re sharing the load pretty equally.  Ben and Erik have the least impressive stats but you’d have to think they’re doing heavier lifting than Troy and Derrick.  They are getting beat up a bit though.

 

Will be be interesting to see who Hughes plays with but Guddy would be a nice fit if different strengths can complement each other.

[aGENT]

15 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Stech has averaged about 17 minutes and Guddy 19 this year, Tanev 20 (and a half).

 

(Edler 23, Hutton 21 and Pouliot 18 for reference)

 

So matchups aside, they’re sharing the load pretty equally.  Ben and Erik have the least impressive stats but you’d have to think they’re doing heavier lifting than Troy and Derrick.  They are getting beat up a bit though.

 

Will be be interesting to see who Hughes plays with but Guddy would be a nice fit if different strengths can complement each other.

Haven't looked particularly closely this year but last year, high D zone starts, PK time and generally harder usage.

 

Like a Beagle or Sutter on F, his job isn't really to create offense. He's there to play the situations you don't want the offensive players getting tired out/beaten up on. He's there to play the hard minutes and take the hit on statistics, so they don't have to.

[Duodenum]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

He's a good, physical second pair D who brings leadership, grit and solid 2nd pair level defensive play (PK, dzone starts etc).

1

Sigh, if only this were true. 

 

Guddy really didn't develop at all since coming from Florida.

 

He's been on the ice for 40 goals against at even strength, basically double the amounts of Stetcher, Edler, Tanev, and even Pouliot. Sure, he faces better competition than Stetcher and Pouliot but that only matters if you actually perform. Getting destroyed in your own zone is not an excuse for "dzone starts".

 

Even the worst teams in the league don't have defensemen with ratios that bad. Dion Phaneuf comes close and we all know how god awful he is. 

 

He's a defensive defenseman who can't prevent goals against. He's by far the worst at the team at it. That's with facing 2nd liners. If that wasn't enough, he handcuffs the team offensively when he's out there as well. Solid defensive play doesn't lead to doubling everyone else in goals against. It's not a one year anomaly either. 

 

He's seventh in the entire league in goals against as a defenseman and every defenseman ahead of him has more minutes played.

That is not solid defensive play.

 

He has the worst ratio of Goals for to goals against in the entire league.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Duodenum

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Duodenum said:

Sigh, if only this were true. 

 

Guddy really didn't develop at all since coming from Florida.

 

He's been on the ice for 40 goals against at even strength, basically double the amounts of Stetcher, Edler, Tanev, and even Pouliot. Sure, he faces better competition than Stetcher and Pouliot but that only matters if you actually perform. Getting destroyed in your own zone is not an excuse for "dzone starts".

 

Even the worst teams in the league don't have defensemen with ratios that bad. Dion Phaneuf comes close and we all know how god awful he is. 

 

He's a defensive defenseman who can't prevent goals against. He's by far the worst at the team at it. That's with facing 2nd liners. If that wasn't enough, he handcuffs the team offensively when he's out there as well. Solid defensive play doesn't lead to doubling everyone else in goals against. It's not a one year anomaly either. 

His injury issues since arriving here haven't helped. Nor have the constant injuries to the other defensive players on the team who would help in the dzone (Tanev, Edler, Sutter, Beagle etc).

 

Then there's the fact we haven't been a very good (rebuilding) team on top of that and your not going to get rosy numbers. It's a team game and when your team isn't very good AND it's injured AND those injuries are to your hard minute players, it's not a recipe for good stats. Particularly for defense oriented players.

 

How do you think Stecher or Pouliot would fare in that situation?

 

Hint: even worse.

[Duodenum]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

His injury issues since arriving here haven't helped. Nor have the constant injuries to the other defensive players on the team who would help in the dzone (Tanev, Edler, Sutter, Beagle etc).

 

Then there's the fact we haven't been a very good (rebuilding) team on top of that and your not going to get rosy numbers. It's a team game and when your team isn't very good AND it's injured AND those injuries are to your hard minute players, it's not a recipe for good stats. Particularly for defense oriented players.

 

How do you think Stecher or Pouliot would fare in that situation?

 

Hint: even worse.

 

None of this helps Gudbranson's case at all. 

 

What's his excuse this year when the Canucks are just below .500?

 

There's a lot of teams worse than ours this year yet his stats stay the same. Can't keep the puck out of the net, can't put it in the opposition's net. 

 

Why don't defensemen on even the worst teams in the league perform as poorly as he does?

 

IMO, Stetcher is a far better defenseman than Gudbranson, is much more effective on the ice, and would do a much better job than him. 

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

 

None of this helps Gudbranson's case at all. 

 

What's his excuse this year when the Canucks are just below .500?

 

There's a lot of teams worse than ours this year yet his stats stay the same. Can't keep the puck out of the net, can't put it in the opposition's net. 

 

Why don't defensemen on even the worst teams in the league perform as poorly as he does?

 

IMO, Stetcher is a far better defenseman than Gudbranson, is much more effective on the ice, and would do a much better job than him. 

First ~500 isn't exactly a 'good' record.

 

And because:

 

37 minutes ago, aGENT said:

He's there to play the hard minutes and take the hit on statistics, so they don't have to.

 

And perhaps you missed the long periods of time where Sutter, Beagle, Tanev and Edler where injured this season? 

 

Again, nobody is claiming he is Niedermayer. He's a second pair, defensive D that has played the last few seasons under anything but ideal conditions, including his own injuries and whose job it is to take the hit on statistics so other players, who would fair FAR worse under those same conditions, don't have to.

 

If Stecher was able to play those situations, he would be. There's a reason the coaching staff tries to avoid putting him in those positions and that he plays less minutes. Sorry that (reality) doesn't suit your narrative.

Edited January 6, 2019 by aGENT

[ilduce39]

16 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

 

None of this helps Gudbranson's case at all. 

 

What's his excuse this year when the Canucks are just below .500?

 

There's a lot of teams worse than ours this year yet his stats stay the same. Can't keep the puck out of the net, can't put it in the opposition's net. 

 

Why don't defensemen on even the worst teams in the league perform as poorly as he does?

 

IMO, Stetcher is a far better defenseman than Gudbranson, is much more effective on the ice, and would do a much better job than him. 

It’s funny that the coaching staff obviously don’t share that opinion... they see all the same stats we do plus a crap ton of video analysis.

 

They waived Gagner so the veteran or contract angle doesn’t work as a narrative as to why he’s with the club.

 

I find the fancy stats tend to undersell players like Gudbranson. On a whim I

googled a guy like Vlasic from San Jose.  2.6 GF 3.8 GA.  Guddy is 2.0 GF 3.7 GA. Is Vlasic better?  Sure.  But he also makes 7 mil for the next 8 seasons.  

 

His GF/GA stats look like trash but any team in the league would take him.

 

Point being, there’s more to breaking down Gudbranson’s game than the numbers.