Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Rob_Zepp]

On 9/20/2018 at 11:03 AM, Major Canucks Fan said:

I don't know what everyone here is whining about and I usually don't post but had to chime in. I was actually at the game last night and watched Juolevi closely. So he made about 25 to 30 plays total the entire game. I count a play this way: 

 

1. Puck retrieval. Getting back to the puck and making a decision on where it goes. 

2. Pass

3. Breaking up plays, interceptions, takeaways

4. Battle along the boards

5. Pressure contain on odd man rushes.

 

The way you scout a player is this. 2 simple questions:

 

1. Did he make the best available decision given all information available to him.

2. Is he able to physically execute the play given the decision he made. 

 

So out of 25 to 30 plays, he probably made the absolute best choice about 80% of the time. And that is by far the best out of all of our d man last night. It wasn't even close. I watched the other d man and juolevi made the right reads far better than any defenceman. This included edler. Because sometimes when I was watching the other d man play I would ask what in the world were they thinking? Except Juolevi. Now, he did make a couple of blunders but nothing significant. The other 5 guys I can't say the same. And the blunders were more associated with 2. physical ability than 1. So where does he need to improve on? He needs to be stronger and faster is the issue. His reads are impeccable but sometimes he isn't able to execute it. For example, there was a play whereby his physical positioning of stick and body was perfect to separate guy from puck but he couldn't do it because he wasn't strong enough. But I think that part will come. 

 

Now, here are things that you miss when you are not watching live. He was one of the few defenceman who understood sometimes the best play was to let a puck go by you to the other guy. He used small touch passes to diffuse hard situations. His stick positioning was great. On odd man rushes he was able to defend two guys at once and diffuse the situation whereas our other guys would just leave guys wide open (see just about every dman other than him). Also notice the number of odd man rushes that came against the canucks, very few came while he was on the ice. 

 

Lastly, on two passes to gudbranson he made the same pass but at two different speeds. That is impressive. One he zipped because he correctly calculated the interception distance and on another he feathered because he knew it would help gudbranson with his shot. 

 

All in all a very good game. Btw, if you didn't think he had a good game, look at the stats. How many goals was he on the ice against? He somehow made gudbranson look good which was actually really impressive cause every time gudbranson handled the puck the entire stadium could see that it was like he was handling a live grenade. 

It is a pleasure to read a post from someone who actually analyzes the game through logic versus emotion and a stat sheet.   My guess is you either played or coached to a decent level.   

[AK_19]

5 minutes ago, City-in-state-of-emergency said:

Read it on London Free Press not sure if it's incredible source but it noted that Oli was sent back.

 

https://lfpress.com/sports/hockey/junior-hockey/five-things-to-follow-in-the-knights-2018-19-season

From your article:
"The Canucks shipped Olli Juolevi back to Finland instead of London for a third season, so the Knights didn’t have any European players last season. "

They are talking about how Joulevi was sent to Finland instead of London LAST YEAR not THIS YEAR. 
 

[Rob_Zepp]

7 minutes ago, City-in-state-of-emergency said:

Read it on London Free Press not sure if it's incredible source but it noted that Oli was sent back.

 

https://lfpress.com/sports/hockey/junior-hockey/five-things-to-follow-in-the-knights-2018-19-season

You do realize they are talking about last year and his decision to turn professional and play in Finland versus another season in CHL....right?   You do realize that?

[City-in-state-of-emergency]

2 minutes ago, AK_19 said:

From your article:
"The Canucks shipped Olli Juolevi back to Finland instead of London for a third season, so the Knights didn’t have any European players last season. "

They are talking about how Joulevi was sent to Finland instead of London LAST YEAR not THIS YEAR. 
 

I read it stoned so shoot me but still my other points stands and it looks more likely he will be shipped

[AK_19]

11 minutes ago, City-in-state-of-emergency said:

I read it stoned so shoot me but still my other points stands and it looks more likely he will be shipped

Also in your defense, that article was written in a confusing manner.

[Kanukfanatic]

1 hour ago, City-in-state-of-emergency said:

I gotta say this prospect look DOA in my opinion. There is several other D prospects that went after him that has had more of a impact on their clubs. 

 

The most difficult thing in hockey is gaging defense. Erik karlsson went 15th in 08 4 other D went before him including Luke Schenn. Toronto could've had Erik Karlsson.

 

Hopefully im wrong but if not I hope we trade him while value is high for a top 6 forward. 

 

Yeah...he is 20 years old. He is a BUST!!!  

 

Pretty sure you are wrong.

[elvis15]

1 hour ago, City-in-state-of-emergency said:

I read it stoned so shoot me but still my other points stands and it looks more likely he will be shipped

"I was wrong but I'm still right so suck it."

 

Yeah, ok...

[Kanukfanatic]

1 hour ago, City-in-state-of-emergency said:

Read it on London Free Press not sure if it's incredible source but it noted that Oli was sent back.

 

https://lfpress.com/sports/hockey/junior-hockey/five-things-to-follow-in-the-knights-2018-19-season

Read it again. It says last season.

[Kanukfanatic]

1 hour ago, City-in-state-of-emergency said:

I read it stoned so shoot me but still my other points stands and it looks more likely he will be shipped

Another brilliant stoner lmao. Go hit the bong again.

 

Edit: shipped where? 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Kanukfanatic

[MoneypuckOverlord]

On 9/21/2018 at 1:03 AM, Major Canucks Fan said:

I don't know what everyone here is whining about and I usually don't post but had to chime in. I was actually at the game last night and watched Juolevi closely. So he made about 25 to 30 plays total the entire game. I count a play this way: 

 

1. Puck retrieval. Getting back to the puck and making a decision on where it goes. 

2. Pass

3. Breaking up plays, interceptions, takeaways

4. Battle along the boards

5. Pressure contain on odd man rushes.

 

The way you scout a player is this. 2 simple questions:

 

1. Did he make the best available decision given all information available to him.

2. Is he able to physically execute the play given the decision he made. 

 

So out of 25 to 30 plays, he probably made the absolute best choice about 80% of the time. And that is by far the best out of all of our d man last night. It wasn't even close. I watched the other d man and juolevi made the right reads far better than any defenceman. This included edler. Because sometimes when I was watching the other d man play I would ask what in the world were they thinking? Except Juolevi. Now, he did make a couple of blunders but nothing significant. The other 5 guys I can't say the same. And the blunders were more associated with 2. physical ability than 1. So where does he need to improve on? He needs to be stronger and faster is the issue. His reads are impeccable but sometimes he isn't able to execute it. For example, there was a play whereby his physical positioning of stick and body was perfect to separate guy from puck but he couldn't do it because he wasn't strong enough. But I think that part will come. 

 

Now, here are things that you miss when you are not watching live. He was one of the few defenceman who understood sometimes the best play was to let a puck go by you to the other guy. He used small touch passes to diffuse hard situations. His stick positioning was great. On odd man rushes he was able to defend two guys at once and diffuse the situation whereas our other guys would just leave guys wide open (see just about every dman other than him). Also notice the number of odd man rushes that came against the canucks, very few came while he was on the ice. 

 

Lastly, on two passes to gudbranson he made the same pass but at two different speeds. That is impressive. One he zipped because he correctly calculated the interception distance and on another he feathered because he knew it would help gudbranson with his shot. 

 

All in all a very good game. Btw, if you didn't think he had a good game, look at the stats. How many goals was he on the ice against? He somehow made gudbranson look good which was actually really impressive cause every time gudbranson handled the puck the entire stadium could see that it was like he was handling a live grenade. 

well said. People should know it's different to watch games live vs on t.v.  Now did he blow everyone's minds, absolutely not, not every 1st rounder that comes is a Pettersson and the entire defence didn't even play well heck the entire team played like crap that night.

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, City-in-state-of-emergency said:

I read it stoned so shoot me but still my other points stands and it looks more likely he will be shipped

Too much of a good thing bruh. 

[Qwags]

3 hours ago, City-in-state-of-emergency said:

I read it stoned so shoot me but still my other points stands and it looks more likely he will be shipped

Why would he be traded? Cause he's 20 and hasn't scored 50 points yet?

[Phat Fingers]

On 2018-09-13 at 10:36 AM, Hutton Wink said:

 

“I am not the flashiest player and my game, you kind of need to know hockey to see those little things when I do them right."

OJ seems to realize his critics might not ‘know hockey’... 

[GB5]

6 hours ago, City-in-state-of-emergency said:

I read it stoned so shoot me but still my other points stands and it looks more likely he will be shipped

No problem, no one should get too concerned...........unless they are trolls looking to try and make you feel bad or something...

Edited September 22, 2018 by GarthButcher5

[ReggieBush]

40 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

OJ seems to realize his critics might not ‘know hockey’... 

He's not wrong

[JamesB]

On 9/20/2018 at 11:03 AM, Major Canucks Fan said:

I don't know what everyone here is whining about and I usually don't post but had to chime in. I was actually at the game last night and watched Juolevi closely. So he made about 25 to 30 plays total the entire game. I count a play this way: 

 

1. Puck retrieval. Getting back to the puck and making a decision on where it goes. 

2. Pass

3. Breaking up plays, interceptions, takeaways

4. Battle along the boards

5. Pressure contain on odd man rushes.

 

The way you scout a player is this. 2 simple questions:

 

1. Did he make the best available decision given all information available to him.

2. Is he able to physically execute the play given the decision he made. 

 

So out of 25 to 30 plays, he probably made the absolute best choice about 80% of the time. And that is by far the best out of all of our d man last night. It wasn't even close. I watched the other d man and juolevi made the right reads far better than any defenceman. This included edler. Because sometimes when I was watching the other d man play I would ask what in the world were they thinking? Except Juolevi. Now, he did make a couple of blunders but nothing significant. The other 5 guys I can't say the same. And the blunders were more associated with 2. physical ability than 1. So where does he need to improve on? He needs to be stronger and faster is the issue. His reads are impeccable but sometimes he isn't able to execute it. For example, there was a play whereby his physical positioning of stick and body was perfect to separate guy from puck but he couldn't do it because he wasn't strong enough. But I think that part will come. 

 

Now, here are things that you miss when you are not watching live. He was one of the few defenceman who understood sometimes the best play was to let a puck go by you to the other guy. He used small touch passes to diffuse hard situations. His stick positioning was great. On odd man rushes he was able to defend two guys at once and diffuse the situation whereas our other guys would just leave guys wide open (see just about every dman other than him). Also notice the number of odd man rushes that came against the canucks, very few came while he was on the ice. 

 

Lastly, on two passes to gudbranson he made the same pass but at two different speeds. That is impressive. One he zipped because he correctly calculated the interception distance and on another he feathered because he knew it would help gudbranson with his shot. 

 

All in all a very good game. Btw, if you didn't think he had a good game, look at the stats. How many goals was he on the ice against? He somehow made gudbranson look good which was actually really impressive cause every time gudbranson handled the puck the entire stadium could see that it was like he was handling a live grenade. 

 

59 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

OJ seems to realize his critics might not ‘know hockey’... 

Very nice analysis by Major. But I don't think there has ever been much doubt that Juolevi is a smart player. He does make consistently good decisions. And there is also general agreement that the "he does the little things right" -- touch passes, stick positioning, gap control, etc.

 

The issue is more with the big things. Last year at the young stars and at camp he got turnstiled several times. He was in position -- trying to keep a tight gap, but the other guy was just too fast for him.

 

I have been watching this year. He has not been turnstiled -- but it has been close a few times. He has improved. And he is retaining a good gap (not too big). Another "big" thing is that he does not play a physical game and could improve both his shot and strength (as well as his skating speed and his quickness).  Also, I think fatigue is an issue sometimes. So Juolevi is a smarter player than Edler and makes fewer mistakes. But Edler is a much better D, better shot, more physical, more natural offensive agressiveness. And he can consistently put in 25 good minutes a night at the NHL level.  And, although Edler has slowed down, he has good gap control and makes a quick transition from skating backward to turning with an offensive player so he rarely gets turnstiled.

 

I still think Juolevi is a good prospect and I would rate him above Pouliot on the depth chart right now. On the basis of pure performance I would have him as 7th man. But of course the Canucks don't want him in the press box, so I think he will go Utica.

 

But I think he needs to continue working on the basic skills -- skating, shooting, strength. I don't think there is much doubt that he will be a decent third pairing NHL D by this time next year, maybe earlier. But I think there is a ways to go before matches expectations the Canucks had for him when he was drafted.

 

Some of OJ's critics do not "know hockey", but the same is true of some of his supporters. And, as for his critics, some of them do "know hockey". After all, he has not yet made the NHL, so presumably the Canuck coaches don't think he has an NHL skill set yet. And they do know hockey.

[canucklehead44]

In Toronto Leafs fans give me the hardest time about Olli Juolevi. This draft in particular we were picking from the OHL - Tkachuk, Sergachev, Chychrun the other potential picks. Plus who have Keller coming off of an outstanding rookie year. McAvoy adds salt to the wound. 

That said, is it justified? Major Canucks Fan broke down his game and he does a lot of little things right. Identifying this over the flashiness, big hits, and points is what separates real scouts from fans.

But on the topic of points, his season/playoffs in Finland were pretty good. He still played pro, but going to Europe while other guys jumped to the NHL made him drop off the radar a bit. 

In total he had a .53 PPG. Here are a few other dmen in their +2 draft eligible year with a few other draft eligible years thrown in:

Lindell - .12 PPG / .28 PPG NHL Career (27 points last season)
Vatanen - .55 PPG / .46 PPG NHL Career (28 points last season .34 - 0.50PPG )
Lydman - .29 PPG / .28 PPG career NHL
Pitkanen (+1 year) - .57 PPG / .53 PPG Career NHL
Niinimaa - .40PPG / .43 PPG career NHL
Timonen (+3) - .50 PPG / .515 PPG Career NHL 
Salo (+3) - .44 PPG / .39 PPG Career NHL 

 

A couple things to note:

1. There are way less Finnish players than I expected and that is looking to change. In 2017 there were 6 Finns selected in the first round. In 2016 there were four, with three in the top six. 

2. In the past Finnish defenseman seemed to get overlooked, with studs like Niinimaa, Timonen and Salo having long, solid careers despite being drafted in rounds that no longer exist. 

3. Another easy comparable is Olli Maata who played on the same team in the OHL. He had .52 PPG vs Juolevi who had .73 PPG. Maata has averaged .31 PPG in the NHL. 

4. The Finnish league is not an easy place to rack up points, and the PPG numbers are quite comparable in +2 and +3 years to the NHL. 

So lets first look at Maata. Juolevi had 40% higher production in the OHL - if that translates to the NHL he will average .44 PPG or 36 points/ 82 games. 

Next I am going to look at Finnish numbers. I am going to use Lindell's +3 year as he skews the stats, and I'd rather go conservative (.61 ppg). 

AVG PPG Finland = .48 
AVG PPG NHL = .42 
= -12.5%

.53 PPG - 12.5% = .46 PPG. 

So when we distill it down based on his performance to date, Juolevi is trending to be a 38 point per year defenseman, which is actually in line with what Sergachev and McAvoy did last year. Now they are young and should improve, but that doesn't see to always be the case with defenseman as we know with Hutton & Stecher. Maata for example has played four full seasons and his rookie campaign was his best. 

[Putgolzin]

Didn’t we draft Juolevi based on his pre-draft year when he racked up points dishing to high-end forwards in junior and at WJC?

And don’t we also have some high-end forwards that will soon be ready to be on the receiving end of some of that?

i really think that two years from now a lot of this hand-wringing is going to be forgotten

[Kootenay Gold]

45 minutes ago, nzan said:

Didn’t we draft Juolevi based on his pre-draft year when he racked up points dishing to high-end forwards in junior and at WJC?

And don’t we also have some high-end forwards that will soon be ready to be on the receiving end of some of that?

i really think that two years from now a lot of this hand-wringing is going to be forgotten

A lot of the fans on this board remind me of young children struggling to eat their supper because they are only focused on what is for dessert lol. We have some very good dessert's coming but we need to eat our supper first.

[higgyfan]

2 hours ago, canucklehead44 said:

In Toronto Leafs fans give me the hardest time about Olli Juolevi. This draft in particular we were picking from the OHL - Tkachuk, Sergachev, Chychrun the other potential picks. Plus who have Keller coming off of an outstanding rookie year. McAvoy adds salt to the wound. 

That said, is it justified? Major Canucks Fan broke down his game and he does a lot of little things right. Identifying this over the flashiness, big hits, and points is what separates real scouts from fans.

But on the topic of points, his season/playoffs in Finland were pretty good. He still played pro, but going to Europe while other guys jumped to the NHL made him drop off the radar a bit. 

In total he had a .53 PPG. Here are a few other dmen in their +2 draft eligible year with a few other draft eligible years thrown in:

Lindell - .12 PPG / .28 PPG NHL Career (27 points last season)
Vatanen - .55 PPG / .46 PPG NHL Career (28 points last season .34 - 0.50PPG )
Lydman - .29 PPG / .28 PPG career NHL
Pitkanen (+1 year) - .57 PPG / .53 PPG Career NHL
Niinimaa - .40PPG / .43 PPG career NHL
Timonen (+3) - .50 PPG / .515 PPG Career NHL 
Salo (+3) - .44 PPG / .39 PPG Career NHL 

 

A couple things to note:

1. There are way less Finnish players than I expected and that is looking to change. In 2017 there were 6 Finns selected in the first round. In 2016 there were four, with three in the top six. 

2. In the past Finnish defenseman seemed to get overlooked, with studs like Niinimaa, Timonen and Salo having long, solid careers despite being drafted in rounds that no longer exist. 

3. Another easy comparable is Olli Maata who played on the same team in the OHL. He had .52 PPG vs Juolevi who had .73 PPG. Maata has averaged .31 PPG in the NHL. 

4. The Finnish league is not an easy place to rack up points, and the PPG numbers are quite comparable in +2 and +3 years to the NHL. 

So lets first look at Maata. Juolevi had 40% higher production in the OHL - if that translates to the NHL he will average .44 PPG or 36 points/ 82 games. 

Next I am going to look at Finnish numbers. I am going to use Lindell's +3 year as he skews the stats, and I'd rather go conservative (.61 ppg). 

AVG PPG Finland = .48 
AVG PPG NHL = .42 
= -12.5%

.53 PPG - 12.5% = .46 PPG. 

So when we distill it down based on his performance to date, Juolevi is trending to be a 38 point per year defenseman, which is actually in line with what Sergachev and McAvoy did last year. Now they are young and should improve, but that doesn't see to always be the case with defenseman as we know with Hutton & Stecher. Maata for example has played four full seasons and his rookie campaign was his best. 

Nicely put, C44!  Just like to add that Salo recently commented that Juolevi reminds him of Timonen (who was a teammate).  I think all Canuck fans would be delighted to see that come about.